Filed under: ADHD Symptoms
Question:
04/26/07: Today’s question is being brought to you by our very own Anon poster 
Comfort food of choice? Jackie ~*~No matter where you go or what you do, you live your entire life within the confines of your head~*~ – Terry Josephson — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm
Response:
04/26/07: Today’s question is being brought to you by our very own Anon poster Comfort food of choice? Jackie ~*~No matter where you go or what you do, you live your entire life within the confines of your head~*~ – Terry Josephson
Chips and dip, soda, pizza, Mexican food.. Sally — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm
Response:
pizza d
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – 04/26/07: Today’s question is being brought to you by our very own Anon poster Comfort food of choice? Jackie ~*~No matter where you go or what you do, you live your entire life within the confines of your head~*~ - Terry Josephson — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm
– The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm
Response:
Chips, chocolate, ice cream, pizza… The list is endless…<g smiles, Elise
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – 04/26/07: Today’s question is being brought to you by our very own Anon poster Comfort food of choice? Jackie ~*~No matter where you go or what you do, you live your entire life within the confines of your head~*~ - Terry Josephson — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm
– The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm
Response:
04/26/07: Today’s question is being brought to you by our very own Anon poster Comfort food of choice?
Based on everyone’s responses so far, I’m guessing a pizza party is in order, here. :~) kili — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm
Response:
Today’s question is being brought to you by our very own Anon poster Comfort food of choice?
Definitely pizza would be #1 for me. Smartfood Popcorn – but NOT the low-fat version. (Wouldn’t that count as a vegetable? Corn in any form?) Pan cakes! (What a delivery system for maple syrup!) Hot Earl Grey Tea on cool rainy days (like today). Hershey’s Kisses made with "Dark Chocolate." (They offer a healthy benefit of lowering your blood pressure?) I could go on – but – I need to get to the kitchen and find some popcorn and tea! Tom — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm
Response:
Hi, Tom, "Pan cakes! (What a delivery system for maple syrup!)" – Cute. Now I’m hungry for pancakes…<vbg smiles, Elise
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Today’s question is being brought to you by our very own Anon poster Comfort food of choice? Definitely pizza would be #1 for me. Smartfood Popcorn – but NOT the low-fat version. (Wouldn’t that count as a vegetable? Corn in any form?) Pan cakes! (What a delivery system for maple syrup!) Hot Earl Grey Tea on cool rainy days (like today). Hershey’s Kisses made with "Dark Chocolate." (They offer a healthy benefit of lowering your blood pressure?) I could go on – but – I need to get to the kitchen and find some popcorn and tea! Tom — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm
– The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm
Response:
04/26/07: Today’s question is being brought to you by our very own Anon poster Comfort food of choice? Jackie
Anything chocolate — _TJ_ <TJ_IREL at YAHOO dot IE — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm
Response:
Pizza Di
04/26/07: Today’s question is being brought to you by our very own Anon poster Comfort food of choice? Jackie
– The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm
Response:
I gotta be honest – Elise – I went and got some Smartfood Popcorn before I could write my answer!! Talk about planting a seed and the strength of comfort foods on our habits!
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, Tom, "Pan cakes! (What a delivery system for maple syrup!)" – Cute. Now I’m hungry for pancakes…<vbg smiles, Elise Today’s question is being brought to you by our very own Anon poster Comfort food of choice? Definitely pizza would be #1 for me. Smartfood Popcorn – but NOT the low-fat version. (Wouldn’t that count as a vegetable? Corn in any form?) Pan cakes! (What a delivery system for maple syrup!) Hot Earl Grey Tea on cool rainy days (like today). Hershey’s Kisses made with "Dark Chocolate." (They offer a healthy benefit of lowering your blood pressure?) I could go on – but – I need to get to the kitchen and find some popcorn and tea! Tom — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm
– The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm
Response:
04/26/07: Today’s question is being brought to you by our very own Anon poster Comfort food of choice?
Pizza. Best Wishes, Arthur — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I gotta be honest – Elise –
Question:
LOL! Ok- so that’s what the psychologist at the pain centre feels after a 45 minute appointment: I was too focused it seems….. http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/06/29/duckrabbit.jpg I’d be worried if I had a rabbit resembling that!
And there I was, imagining it to be a duck. … Cordially, RL
Response:
LOL! Ok- so that’s what the psychologist at the pain centre feels after a 45 minute appointment: I was too focused it seems. AAAAARRRRRRRGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHH.
My reaction exactly. Sigh.
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – LOL! Ok- so that’s what the psychologist at the pain centre feels after a 45 minute appointment: I was too focused it seems. I take it that you were not on any ADD meds at the time. Nope, just 0.25mg of IR Xanax(panic disorder): I’d forgotten to renew my Xanax XR prescription and Monday the doc’s office was shut. I have *tried* Ritalin but wasn’t comfortable with the eerie quietness in my head.
And you don’t have ADD. *snort* <sorry Priscilla, who falls asleep on amphetamines
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – LOL! Ok- so that’s what the psychologist at the pain centre feels after a 45 minute appointment: I was too focused it seems. AAAAARRRRRRRGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHH. It used to be possible to purchase cluebats from userfriendly.org, but they seem to be discontinued. I refer folks to this URL when obviously necessary: http://www.hasbro.com/forms/orderform.cfm?prod=Clue&sku=00045 One of these days I’m going to order some spare card decks to give out to the clueless at appropriate times!
Heh. Bob, you may have noticed that my brain tends to work in rather strange ways. And, sometimes my brain makes odd connections–especially when I read a page from the bottom up, as I sometimes do. I clicked on your URL, and saw the order form which included: red die, envelopes, and weapons. My mind started traveling along this path: OK. red dye, envelopes…red dye is used by banks…but why the envelopes? for the bank to put the money and red dye in, before it hands over the money to a bank robber? But what about the weapons? Would a bank just order "weapons" online like that? And why would the bank need cards, to tell the banker, "Thanks. We appreciate your business, please call again."? Then, after puzzling over this for a few seconds, I finally realized what the site was selling. Duh, Nancy. Nancy Unique, like everyone else
Response:
LOL! Ok- so that’s what the psychologist at the pain centre feels after a 45 minute appointment: I was too focused it seems. AAAAARRRRRRRGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHH. My reaction exactly. Sigh.
There’s hope yet: the pain centre’s take on pain is that they aren’t concerned with the "why" or "how" of it, just how to handle the symptoms as well as possible. Maybe they’ll be able to stretch that to cover my ADHD symptoms too, eh? Vashti
Response:
I refer folks to this URL when obviously necessary: http://www.hasbro.com/forms/orderform.cfm?prod=Clue&sku=00045 One of these days I’m going to order some spare card decks to give out to the clueless at appropriate times!
<puts away Magic(TM) cards Hmmm… might scare less people with those! Vashti
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – LOL! Ok- so that’s what the psychologist at the pain centre feels after a 45 minute appointment: I was too focused it seems. I take it that you were not on any ADD meds at the time. Nope, just 0.25mg of IR Xanax(panic disorder): I’d forgotten to renew my Xanax XR prescription and Monday the doc’s office was shut. I have *tried* Ritalin but wasn’t comfortable with the eerie quietness in my head. And you don’t have ADD. *snort* <sorry
<g Well I *had* forgotten to tell the bloke I’d er- forgotten my Xanax XR prescription too, LOL! Priscilla, who falls asleep on amphetamines
Coffee for me. Vashti
Response:
LOL! Ok- so that’s what the psychologist at the pain centre feels after a 45 minute appointment: I was too focused it seems….. http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/06/29/duckrabbit.jpg I’d be worried if I had a rabbit resembling that! And there I was, imagining it to be a duck. …
It isn’t a duck: I turned my sound way up and there was no quack to be heard. It’s a bunny alright. Deformed rabbit anyone?<g Vashti
Response:
<snipped Priscilla, who falls asleep on amphetamines Coffee for me.
You, too, eh? I can drink an entire pot and go to sleep. Kitten
Response:
It isn’t a duck: I turned my sound way up and there was no quack to be heard. It’s a bunny alright. Deformed rabbit anyone?<g
It’s a ‘duck’, Vashti. Get over it. Sheesh. Cordially, RL
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Heh. Bob, you may have noticed that my brain tends to work in rather strange ways. And, sometimes my brain makes odd connections–especially when I read a page from the bottom up, as I sometimes do. I clicked on your URL, and saw the order form which included: red die, envelopes, and weapons. My mind started traveling along this path: OK. red dye, envelopes…red dye is used by banks…but why the envelopes? for the bank to put the money and red dye in, before it hands over the money to a bank robber? But what about the weapons? Would a bank just order "weapons" online like that? And why would the bank need cards, to tell the banker, "Thanks. We appreciate your business, please call again."? Then, after puzzling over this for a few seconds, I finally realized what the site was selling. Duh, Nancy.
OK, when I get "a round tuit", I’ll send you the first card in the deck — Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L To reply, there’s no internet on Mars (yet)! <<< Kaplow Klips & Baffle: http://nira-rocketry.org/Document/MayJun00.pdf www.encompasserve.org/~kaplow_r/ www.nira-rocketry.org www.nar.org S&T is becoming this decades Steve Weaver!
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Heh. Bob, you may have noticed that my brain tends to work in rather strange ways. And, sometimes my brain makes odd connections–especially when I read a page from the bottom up, as I sometimes do. I clicked on your URL, and saw the order form which included: red die, envelopes, and weapons. My mind started traveling along this path: OK. red dye, envelopes…red dye is used by banks…but why the envelopes? for the bank to put the money and red dye in, before it hands over the money to a bank robber? But what about the weapons? Would a bank just order "weapons" online like that? And why would the bank need cards, to tell the banker, "Thanks. We appreciate your business, please call again."? Then, after puzzling over this for a few seconds, I finally realized what the site was selling. Duh, Nancy. OK, when I get "a round tuit", I’ll send you the first card in the deck
That would be great. I’ll then be able to get one of those t-shirts that say, "Unlike you, I have a clue." Nancy Unique, like everyone else
Response:
That would be great. I’ll then be able to get one of those t-shirts that say, "Unlike you, I have a clue."
MothWrangler ’speak’ … Just a wee bit of post-editing to clean things up a bit ( see below ) … That would be great. I’ll then be able to get one of those t-shirts that say, "I have a clue." :-)
)
Response:
That would be great. I’ll then be able to get one of those t-shirts that say, "Unlike you, I have a clue."
Hey, do you think that they stock a t-shirt that fits the RL? The one that says: "Unlike you, I understand what you are saying."
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Heh. Bob, you may have noticed that my brain tends to work in rather strange ways. And, sometimes my brain makes odd connections–especially when I read a page from the bottom up, as I sometimes do. I clicked on your URL, and saw the order form which included: red die, envelopes, and weapons. My mind started traveling along this path: OK. red dye, envelopes…red dye is used by banks…but why the envelopes? for the bank to put the money and red dye in, before it hands over the money to a bank robber? But what about the weapons? Would a bank just order "weapons" online like that? And why would the bank need cards, to tell the banker, "Thanks. We appreciate your business, please call again."? Then, after puzzling over this for a few seconds, I finally realized what the site was selling. Duh, Nancy. OK, when I get "a round tuit", I’ll send you the first card in the deck That would be great. I’ll then be able to get one of those t-shirts that say, "Unlike you, I have a clue."
Bob, Lest you misunderstand: the "you" on the t-shirt doesn’t refer to you. It’s just one of those goofy slogan t-shirts my kids are so fond of. After all, you will have more clues than I have, at least until you pass them all out. Nancy Unique, like everyone else
Response:
Bob, Lest you misunderstand: the "you" on the t-shirt doesn’t refer to you. It’s just one of those goofy slogan t-shirts my kids are so fond of. After all, you will have more clues than I have, at least until you pass them all out.
Re-act much, MothWrangler? You ARE the Goddess of Cluefullness … … that is who you are; … that is what you care about; … that is what you do so well; … that is your strength. I am unworthy of you. The only ‘clue’ that the RL possesses is the ‘ possibility ‘ that I *might* be able to "Understand what you are saying".
Response:
That would be great. I’ll then be able to get one of those t-shirts that say, "Unlike you, I have a clue." Bob, Lest you misunderstand: the "you" on the t-shirt doesn’t refer to you. It’s just one of those goofy slogan t-shirts my kids are so fond of. After all, you will have more clues than I have, at least until you pass them all out.
A fine example of the ‘Wizard of Oz’ Reality. * The lion who is afraid; who lacks courage … * The hydaulic, fluid belmouth of a ‘tin man’; who lacks a heart, a "pump" … * The intellectual, ever thinking, never speaking, forever procrastinating, straw headed ‘Scare-crow’ who lacks a brain … * MothWrangler, the Goddess of Cluefullness who … Bob, Lest you misunderstand: the "you" on the t-shirt doesn’t refer to you. It’s just one of those goofy slogan t-shirts my kids are so fond of. After all, you will have more clues than I have, at least until you pass them all out.
Clued into the "Wizard of Oz" yet, MothWrangler? It would be an honor and my pleasure to walk you through it … The lion is hyper-sensitive and hyper-aware on issues of courage-and-bravery. I mean lions are rilly, rilly into to fearsome, ferocious, bravery. … It’s the *only* thing that they think about, .. it’s the only thing which they care about, … Courage is what the lion DOES in life. … "Courage is what DEFINES the lion" No matter how capable or incompetent any joe-average lion might be. … a non-lion can be strongly confident in assuming/trusting that the "lion" does the ‘courage routine’ far, far, far better than a non-lion. Even hopelessly neurotic lions are far more courageous than non-lions. How come the courageous lion is a whiney, kiss-ass, crybaby, passive-aggressive martyr, eh? Why does the lion insist upon being a snivelling wimp who is completely wrapped up in himself? Heck, Baum wrote a whole book, *attempting* to explain this …. and failed miserably. Let’s not stop there, … Baum wrote books and books and books of childrens stories in a desperate attempt to get his message across and still ‘fucked up’ :- WHY IS THE LION A WHINING CRYBABY, MOTHWRANGLER? … Got a clue, eh? Sure you do. … The lion’s strenght is courage … the lion’s hypersensitivity is courage, .. the lion cares about courage. Implicitly, when it comes to any other issue the " lion " is as useless as tits on a bull. … but when it comes to ‘courage’ the lion is king. So it’s only natural that a lion doubts himself … it’s only natural that a lion is overly concerned that he doesn’t may not *quite* have sufficient courage. It’s only natural that a lion dies a thousand deaths when he discoveres that he has overestimated his own ability in the courage department *without realizing it*. In short, the lion is insecure with being himself. … Which ,of course, is ridiculous because even the most piss poor, mangey, wimpy lion is head-and-shoulders better than anyone else in the courage department. …GUARANTEED !!! It’s exactly the same way with any person. A child is insecure, unskilled, in knowing his or her ’self’. The activity of development growth and maturity is more-or-less about figuring out who one "is"; what one does well; learning how to make use of that individual skill in a broad range of situations; learning to seek out and embrace those situations for which one is best suited and avoid and/or defer with regard to those other situations for which one is a dense, thick headed klutz. … learning to accurately recognize and trust one’s own ability; .. making sure that one’s significant worthwhile ’self’ is perceived, recognized, accepted and used by the society that one lives in … And the list goes on and on and on, eh … Doubting and fearing one’s own ability is as ordinary and human as it gets. … It isn’t bull shit. The awareness is ESSENTIAL. One thing can pretty much be guaranteed, regardless and notwithstanding. … By the time a human has reached adulthood, they know what the do well … they are expert at doing that activity … they have good reason to trust their own skill in that regard. …THIS IS TRUE i . m . p . l . i . c . t . y It holds regardless and independent of what an adult might overtly and/or explicitly appreciates/recognizes. Back to the ‘Wizard of Oz’ The lion DEFINES courage. … the lion is super-sensitized to issues concerning courage … the lion is way, way, too harsh and overcritical of himself concerning issues of courage. The lion is hung up on an artifact of when he was a cub. Same story for the tin man … Same story for the Scarecrow … Same story for Dorothy .. Same story for the ‘Wizard of Oz’, himself Same story for Baum. The ‘Wizard of Oz’ is a story about losers. About people who are losers for the single, specific reason; already described … ~~~ Becoming confused by tunneling into one’s own identity <~~~ Baum’s solution? Click your heels together 3 times and reverse the perspective. Life is a real bitch. … It’s so easy to say; it’s so insanely difficult to do Worst of all, it’s utterly subjective. To be honest, Baum’s solution doesn’t solve the paradox he postulates. What Braun’s ‘failed’ solution does succeed in doing is to demonstrate: There does exist a solution to Baum’s Paradox. … only it ain’t clicking one’s heels together three times. So much for "Ruby, two shoes"… . Cordially, RL
Response:
LOL! Ok- so that’s what the psychologist at the pain centre feels after a 45 minute appointment: I was too focused it seems….. http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/06/29/duckrabbit.jpg
I’d be worried if I had a rabbit resembling that! Vashti
Response:
LOL! Ok- so that’s what the psychologist at the pain centre feels after a 45 minute appointment: I was too focused it seems. AAAAARRRRRRRGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHH. It used to be possible to purchase cluebats from userfriendly.org, but they seem to be discontinued.
I refer folks to this URL when obviously necessary: http://www.hasbro.com/forms/orderform.cfm?prod=Clue&sku=00045 One of these days I’m going to order some spare card decks to give out to the clueless at appropriate times! — Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L To reply, there’s no internet on Mars (yet)! <<< Kaplow Klips & Baffle: http://nira-rocketry.org/Document/MayJun00.pdf www.encompasserve.org/~kaplow_r/ www.nira-rocketry.org www.nar.org S&T is becoming this decades Steve Weaver!
Response:
LOL! Ok- so that’s what the psychologist at the pain centre feels after a 45 minute appointment: I was too focused it seems. Times like that I really wish I could give a running comentary of my thoughts and those distractions, you know? Next appointment his assistant will be giving me a bunch of questionaires to fill in about my mood, pain, sleep and boring stuff like that… none of those fun puzzles the neuropsych gave me years ago. Oh, and a short "IQ" test. Told him I don’t believe in their accuracy, especially with my Lost Word Syndrome – still, he said he was really interested in the results of that one since I didn’t finish secondary education yet seem intelligent. It’s not *that* rare, is it?<g The ergotherapist just talked this time about how I feel I’m coping with the pain, my activity levels(low) etc. Said we might do something fun next time… golly, how exciting! Now I might be scared of him, LOL! Vashti
Response:
LOL! Ok- so that’s what the psychologist at the pain centre feels after a 45 minute appointment: I was too focused it seems…..
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/06/29/duckrabbit.jpg ) Cordially, RL
Response:
LOL! Ok- so that’s what the psychologist at the pain centre feels after a 45 minute appointment: I was too focused it seems.
I take it that you were not on any ADD meds at the time. — Article II of the impeachment charges against President Nixon was warrantless wiretapping
Response:
LOL! Ok- so that’s what the psychologist at the pain centre feels after a 45 minute appointment: I was too focused it seems.
AAAAARRRRRRRGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHH. It used to be possible to purchase cluebats from userfriendly.org, but they seem to be discontinued. Times like that I really wish I could give a running comentary of my thoughts and those distractions, you know? Next appointment his assistant will be giving me a bunch of questionaires to fill in about my mood, pain, sleep and boring stuff like that… none of those fun puzzles the neuropsych gave me years ago. Oh, and a short "IQ" test. Told him I don’t believe in their accuracy, especially with my Lost Word Syndrome – still, he said he was really interested in the results of that one since I didn’t finish secondary education yet seem intelligent. It’s not *that* rare, is it?<g
And he equates education level with intelligence? Seems to me that he exemplifies the lack of correlation. The ergotherapist just talked this time about how I feel I’m coping with the pain, my activity levels(low) etc. Said we might do something fun next time… golly, how exciting! Now I might be scared of him, LOL! Vashti
– –John to email, dial "usenet" and validate (was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
Response:
LOL! Ok- so that’s what the psychologist at the pain centre feels after a 45 minute appointment: I was too focused it seems. AAAAARRRRRRRGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHH. It used to be possible to purchase cluebats from userfriendly.org, but they seem to be discontinued.
<g I’d make do with a clue stick! Of *course* I was focused: this was the first time I’ve spoken with this man and I’m interested in getting into this pain course they’re offering. Times like that I really wish I could give a running comentary of my thoughts and those distractions, you know? Next appointment his assistant will be giving me a bunch of questionaires to fill in about my mood, pain, sleep and boring stuff like that… none of those fun puzzles the neuropsych gave me years ago. Oh, and a short "IQ" test. Told him I don’t believe in their accuracy, especially with my Lost Word Syndrome – still, he said he was really interested in the results of that one since I didn’t finish secondary education yet seem intelligent. It’s not *that* rare, is it?<g And he equates education level with intelligence? Seems to me that he exemplifies the lack of correlation.
I’m not sure if he does, he did seem to feel IQ tests usually depended on formal education to provide meaningful results or something along those lines. I’ve been given an IQ test in the past but didn’t finish it: just skipped to the bits I liked, you know? This short test is meant to take about 30 minutes. Vashti
Response:
LOL! Ok- so that’s what the psychologist at the pain centre feels after a 45 minute appointment: I was too focused it seems. I take it that you were not on any ADD meds at the time.
Nope, just 0.25mg of IR Xanax(panic disorder): I’d forgotten to renew my Xanax XR prescription and Monday the doc’s office was shut. I have *tried* Ritalin but wasn’t comfortable with the eerie quietness in my head. Vashti
Response:
Question:
It wouldn’t surprise me if there were more than one kind of ADHD, and one or more of them were the result of mild brain damage in the birth process. Surviving life is not always easy I’m not trying to be argumentative, but … How do you account for the hereditary nature? Why are are boys more likely to have it? Do they have bigger heads that compress more on the way through the birth canal? It seems to me that if your model were true, that oldest children would be most likely to be affected, since they tend to have the longest and most difficult birth. Kids with CP have brain damage that can be observed on MRI; are they more likely to have ADHD?
Uh, he said "one or more of [kinds of ADHD]" not *all*. Priscilla
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I don’t know but I think being a leftie might have something to do with it. In my mind, I often have trouble getting things correct right-to-left. For example, I had a terrible time learning to back up a tractor trailer. I’m not strictly left-handed which can be awkward: you’re not supposed to switch the badminton racket from one hand to the other depending on which side the shuttlecock is heading. Took me ages to learn I’m right-footed too, the PE teacher assumed I would be left-footed and had me keep trying for too long. <BG My southpaw brother played tennis for his high school for a year…and it drove his opponents nuts because he had no "backhand"…he simply swapped hands… I am right-handed, but I have a lot of lefty tendancies (I am left-eye dominant, for example)…I had a friend who was doing a psych experiment, and I was doing something that drove her up the wall. She had people come to her from a seated position…i.e., she would ask them to start walking towards her from a seated position. She was attempting to find which foot "led" in order to determine foot dominance. She had determined that foot dominance matched hand dominance–until she ran into me–I showed cross-dominance. Once she told me what she was doing, I simply laughed at her, and pointed out several other people for her to try, and she ended up with the same "problem." All of the people I gave her "led" with their left feet….puzzled the hell out of her until I pointed out that we were all band geeks–we had all been trained to lead with our left feet for *years*! She cam up with another way to test for dominance…kickball. I lead with my left foot, but kick with my right <G However, I have a lot of "crossed dominance" issues…my eye (as mentioned above), my ear is another….I can mouse with either hand (comes in handy at times–like when I am "ten-keying-by-touch" and need to move the cursor quickly <G)…I can read upside down (I do not know if that "matters"). I once read that "handedness" is not always just which hand people use to write with…. There are times when being ambidextrous can be an asset, especially in sports and playing a musical instrument. Or juggling! When OS was young, I thought his being ambidextrous was a *good* thing, but I’ve since been told, "not necessarily, and a child’s failure to develop a dominant side could be a flag that the child’s brain has a glitch. Eventually, OS started primarily using his right hand, but when he writes, he "hooks" like a lefty. I have read that developing the "lefty-hook" is one sign of a brain glitch, a pathway that is normally the easiest mode of development ceases to be so, so another is chosen. H’ever, the development of our large brain happened so recently and so fast that the necessary changes in the birth process haven’t caught up with the extra size. Hence the pain and difficulty. Our current brain size is a compromise between the advatanges of having a bigger brain, and the disadvantages of it getting damaged in the birth process. Slight damage is not uncommon. Statistically if you have a sign of such damage, such as the "lefty-hook", or indeed left-handedness without the hook, then you are more likely to have others. But only more likely, and they might be trivial or have been completely recoverable. It’s a lottery. It wouldn’t surprise me if there were more than one kind of ADHD, and one or more of them were the result of mild brain damage in the birth process. Surviving life is not always easy I’m not trying to be argumentative, but … How do you account for the hereditary nature?
ADHD is far from being completely heriditary, and in any case, as I pointed out, I was suggesting that this was only one among a number of possible causes. Furthermore, it would hardly be surprising if difficult births had a tendency to run in families, would it? Why are are boys more likely to have it? Do they have bigger heads that compress more on the way through the birth canal?
No, but boys (and men) are well known to be more susceptible to all kinds of brain damage, from birth right up to strokes in old age, and also to recover more poorly from them. So the fact that ADHD ocurrs more in boys is what you’d expect if brain damage was a contributory factor. It seems to me that if your model were true, that oldest children would be most likely to be affected, since they tend to have the longest and most difficult birth. Kids with CP have brain damage that can be observed on MRI; are they more likely to have ADHD?
Well, there’s an interesting question. Let us know what you find out. — IPAB, Informatics, JCMB, King’s Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK [http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/]
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I don’t know but I think being a leftie might have something to do with it. In my mind, I often have trouble getting things correct right-to-left. For example, I had a terrible time learning to back up a tractor trailer. I’m not strictly left-handed which can be awkward: you’re not supposed to switch the badminton racket from one hand to the other depending on which side the shuttlecock is heading. Took me ages to learn I’m right-footed too, the PE teacher assumed I would be left-footed and had me keep trying for too long. <BG My southpaw brother played tennis for his high school for a year…and it drove his opponents nuts because he had no "backhand"…he simply swapped hands… I am right-handed, but I have a lot of lefty tendancies (I am left-eye dominant, for example)…I had a friend who was doing a psych experiment, and I was doing something that drove her up the wall. She had people come to her from a seated position…i.e., she would ask them to start walking towards her from a seated position. She was attempting to find which foot "led" in order to determine foot dominance. She had determined that foot dominance matched hand dominance–until she ran into me–I showed cross-dominance. Once she told me what she was doing, I simply laughed at her, and pointed out several other people for her to try, and she ended up with the same "problem." All of the people I gave her "led" with their left feet….puzzled the hell out of her until I pointed out that we were all band geeks–we had all been trained to lead with our left feet for *years*! She cam up with another way to test for dominance…kickball. I lead with my left foot, but kick with my right <G However, I have a lot of "crossed dominance" issues…my eye (as mentioned above), my ear is another….I can mouse with either hand (comes in handy at times–like when I am "ten-keying-by-touch" and need to move the cursor quickly <G)…I can read upside down (I do not know if that "matters"). I once read that "handedness" is not always just which hand people use to write with…. There are times when being ambidextrous can be an asset, especially in sports and playing a musical instrument. Or juggling! When OS was young, I thought his being ambidextrous was a *good* thing, but I’ve since been told, "not necessarily, and a child’s failure to develop a dominant side could be a flag that the child’s brain has a glitch. Eventually, OS started primarily using his right hand, but when he writes, he "hooks" like a lefty. I have read that developing the "lefty-hook" is one sign of a brain glitch, a pathway that is normally the easiest mode of development ceases to be so, so another is chosen. H’ever, the development of our large brain happened so recently and so fast that the necessary changes in the birth process haven’t caught up with the extra size. Hence the pain and difficulty. Our current brain size is a compromise between the advatanges of having a bigger brain, and the disadvantages of it getting damaged in the birth process. Slight damage is not uncommon. Statistically if you have a sign of such damage, such as the "lefty-hook", or indeed left-handedness without the hook, then you are more likely to have others. But only more likely, and they might be trivial or have been completely recoverable. It’s a lottery. It wouldn’t surprise me if there were more than one kind of ADHD, and one or more of them were the result of mild brain damage in the birth process. Surviving life is not always easy
I’m not trying to be argumentative, but … How do you account for the hereditary nature? Why are are boys more likely to have it? Do they have bigger heads that compress more on the way through the birth canal? It seems to me that if your model were true, that oldest children would be most likely to be affected, since they tend to have the longest and most difficult birth. Kids with CP have brain damage that can be observed on MRI; are they more likely to have ADHD?
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I don’t know but I think being a leftie might have something to do with it. In my mind, I often have trouble getting things correct right-to-left. For example, I had a terrible time learning to back up a tractor trailer. I’m not strictly left-handed which can be awkward: you’re not supposed to switch the badminton racket from one hand to the other depending on which side the shuttlecock is heading. Took me ages to learn I’m right-footed too, the PE teacher assumed I would be left-footed and had me keep trying for too long. <BG My southpaw brother played tennis for his high school for a year…and it drove his opponents nuts because he had no "backhand"…he simply swapped hands… I am right-handed, but I have a lot of lefty tendancies (I am left-eye dominant, for example)…I had a friend who was doing a psych experiment, and I was doing something that drove her up the wall. She had people come to her from a seated position…i.e., she would ask them to start walking towards her from a seated position. She was attempting to find which foot "led" in order to determine foot dominance. She had determined that foot dominance matched hand dominance–until she ran into me–I showed cross-dominance. Once she told me what she was doing, I simply laughed at her, and pointed out several other people for her to try, and she ended up with the same "problem." All of the people I gave her "led" with their left feet….puzzled the hell out of her until I pointed out that we were all band geeks–we had all been trained to lead with our left feet for *years*! She cam up with another way to test for dominance…kickball. I lead with my left foot, but kick with my right <G However, I have a lot of "crossed dominance" issues…my eye (as mentioned above), my ear is another….I can mouse with either hand (comes in handy at times–like when I am "ten-keying-by-touch" and need to move the cursor quickly <G)…I can read upside down (I do not know if that "matters"). I once read that "handedness" is not always just which hand people use to write with…. There are times when being ambidextrous can be an asset, especially in sports and playing a musical instrument. Or juggling! When OS was young, I thought his being ambidextrous was a *good* thing, but I’ve since been told, "not necessarily, and a child’s failure to develop a dominant side could be a flag that the child’s brain has a glitch. Eventually, OS started primarily using his right hand, but when he writes, he "hooks" like a lefty. I have read that developing the "lefty-hook" is one sign of a brain glitch, a pathway that is normally the easiest mode of development ceases to be so, so another is chosen.
That doesn’t surprise me. Based on my observations, my ADHD son definitely seems to have a glitchy brain. H’ever, the development of our large brain happened so recently and so fast that the necessary changes in the birth process haven’t caught up with the extra size. Hence the pain and difficulty. Our current brain size is a compromise between the advatanges of having a bigger brain, and the disadvantages of it getting damaged in the birth process. Slight damage is not uncommon. Statistically if you have a sign of such damage, such as the "lefty-hook", or indeed left-handedness without the hook, then you are more likely to have others. But only more likely, and they might be trivial or have been completely recoverable. It’s a lottery. It wouldn’t surprise me if there were more than one kind of ADHD, and one or more of them were the result of mild brain damage in the birth process. Surviving life is not always easy
I agree with you, Chris, and I think there are enough studies correlating ADHD to prenatal problems or birth complications to support your hypothesis. Nancy Unique, like everyone else
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I don’t know but I think being a leftie might have something to do with it. In my mind, I often have trouble getting things correct right-to-left. For example, I had a terrible time learning to back up a tractor trailer. I’m not strictly left-handed which can be awkward: you’re not supposed to switch the badminton racket from one hand to the other depending on which side the shuttlecock is heading. Took me ages to learn I’m right-footed too, the PE teacher assumed I would be left-footed and had me keep trying for too long. <BG My southpaw brother played tennis for his high school for a year…and it drove his opponents nuts because he had no "backhand"…he simply swapped hands… I am right-handed, but I have a lot of lefty tendancies (I am left-eye dominant, for example)…I had a friend who was doing a psych experiment, and I was doing something that drove her up the wall. She had people come to her from a seated position…i.e., she would ask them to start walking towards her from a seated position. She was attempting to find which foot "led" in order to determine foot dominance. She had determined that foot dominance matched hand dominance–until she ran into me–I showed cross-dominance. Once she told me what she was doing, I simply laughed at her, and pointed out several other people for her to try, and she ended up with the same "problem." All of the people I gave her "led" with their left feet….puzzled the hell out of her until I pointed out that we were all band geeks–we had all been trained to lead with our left feet for *years*! She cam up with another way to test for dominance…kickball. I lead with my left foot, but kick with my right <G However, I have a lot of "crossed dominance" issues…my eye (as mentioned above), my ear is another….I can mouse with either hand (comes in handy at times–like when I am "ten-keying-by-touch" and need to move the cursor quickly <G)…I can read upside down (I do not know if that "matters"). I once read that "handedness" is not always just which hand people use to write with….
There are times when being ambidextrous can be an asset, especially in sports and playing a musical instrument. Or juggling! When OS was young, I thought his being ambidextrous was a *good* thing, but I’ve since been told, "not necessarily, and a child’s failure to develop a dominant side could be a flag that the child’s brain has a glitch. Eventually, OS started primarily using his right hand, but when he writes, he "hooks" like a lefty. Nancy Unique, like everyone else
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I don’t know but I think being a leftie might have something to do with it. In my mind, I often have trouble getting things correct right-to-left. For example, I had a terrible time learning to back up a tractor trailer. I’m not strictly left-handed which can be awkward: you’re not supposed to switch the badminton racket from one hand to the other depending on which side the shuttlecock is heading. Took me ages to learn I’m right-footed too, the PE teacher assumed I would be left-footed and had me keep trying for too long. <BG My southpaw brother played tennis for his high school for a year…and it drove his opponents nuts because he had no "backhand"…he simply swapped hands… I am right-handed, but I have a lot of lefty tendancies (I am left-eye dominant, for example)…I had a friend who was doing a psych experiment, and I was doing something that drove her up the wall. She had people come to her from a seated position…i.e., she would ask them to start walking towards her from a seated position. She was attempting to find which foot "led" in order to determine foot dominance. She had determined that foot dominance matched hand dominance–until she ran into me–I showed cross-dominance. Once she told me what she was doing, I simply laughed at her, and pointed out several other people for her to try, and she ended up with the same "problem." All of the people I gave her "led" with their left feet….puzzled the hell out of her until I pointed out that we were all band geeks–we had all been trained to lead with our left feet for *years*! She cam up with another way to test for dominance…kickball. I lead with my left foot, but kick with my right <G However, I have a lot of "crossed dominance" issues…my eye (as mentioned above), my ear is another….I can mouse with either hand (comes in handy at times–like when I am "ten-keying-by-touch" and need to move the cursor quickly <G)…I can read upside down (I do not know if that "matters"). I once read that "handedness" is not always just which hand people use to write with…. There are times when being ambidextrous can be an asset, especially in sports and playing a musical instrument. Or juggling! When OS was young, I thought his being ambidextrous was a *good* thing, but I’ve since been told, "not necessarily, and a child’s failure to develop a dominant side could be a flag that the child’s brain has a glitch. Eventually, OS started primarily using his right hand, but when he writes, he "hooks" like a lefty.
My YS, right handed, did the same–the OT said that for him the reason was because he had low motor tone from his fingers to his shoulders…the reason why he "hooked" was to lock in his poncil mechanically, not muscularly, so that he could use his entire arm to write, relieveing the strain on the fine muscles…with therapy from OT, his "hook" has lessened to the point of non-existance. FWIW, my southpaw OS does not "hook" <g…though OS does brag that he has an easier time playing guitar than I do because all of his fret fingering is with his dominant hand (as opposed to me, who has to use my non-dominant had for that!) — Buny " Nobody realizes that some people expend tremendous energy merely to be normal." ~ Albert Camus
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I don’t know but I think being a leftie might have something to do with it. In my mind, I often have trouble getting things correct right-to-left. For example, I had a terrible time learning to back up a tractor trailer. I’m not strictly left-handed which can be awkward: you’re not supposed to switch the badminton racket from one hand to the other depending on which side the shuttlecock is heading. Took me ages to learn I’m right-footed too, the PE teacher assumed I would be left-footed and had me keep trying for too long. <BG My southpaw brother played tennis for his high school for a year…and it drove his opponents nuts because he had no "backhand"…he simply swapped hands… I am right-handed, but I have a lot of lefty tendancies (I am left-eye dominant, for example)…I had a friend who was doing a psych experiment, and I was doing something that drove her up the wall. She had people come to her from a seated position…i.e., she would ask them to start walking towards her from a seated position. She was attempting to find which foot "led" in order to determine foot dominance. She had determined that foot dominance matched hand dominance–until she ran into me–I showed cross-dominance. Once she told me what she was doing, I simply laughed at her, and pointed out several other people for her to try, and she ended up with the same "problem." All of the people I gave her "led" with their left feet….puzzled the hell out of her until I pointed out that we were all band geeks–we had all been trained to lead with our left feet for *years*! She cam up with another way to test for dominance…kickball. I lead with my left foot, but kick with my right <G However, I have a lot of "crossed dominance" issues…my eye (as mentioned above), my ear is another….I can mouse with either hand (comes in handy at times–like when I am "ten-keying-by-touch" and need to move the cursor quickly <G)…I can read upside down (I do not know if that "matters"). I once read that "handedness" is not always just which hand people use to write with…. There are times when being ambidextrous can be an asset, especially in sports and playing a musical instrument. Or juggling! When OS was young, I thought his being ambidextrous was a *good* thing, but I’ve since been told, "not necessarily, and a child’s failure to develop a dominant side could be a flag that the child’s brain has a glitch. Eventually, OS started primarily using his right hand, but when he writes, he "hooks" like a lefty.
I have read that developing the "lefty-hook" is one sign of a brain glitch, a pathway that is normally the easiest mode of development ceases to be so, so another is chosen. H’ever, the development of our large brain happened so recently and so fast that the necessary changes in the birth process haven’t caught up with the extra size. Hence the pain and difficulty. Our current brain size is a compromise between the advatanges of having a bigger brain, and the disadvantages of it getting damaged in the birth process. Slight damage is not uncommon. Statistically if you have a sign of such damage, such as the "lefty-hook", or indeed left-handedness without the hook, then you are more likely to have others. But only more likely, and they might be trivial or have been completely recoverable. It’s a lottery. It wouldn’t surprise me if there were more than one kind of ADHD, and one or more of them were the result of mild brain damage in the birth process. Surviving life is not always easy — IPAB, Informatics, JCMB, King’s Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK [http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/]
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I don’t know but I think being a leftie might have something to do with it. In my mind, I often have trouble getting things correct right-to-left. For example, I had a terrible time learning to back up a tractor trailer. I’m not strictly left-handed which can be awkward: you’re not supposed to switch the badminton racket from one hand to the other depending on which side the shuttlecock is heading. Took me ages to learn I’m right-footed too, the PE teacher assumed I would be left-footed and had me keep trying for too long. <BG My southpaw brother played tennis for his high school for a year…and it drove his opponents nuts because he had no "backhand"…he simply swapped hands… I am right-handed, but I have a lot of lefty tendancies (I am left-eye dominant, for example)…I had a friend who was doing a psych experiment, and I was doing something that drove her up the wall. She had people come to her from a seated position…i.e., she would ask them to start walking towards her from a seated position. She was attempting to find which foot "led" in order to determine foot dominance. She had determined that foot dominance matched hand dominance–until she ran into me–I showed cross-dominance. Once she told me what she was doing, I simply laughed at her, and pointed out several other people for her to try, and she ended up with the same "problem." All of the people I gave her "led" with their left feet….puzzled the hell out of her until I pointed out that we were all band geeks–we had all been trained to lead with our left feet for *years*! She cam up with another way to test for dominance…kickball. I lead with my left foot, but kick with my right <G However, I have a lot of "crossed dominance" issues…my eye (as mentioned above), my ear is another….I can mouse with either hand (comes in handy at times–like when I am "ten-keying-by-touch" and need to move the cursor quickly <G)…I can read upside down (I do not know if that "matters"). I once read that "handedness" is not always just which hand people use to write with…. There are times when being ambidextrous can be an asset, especially in sports and playing a musical instrument. Or juggling! When OS was young, I thought his being ambidextrous was a *good* thing, but I’ve since been told, "not necessarily, and a child’s failure to develop a dominant side could be a flag that the child’s brain has a glitch. Eventually, OS started primarily using his right hand, but when he writes, he "hooks" like a lefty. I have read that developing the "lefty-hook" is one sign of a brain glitch, a pathway that is normally the easiest mode of development ceases to be so, so another is chosen. H’ever, the development of our large brain happened so recently and so fast that the necessary changes in the birth process haven’t caught up with the extra size. Hence the pain and difficulty. Our current brain size is a compromise between the advatanges of having a bigger brain, and the disadvantages of it getting damaged in the birth process. Slight damage is not uncommon. Statistically if you have a sign of such damage, such as the "lefty-hook", or indeed left-handedness without the hook, then you are more likely to have others. But only more likely, and they might be trivial or have been completely recoverable. It’s a lottery. It wouldn’t surprise me if there were more than one kind of ADHD, and one or more of them were the result of mild brain damage in the birth process. Surviving life is not always easy I’m not trying to be argumentative, but … How do you account for the hereditary nature? Why are are boys more likely to have it? Do they have bigger heads that compress more on the way through the birth canal? It seems to me that if your model were true, that oldest children would be most likely to be affected, since they tend to have the longest and most difficult birth. Kids with CP have brain damage that can be observed on MRI; are they more likely to have ADHD?
Why would anything Chris said negate the idea that ADHD is hereditary? Or that boys are more likely to have it? Even the ADHD experts say that every case of ADHD apparently cannot be linked to genetic factors, although genetics does seem to play a role in the majority of cases. The figure I seem to recall is that 80% of ADHD seems to be accounted for by genetics. My reading about ADHD would support the idea that what we now lump together by symptoms and call "ADHD" indeed may turn out to have very different causes once we actually learn what the primary causes is/are. That would explain, perhaps, why individuals vary in their response to ADHD medications. Or the difference between the different types of ADHD. Right now, because we really don’t know the actual cause of ADHD, we classify individuals by symptom, not cause. And we treat all those cases basically the same way. That is kind of like saying that everyone who has an aching head has "Painful Head Disorder" and treating all individuals with "PHD" the same. That seems downright silly to us because we know that the symptom of a headache can have many causes, so the diagnoses are different, and treatments, although the same for some of those diagnosis, vary with others. A headache caused by a sinus infection, migraine, or brain tumor, are treated differently. I hope that someday, we’ll reach that point with ADHD. Studies have correlated ADHD in children with prenatal or birth problems including exposure to toxins in utero, maternal smoking or drug abuse during pregnancy, low birth weight, being a twin or other multiple, and premature birth. These findings suggest that problems in the prenatal environment or birth complications may negatively impact the developing brain. We eventually may find that genetically, only some children–those with one or more genes linked to ADHD–will be adversely affected by prenatal and birth problems. OTOH, we may find out that some children do not have any genetic link to ADHD at all–and that in those cases, prenatal or birth problems were the sole cause of their ADHD symptoms. We just don’t know enough right now to say one way or the other. Nancy Unique, like everyone else
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – In addition, I’ve always suspected that many ADHD kids turn to sports as an outlet for their restlessness. Plus, so many ADHDers find that exercise helps their symptoms. Nancy Unique, like everyone else Nancy: Interesting points. I however was lousy at most team sports as I was the awkward, uncoordiated, clumsy kid. I have always be slow to learn anything that required grace and cooridiation.
I’ve read in the past that ADHD kids are more likely to be "clumsy" than their NT peers, but I don’t remember where I read that. Perhaps it’s because ADHDers aren’t always focused on their environment real well? Or perhaps the clumsiness is caused by some kind of comorbid brain issue? Any thoughts? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I did better at things where I could depend only upon myself and no one was bothered if I messsed up. For example, I did very well in Judo. I did manage to break almost everything on the left side of my body but I was able to persist. Pesistence paid off in the end. In team sports, I never had the chance to try, try and try again to get it right. I also did very well in X-country skiing and lap swimming because, I was able to hyperfocus and train a rediculous amount to get good at them. I tried golf alone too but they kick you out if you go swimming in the water traps. LOL Anyone else really good at sports and have ADD/ADHD. Best wishes, Vic
My ADHD son was very good at some sports, not-so-good at others. He tried a lot of them throughout his childhood and teen years, and, as a young adult, is now pursuing a new one–tae kwon do–or is it kung fu? (I know it’s not karate, as he did that for a couple of years as a kid.) I think that when I stopped counting in his mid-teens, he’d tried 17 different sports, some for just a season or a single series of lessons. Others, he enjoyed for many years: gymnastic (7 years), soccer (12 years). He seemed to excel at sports that didn’t require hand-eye coordination. He didn’t shine at basketball, tennis, or baseball, for example. (After trying it for a few seasons, he didn’t like baseball anyway. "Baseball’s so boring," he said. "You have to sit on the bench and wait your turn to bat. Then, if you do get on base, you have to wait for another player to move you further. And, if you’re in the field, you have to wait for someone to hit the ball." Clearly not a sport for an ADHD kid who liked constant motion. LOL.) OTOH, my son was was a talented soccer player who loved the constant movement of soccer, especially when he got older and he’d typically play for nearly the full 90 minutes. He was also a good distance runner. The cross-country coach at his high school, and the track coach (as well as the football coach) all tried to recruit him for their teams, but he said "No, I’m not giving up soccer" which he played year-round. He also liked, and seemed to be fairly good at, extreme sports like skateboarding and snowboarding. He met a skateboard pro who also had ADHD, and I suspect that a large percentage of the other "skaters" I met were also ADHD. Perhaps ADHDers are drawn to the endorphin rush created by the extreme sports. Or maybe it’s the ADHDer’s lack of foresight and appreciation of the possible consequences of the risks of those sports that might make them successful. Thoughts anyone? Nancy Unique, like everyone else
Response:
Anyone else really good at sports and have ADD/ADHD.
Got so caught up talking about my ADHD son’s experiences with sports, I forgot to mention that several Olympic athletes have said they have ADHD. I can’t remember them all, but one is the swimmer Michael Phelps, who won six gold medals, and two bronze, at the 04 summer Olympics. An article I read said that Phelps’ mom was once told by one of his teachers, "he will never be able to focus on a THING in his life!" Phelps writes about his ADHD in his book, "Beneath the Surface. Another ADHD Olympian is Gary Hall, Jr., another swimming gold medalist. Another is Justin Gatlin, who won the gold medal in the 04 summer Olympics’ 100 meter sprint. Nancy Unique, like everyone else
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – In addition, I’ve always suspected that many ADHD kids turn to sports as an outlet for their restlessness. Plus, so many ADHDers find that exercise helps their symptoms. Nancy Unique, like everyone else Nancy: Interesting points. I however was lousy at most team sports as I was the awkward, uncoordiated, clumsy kid. I have always be slow to learn anything that required grace and cooridiation. I’ve read in the past that ADHD kids are more likely to be "clumsy" than their NT peers, but I don’t remember where I read that.
I just happened to skim over parts of the Barkley transcript about ADHD kids which I recommended in another thread (http://www.schwablearning.org/pdfs/2200_7-barktran.pdf), and I noticed this comment from Barkley about clumsiness, and its relationship to ADHD. But Barkley seems to be talking about fine motor coordination. "We have known for years that motor coordination deficits are part of AD/HD. They’re just not some co-morbid learning disability. There are part of this disorder. Why does AD/HD interfere with fine motor sequencing, which it does? Why? That’s as much a part of AD/HD as the impulsiveness is. "And yet there’s no mention of it in the DSM, in the books. It’s just some throwaway little sentence. AD/HD kids seem to be more clumsy. Ho hum. Why is that there? It’s mainly sequencing. Sequencing of novel, complex fine motor gestures. What is it about this disorder that is disrupting complex fine motor sequencing?…." My ADHD son always had fine motor skills problems. Nancy Unique, like everyone else
Response:
I’ve read in the past that ADHD kids are more likely to be "clumsy" than their NT peers, but I don’t remember where I read that. Perhaps it’s because ADHDers aren’t always focused on their environment real well? Or perhaps the clumsiness is caused by some kind of comorbid brain issue? Any thoughts?
I don’t know but I think being a leftie might have something to do with it. In my mind, I often have trouble getting things correct right-to-left. For example, I had a terrible time learning to back up a tractor trailer. I also think that co-ordination is the learning of a series of movements or steps. I have never been able to easily learn anything that had a logical series. For several years I took ballroom dancing with my X. I was simply terrible at it and can’t remember anything I learned then. Interestingly enough, that involved a series of steps or movements. I was the one who wanted to learn ballroom dancing. I also wonder if the inability to stay focused and interested in the ‘game’ may make it difficult to stay interested long enough to learn a game. My daughter was a disaster at learning soccer …. she would look at butter flies while her team mates would yell for her to get the ball when it came near her. Most times she didn’t even here them. One of my other problems is that I don’t take quick verbal instructions well. Most team sports involve a lot of that. Any more thoughts? – Vic
Response:
I don’t know but I think being a leftie might have something to do with it. In my mind, I often have trouble getting things correct right-to-left. For example, I had a terrible time learning to back up a tractor trailer.
I don’t think so. Left and right aren’t easy for me as a rightie either.
Response:
I don’t know but I think being a leftie might have something to do with it. In my mind, I often have trouble getting things correct right-to-left. For example, I had a terrible time learning to back up a tractor trailer. I don’t think so. Left and right aren’t easy for me as a rightie either.
And I have a hard time thinking of a more difficult task than backing up a tractor trailer! Priscilla, newbie ADDer
Response:
I don’t know but I think being a leftie might have something to do with it. In my mind, I often have trouble getting things correct right-to-left. For example, I had a terrible time learning to back up a tractor trailer.
I’m not strictly left-handed which can be awkward: you’re not supposed to switch the badminton racket from one hand to the other depending on which side the shuttlecock is heading. Took me ages to learn I’m right-footed too, the PE teacher assumed I would be left-footed and had me keep trying for too long. I also think that co-ordination is the learning of a series of movements or steps. I have never been able to easily learn anything that had a logical series.
I usually need to figure out my own series of movements so I can find the best way *for me* using whichever hand or foot does the movement best. Vashti
Response:
I don’t know but I think being a leftie might have something to do with it. In my mind, I often have trouble getting things correct right-to-left. For example, I had a terrible time learning to back up a tractor trailer. I’m not strictly left-handed which can be awkward: you’re not supposed to switch the badminton racket from one hand to the other depending on which side the shuttlecock is heading. Took me ages to learn I’m right-footed too, the PE teacher assumed I would be left-footed and had me keep trying for too long.
<BG My southpaw brother played tennis for his high school for a year…and it drove his opponents nuts because he had no "backhand"…he simply swapped hands… I am right-handed, but I have a lot of lefty tendancies (I am left-eye dominant, for example)…I had a friend who was doing a psych experiment, and I was doing something that drove her up the wall. She had people come to her from a seated position…i.e., she would ask them to start walking towards her from a seated position. She was attempting to find which foot "led" in order to determine foot dominance. She had determined that foot dominance matched hand dominance–until she ran into me–I showed cross-dominance. Once she told me what she was doing, I simply laughed at her, and pointed out several other people for her to try, and she ended up with the same "problem." All of the people I gave her "led" with their left feet….puzzled the hell out of her until I pointed out that we were all band geeks–we had all been trained to lead with our left feet for *years*! She cam up with another way to test for dominance…kickball. I lead with my left foot, but kick with my right <G However, I have a lot of "crossed dominance" issues…my eye (as mentioned above), my ear is another….I can mouse with either hand (comes in handy at times–like when I am "ten-keying-by-touch" and need to move the cursor quickly <G)…I can read upside down (I do not know if that "matters"). I once read that "handedness" is not always just which hand people use to write with…. I also think that co-ordination is the learning of a series of movements or steps. I have never been able to easily learn anything that had a logical series. I usually need to figure out my own series of movements so I can find the best way *for me* using whichever hand or foot does the movement best.
<nodding As above <G — Buny " Nobody realizes that some people expend tremendous energy merely to be normal." ~ Albert Camus
Response:
However, I have a lot of "crossed dominance" issues…my eye (as mentioned above), my ear is another….I can mouse with either hand (comes in handy at times–like when I am "ten-keying-by-touch" and need to move the cursor quickly <G)…I can read upside down (I do not know if that "matters"). I once read that "handedness" is not always just which hand people use to write with….
I am/was extremely right-handed – almost to the point that my left hand is useless – however, I switched over to a left handed mouse about five years ago, just because. It’s made a huge difference. I initially made the switch because I was developing problems in my right wrist and thought I’d take the strain off of it. I am also a former adding machine user so I use my right hand on the number keys. Since switching, my right wrist has calmed down considerably, and I can even write my name now with my left hand, legibly (!!) I never could do that before. — Ann e-mail address is not checked
Response:
[snippedy cause I should be in bed] However, I have a lot of "crossed dominance" issues…my eye (as mentioned above), my ear is another….I can mouse with either hand (comes in handy at times–like when I am "ten-keying-by-touch" and need to move the cursor quickly <G)…I can read upside down (I do not know if that "matters"). I once read that "handedness" is not always just which hand people use to write with….
I learned to write with my right hand when my left wrist needed to be immobilised, nearly as legibly as with my left… not very, that is.<g During my neuro-psych eval my handedness was looked at, I’d have to pretend to do things like brushing my hair, cleaning my teeth, catching a ball and quite a few others… really quickly. Most of the things I’d do with either hand except the catching of the ball: the woman kept "throwing it" to my right! I told her she’d have to pretend to throw to my left if she wanted me to "catch" with my left hand. 
Vashti
Response:
<snip I learned to write with my right hand when my left wrist needed to be immobilised, nearly as legibly as with my left… not very, that is.<g <snip Vasht
I was born left-handed, as was my father. He insisted that my first teachers force me to write right-handed as it is a ‘right-handed’ world. Switching over was quite common when I was a kid in the ’50s. It left me with the ability to write both right and left handed. Acutely now, I am better with my right hand but if I write with my left for an hour or so, I quickly pick it up again. I am ambidextrous in many things. It comes in especially handy when using a hammer or a screwdriver in tight spaces or where one hand can do the job easier. – Vic
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Yesterday (March 20, 2006), the CBS Evening News had a segment about pro athletes with ADHD, featuring Chicago Cubs baseball pitcher Scott Eyre and LA Clippers basketball center Chris Kaman. http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/03/20/eveningnews/main1423685.shtml The show presented an interesting figure I’d never seen before (but, unfortunately, didn’t say where they got it from): "[ADHD] affects 4 to 5 percent of all children in America, and most of them never outgrow it. But researchers have found the percentage is even higher among pro athletes: 8 to 10 percent." The show then went on to say: "Researchers think it’s because those who have trouble with academics in school turn to sports to compensate." That’s one reasonable explanation. In addition, I’ve always suspected that many ADHD kids turn to sports as an outlet for their restlessness. Plus, so many ADHDers find that exercise helps their symptoms.
Not in my house. YS is into sports and OS is not. YS just did his first 10K race.
Response:
In addition, I’ve always suspected that many ADHD kids turn to sports as an outlet for their restlessness. Plus, so many ADHDers find that exercise helps their symptoms. Nancy Unique, like everyone else
Nancy: Interesting points. I however was lousy at most team sports as I was the awkward, uncoordiated, clumsy kid. I have always be slow to learn anything that required grace and cooridiation. I did better at things where I could depend only upon myself and no one was bothered if I messsed up. For example, I did very well in Judo. I did manage to break almost everything on the left side of my body but I was able to persist. Pesistence paid off in the end. In team sports, I never had the chance to try, try and try again to get it right. I also did very well in X-country skiing and lap swimming because, I was able to hyperfocus and train a rediculous amount to get good at them. I tried golf alone too but they kick you out if you go swimming in the water traps. LOL Anyone else really good at sports and have ADD/ADHD. Best wishes, Vic
Response:
"[ADHD] affects 4 to 5 percent of all children in America, and most of them never outgrow it. But researchers have found the percentage is even higher among pro athletes: 8 to 10 percent."
When my daughter was doing gymnastics I think she was the only girl on the team dxed with ADD. However, I heard that most of the boys on the boy’s team were. And when she switched to trampoline, which had a mixed team, most of the boys in her group had ADD. Karen R.
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – In addition, I’ve always suspected that many ADHD kids turn to sports as an outlet for their restlessness. Plus, so many ADHDers find that exercise helps their symptoms. Nancy Unique, like everyone else Nancy: Interesting points. I however was lousy at most team sports as I was the awkward, uncoordiated, clumsy kid. I have always be slow to learn anything that required grace and cooridiation. I did better at things where I could depend only upon myself and no one was bothered if I messsed up. For example, I did very well in Judo. I did manage to break almost everything on the left side of my body but I was able to persist. Pesistence paid off in the end.
<nodding My husband and his family (none of which "believe" in ADHD, all of which show signs of it <G) are all into sports…my sister in law set records in parish (Louisiana) track and field that have held for over 20 years…I was somewhat of a disappointment to them when I started dating–and later married–the firstborn, because I had "two left feet"…it was not until I was in my 30s and discovered kung fu/t’ai chi that I found my own niche in sports (I earned my blacks in that sport) A benefit to this was that I could finally find a sport that I could focus in…and at times *hyper*focus in (t’ai chi is not called "meditation in motion" for nothin’ <BG) In team sports, I never had the chance to try, try and try again to get it right. I also did very well in X-country skiing and lap swimming because, I was able to hyperfocus and train a rediculous amount to get good at them. I tried golf alone too but they kick you out if you go swimming in the water traps. LOL Anyone else really good at sports and have ADD/ADHD.
I have always said that my in-laws found in sports a "socially acceptable outlet for their ADHD"….for them it was sheer luck…for so many others, they have no luck at all… — Buny " Nobody realizes that some people expend tremendous energy merely to be normal." ~ Albert Camus
Response:
Yesterday (March 20, 2006), the CBS Evening News had a segment about pro athletes with ADHD, featuring Chicago Cubs baseball pitcher Scott Eyre and LA Clippers basketball center Chris Kaman. http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/03/20/eveningnews/main1423685.shtml The show presented an interesting figure I’d never seen before (but, unfortunately, didn’t say where they got it from): "[ADHD] affects 4 to 5 percent of all children in America, and most of them never outgrow it. But researchers have found the percentage is even higher among pro athletes: 8 to 10 percent." The show then went on to say: "Researchers think it’s because those who have trouble with academics in school turn to sports to compensate." That’s one reasonable explanation. In addition, I’ve always suspected that many ADHD kids turn to sports as an outlet for their restlessness. Plus, so many ADHDers find that exercise helps their symptoms. Nancy Unique, like everyone else
Response:
Question:
Hi I am now taking generic Ritalin for severe ADHD. My financial situation is terrible and I am out of work and without a drug plan. Are there any other inexpensive ADHD treatments you can suggest? I am considering a low carb diet. Are there any other inexpensive medications or other treatments you have had good luck with? Many thanks, – Vic
Response:
Hi I am now taking generic Ritalin for severe ADHD. My financial situation is terrible and I am out of work and without a drug plan. Are there any other inexpensive ADHD treatments you can suggest? I am considering a low carb diet. Are there any other inexpensive medications or other treatments you have had good luck with?
Simple solution: http://www.health.gov.on.ca/english/public/pub/drugs/trillium.html Quoting from above … Who ? You can apply to the Trillium Drug Program if : * your private insurance does not cover 100% of your prescription drug costs; * you have valid Ontario Health Insurance (OHIP); and * you are not eligible for drug coverage under the Ontario Drug Benefit (ODB) Program. Deductible The program has a deductible that is based on income and family size. Each year starting August 1, you must pay your drug costs up to your deductible level before you are eligible for drug coverage. The program runs from August 1 of one year to July 31 of the following year. On August 1, 1999, the annual up-front deductible previously paid by Trillium recipients changed to a deductible that is paid in four installments over the Trillium program year (August 1 to July 31 of the following year). For example, a family with an annual deductible of $500, will pay $125 for prescriptions purchased at the start of each quarter on August 1, November 1, February 1, and May 1. After the deductible is paid in each quarter, the family will receive benefits for that quarter, and may be asked to pay up to $2 per prescription each time they purchase a covered drug product. Any unpaid deductible in a quarter will be added to the next quarter’s deductible. … " HTH ( Your pharmacist may be able to help you … ) Cordially, RL
Response:
Hi I am now taking generic Ritalin for severe ADHD. My financial situation is terrible and I am out of work and without a drug plan. Are there any other inexpensive ADHD treatments you can suggest? I am considering a low carb diet. Are there any other inexpensive medications or other treatments you have had good luck with?
Damn. Just caffeine, but you probably already knew about that one. At least methylphenidate is cheap.
Response:
Hi I am now taking generic Ritalin for severe ADHD. My financial situation is terrible and I am out of work and without a drug plan. Are there any other inexpensive ADHD treatments you can suggest? I am considering a low carb diet. Are there any other inexpensive medications or other treatments you have had good luck with?
Generic methylphenidate is about as cheap as the prescription meds get. Dexedrine _may_ be a little less. Many people find that strenuous exercise helps. If you aren’t doing a regular aerobic workout you might want to find a copy of Kenneth Cooper’s "Aerobics Program for Total Well-Being" and start in on one of the programs (don’t confuse this with aerobic dance–Cooper developed his training program for the Air Force back in the ’60s and has been tweaking it ever since. Many thanks, – Vic
– –John to email, dial "usenet" and validate (was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
Response:
Hi I am now taking generic Ritalin for severe ADHD. My financial situation is terrible and I am out of work and without a drug plan. Are there any other inexpensive ADHD treatments you can suggest? I am considering a low carb diet. Are there any other inexpensive medications or other treatments you have had good luck with?
Generic ritalin is pretty cheap and probably way cheaper than any of the alternatives. However, it is a Schedule C drug and can only be prescribed for one month at a time. So, if you don’t have insurance you will have a doctor bill every month to get a new scrip. You have to have a written scrip and the doc cannot call it in. It was a little bit of a shock when I looked at the generic bottle and it said "amphetamine." All I knew about that word before was to stay away from them. Funny how life works out!
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi I am now taking generic Ritalin for severe ADHD. My financial situation is terrible and I am out of work and without a drug plan. Are there any other inexpensive ADHD treatments you can suggest? I am considering a low carb diet. Are there any other inexpensive medications or other treatments you have had good luck with? Many thanks, – Vic
A good cardio workout three to four times a week for 45 minutes helps me more than the methylphenidate does. If I skip working out because I have to study or something, I always get a lot less accomplished than if I just went ahead and invested the time in exercising first. –Patti
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi I am now taking generic Ritalin for severe ADHD. My financial situation is terrible and I am out of work and without a drug plan. Are there any other inexpensive ADHD treatments you can suggest? I am considering a low carb diet. Are there any other inexpensive medications or other treatments you have had good luck with? Generic ritalin is pretty cheap and probably way cheaper than any of the alternatives. However, it is a Schedule C drug and can only be prescribed for one month at a time. So, if you don’t have insurance you will have a doctor bill every month to get a new scrip. You have to have a written scrip and the doc cannot call it in.
I’ve never had a monthly doctor bill for the prescription. Some doctors may charge for this, but none of the several I have seen over the years has done so. It was a little bit of a shock when I looked at the generic bottle and it said "amphetamine." All I knew about that word before was to stay away from them. Funny how life works out!
– –John to email, dial "usenet" and validate (was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
Response:
Generic ritalin is pretty cheap <snip However, it is a Schedule C drug and can only be prescribed for one month at a time. So, if you don’t have insurance you will have a doctor bill every month to get a new scrip. You have to have a written scrip and the doc cannot call it in.
<snip Interestingly enough, the above doesn’t hold true where I live in Ontario, CAN or at least not for me concerning the following: – I have had no written script [except for the first one] – my Dr. doesn’t call it in – he sends it in using the Internet and his PDA – the prescription is for 2 months of 10mg tabs – that is 360 tabs at 60mg a day – I also have one renewal so the total is 4 months supply Is this unusual or just a Canadian difference in the law? Perhaps it is just a kind Dr. who is helping me out to cut down on dispensing costs? I was sure he told me just what you said when it was first prescribed to me but when I went to get my next prescription, he did like the above. Oh since first starting Ritalin, the dose went from 20mg [fantasctic results], up to 30mg as it wasn’t lasting all day and now to 60mg which isn’t any better than the 30mg. I have reduced the dosage to 30mg as the higher dosage didn’t improve things. The results are just so-so now and I am disappointed with the results and hoping there was something cheap that might do better. Thanks to all
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi I am now taking generic Ritalin for severe ADHD. My financial situation is terrible and I am out of work and without a drug plan. Are there any other inexpensive ADHD treatments you can suggest? I am considering a low carb diet. Are there any other inexpensive medications or other treatments you have had good luck with? Generic ritalin is pretty cheap and probably way cheaper than any of the alternatives. However, it is a Schedule C drug and can only be prescribed for one month at a time. So, if you don’t have insurance you will have a doctor bill every month to get a new scrip. You have to have a written scrip and the doc cannot call it in.
Where are you? Canada? The rules are different in the US, and vary somewhat by state. In my state, a new script is needed each month, but a monthly doctor’s visit isn’t required–unless your doctor insists on one. Otherwise, you just have to go to the office to pick up a new script. It was a little bit of a shock when I looked at the generic bottle and it said "amphetamine." All I knew about that word before was to stay away from them.
Are you referring to methylphenidate (generic Ritalin)? If so, seeing "amphetamine" on the bottle would be shock, since methylphenidate is not an amphetamine, although both methylphenidate and amphetamines are stimulants. Funny how life works out!
Nancy Unique, like everyone else
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi I am now taking generic Ritalin for severe ADHD. My financial situation is terrible and I am out of work and without a drug plan. Are there any other inexpensive ADHD treatments you can suggest? I am considering a low carb diet. Are there any other inexpensive medications or other treatments you have had good luck with? Generic ritalin is pretty cheap and probably way cheaper than any of the alternatives. However, it is a Schedule C drug and can only be prescribed for one month at a time. So, if you don’t have insurance you will have a doctor bill every month to get a new scrip. You have to have a written scrip and the doc cannot call it in.
Depends on the state. In Colorado you can get two months’ worth. And the doctor doesn’t make me pay for a visit every time.
Response:
A good cardio workout three to four times a week for 45 minutes helps me more than the methylphenidate does. If I skip working out because I have to study or something, I always get a lot less accomplished than if I just went ahead and invested the time in exercising first. –Patti
I used to swim laps for an hour a day… almost [see my Naykid ADHD Story] when I was working. I don’t know if it help my ADHD symptoms as I didn’t even know I had it then but it did relieve the stress. However, the absolutely best thing for me was the first couple of months on the Ritalin…. JUST FANTASCTIC and I don’t mean a high or anything. I was motivated, focused, sleeping well for the first time in my life and accomplishing things. – Vic
Response:
Depends on the state. In Colorado you can get two months’ worth. And the doctor doesn’t make me pay for a visit every time.
And here in MA I used to get a 90day prescription. Depends on the state. — Ann e-mail address is not checked
Response:
Question:
I wish I had the time to reply in the depth that you took to write out your story, but isn’t there a "No Child Left Behind Act" in effect in the US right now? This is such crap that those jerks have put you and your poor daughter through. The act is rediculous in many aspects but here is an axemplary case where it should have been utilized from the very begining and your child could have been doing better a long time ago. I’m just glad she will be getting some help very soon. Good Luck Melissa
Response:
I mentioned it before, but I think it got lost somewhere in the ether… I live in Canada, so none of the American legislation would apply to us… obviously! ;) The school board in my area gets a few ‘freebie’ assessments, but generally they spend them on either the gifted kids or the kids that are sporting obvious 666s. Unless it is a ‘medical condition’ (your garden variety overt disability), I don’t believe that OHIP (the Ontario Health Insurance Plan) would cover any of the assessments. Unless I am wrong, they are considered voluntary educational assessments and therefore do not fall under health care. Which of course, sucks. Someone had mentioned earlier that I should have had her evaluated earlier. In this area, the assessment costs in the neighbourhood of $1,600.00 and must be completed by a registered doctor of psychology. Fees for their services seem to fall in around the $195 / hour range. For someone who spent the first 11 years of her daughters life pulling in a whopping $14.00 hour, no insurance and dealing with a deadbeat dad, that was not feasible. Luckily now, I am making a great living and have health insurance which covers psychologists (in part…) It will still cost me lots of money, but now it won’t be crippling. Thanks again for all your concern, Andrea
Response:
I wish I had the time to reply in the depth that you took to write out your story, but isn’t there a "No Child Left Behind Act" in effect in the US right now? This is such crap that those jerks have put you and your poor daughter through. The act is rediculous in many aspects but here is an axemplary case where it should have been utilized from the very begining and your child could have been doing better a long time ago. I’m just glad she will be getting some help very soon. Good Luck Melissa
Well, Andrea has said she’s in Canada, so NCLB doesn’t apply. But I’d be curious in knowing what provision(s) of NCLB the schools involved with Andrea’s child have violated. Nancy Unique, like everyone else
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I wish I had the time to reply in the depth that you took to write out your story, but isn’t there a "No Child Left Behind Act" in effect in the US right now? This is such crap that those jerks have put you and your poor daughter through. The act is rediculous in many aspects but here is an axemplary case where it should have been utilized from the very begining and your child could have been doing better a long time ago. I’m just glad she will be getting some help very soon. Good Luck Melissa Well, Andrea has said she’s in Canada, so NCLB doesn’t apply.
What I meant to say, but didn’t in my previous post: But I’d be curious in knowing what provision(s) of NCLB you believe the schools involved with Andrea’s child would have violated if Andrea had been in the US, and what you believe the remedies would be. Nancy Unique, like everyone else
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I mentioned it before, but I think it got lost somewhere in the ether… I live in Canada, so none of the American legislation would apply to us… obviously! ;) The school board in my area gets a few ‘freebie’ assessments, but generally they spend them on either the gifted kids or the kids that are sporting obvious 666s. Unless it is a ‘medical condition’ (your garden variety overt disability), I don’t believe that OHIP (the Ontario Health Insurance Plan) would cover any of the assessments. Unless I am wrong, they are considered voluntary educational assessments and therefore do not fall under health care. Which of course, sucks. Someone had mentioned earlier that I should have had her evaluated earlier. In this area, the assessment costs in the neighbourhood of $1,600.00 and must be completed by a registered doctor of psychology. Fees for their services seem to fall in around the $195 / hour range. For someone who spent the first 11 years of her daughters life pulling in a whopping $14.00 hour, no insurance and dealing with a deadbeat dad, that was not feasible. Luckily now, I am making a great living and have health insurance which covers psychologists (in part…) It will still cost me lots of money, but now it won’t be crippling.
Psychology or psychiatry? Psychiatrists are the MDs who do mental health. Psychologists in general can’t prescribe meds. My guy listened to me, asked some questions, agreed that it was ADHD, and that was that–one session, about 200 bucks, then a monthly follow up for about 6 months that was about 15 minutes, and then just drop by for the scrip every month no charge with 6 month followups. If there’s suspicion of something else going on then it could get to be more, possibly a lot more. Dexedrine and generic methylphenidate run about 40 dollars a month and have the same chemistry as the fancy stuff, you just have to be more careful about timing the dose. Thanks again for all your concern, Andrea
– –John to email, dial "usenet" and validate (was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
Response:
Please, any advice / encouragement / commiseration would be much appreciated…
Andrea, I am reading book called The Organized Student in attempt to help my seventh grader with her difficulties. I can’t tell you how it will work since we haven’t implemented the ideas yet, but it seems like it will be helpful.
Response:
Sounds like my ADHD son, Karen. Would flunk his classes, mainly for not turning in assignments (notice, I didn’t say "not doing his assignments." He’d do them, for the most part, but he’d forget to turn them in or lose them between home and class. Yes! We could be talking about the same person. I know he did his assignments. Somehow they were never handed in. Somehow that open folder on the teacher’s desk clearly labeled ‘homework’ sitting *right there* as he walked into the classroom never registered…
Or the fact that the teacher was standing in the front of the room collecting the assignments. Or that other students were passing their assignments to the front of the room. "What were you doing when the other kids are passing in their work?!" I’d ask. "Didn’t you notice the papers going to the front of the room?" He’d say, "I don’t know." I finally concluded that "something" was really wrong with OS when teachers started telling me that his in-class assignments were also missing. They’d see him working on the assignments in class, but they never got handed in. That’s when I finally got on the phone and called the doctor. I wasn’t buying the school’s "oh, he’ll outgrow it" or "he’s just unmotivated" anymore. OS’s primary care doctor told me that when he hears about a child who does school assignments, but doesn’t hand them in, it’s a red flag for ADHD. A nationally known ADHD expert made the point that if you know your child does assignments, but it doesn’t get handed in, it’s clearly not an issue of "lack of motivation," which is what schools so frequently claim. Story: once OS’s assignment was to complete and hand-in 50 note cards with notes for a long term assignment in a high school English class. He did that, we’re sure, as we counted 50 notes cards before he left for school that day. He managed to lose all but 18 before English class. Then, he’d get an "A" on his exams, and end up with a C for the course. Oh, yeah. BTDT. And be told that he couldn’t accelerate because he was only earning a C, so that he was even more bored…
We were told that he couldn’t take GT, and shouldn’t take AP classes, because although he was capable of doing the work, "he won’t do the work." By that time he was so demoralized, frustrated, stressed, and disheartened that he’d lost interest in school anyway. He says he likes college though, and is doing well ATM. So there’s hope! Oh, well. He’s highly employed now doing the computer work he loves, and is much happier. I never realized he had ADD until my youngest was dxed, and he was out of school by then. My HMO required parents pursuing an ADD dx to attend a lecture on ADD and take home surveys for various people to fill out. It was no surprise that my youngest fit the criteria, but the big shock was hearing how well my son fit as well. His overwhelming intelligence compensated in many ways.
Yep. Which is why so many highly intelligent individuals aren’t diagnosed until high school, college, or as adults. Finally, these people reach the point when their intelligence can’t cover for the demands made on them. There’s an issue in the other direction too. ADHD in kids with low IQs (and AFAIK, despite the claims made that kids with ADHD are almost always highly intelligent, individuals with ADHD fall within the normal bell curve for IQ) is frequently missed because the ADHD symptoms are attributed solely to low IQ. Nancy Unique, like everyone else
Response:
For the educational assessment, it is a doctor of *psychology*. If you are diagnosed by them, then you can get a pharmiceutical recommendation, and in turn, a prescription for your MD. Ah, the flaming hoops of modern medicine! If the people I spoke to know their stuff (specifically the head of Special Ed at my daughter’s school board), they need the full psycho-educational assessment to enroll her in / develop a suitable educational plan. I think that just having her needs addressed in a realistic way by the school will be a huge leap forward. Thanks again, Andrea
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I wish I had the time to reply in the depth that you took to write out your story, but isn’t there a "No Child Left Behind Act" in effect in the US right now? This is such crap that those jerks have put you and your poor daughter through. The act is rediculous in many aspects but here is an axemplary case where it should have been utilized from the very begining and your child could have been doing better a long time ago. I’m just glad she will be getting some help very soon. Good Luck Melissa Well, Andrea has said she’s in Canada, so NCLB doesn’t apply. But I’d be curious in knowing what provision(s) of NCLB the schools involved with Andrea’s child have violated. FWIW, I started to take a look at it and found that the blasted thing runs 670 pages. In that much bureaucratese there has to be _some_ "i" they failed to dot or "t" they failed to cross <g. With 670 page laws to comply with, no wonder the schools can’t get anything done <g.
Not to mention the fact, that as in the case with IDEA, Congress has never appropriated the funds it promised to the states to put the federal mandates into effect. I am becoming more and more convinced that the Founders should have included a provision in the Constitution to the effect that all legislators must carry on their persons at all times a copy of the complete US Code printed in 12 point Times Roman on 12 pound paper.
Is that just just the text of the statute? There are also federal regulations. You don’t want to miss those! http://www.access.gpo.gov/nara/cfr/waisidx_05/34cfr200_05.html (Plus each state needs its own regulations.) All this federal law and regulation of education, which is *supposed* to be a state and local issue. Wasn’t it the current President’s party that was calling for the abolishment of the US Dept. of Education because education wasn’t a federal issue? Right now, I’m working my way through Pete Wright’s 339 page book, "No Child Left Behind," which includes the full text of NCLB, in addition to Wright’s analysis and interpretation. He must use smaller print or larger paper than the Congressional printing office did, LOL! But this book is the kind of stuff I like to read (for the most part). I just finished Wright’s 161 page book covering the 2004 Amendments to IDEA, "IDEA 2004". I’m a sick person, I know. LOL! For the most part, NCLB sets standards for schools–teacher qualifications, student assessments, program standards, school accountability. Students benefit (supposedly) by the resulting better programs, schools, and teaching. AFAIK, it only gives a small number of limited rights to individual parents or students. Nancy Unique, like everyone else
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I wish I had the time to reply in the depth that you took to write out your story, but isn’t there a "No Child Left Behind Act" in effect in the US right now? This is such crap that those jerks have put you and your poor daughter through. The act is rediculous in many aspects but here is an axemplary case where it should have been utilized from the very begining and your child could have been doing better a long time ago. I’m just glad she will be getting some help very soon. Good Luck Melissa Well, Andrea has said she’s in Canada, so NCLB doesn’t apply. But I’d be curious in knowing what provision(s) of NCLB the schools involved with Andrea’s child have violated.
FWIW, I started to take a look at it and found that the blasted thing runs 670 pages. In that much bureaucratese there has to be _some_ "i" they failed to dot or "t" they failed to cross <g. With 670 page laws to comply with, no wonder the schools can’t get anything done <g. I am becoming more and more convinced that the Founders should have included a provision in the Constitution to the effect that all legislators must carry on their persons at all times a copy of the complete US Code printed in 12 point Times Roman on 12 pound paper. — –John to email, dial "usenet" and validate (was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, I was just hoping to get some help / advice from others in the same boat. I apologize in advance, ’cause this is gonna be a long one… (but I have tried to make it at least slightly entertaining, despite the aggravation…) My daughter is currently in grade 7 and is 12 years old. She has always been extremely intelligent and precocious. Her favourite movie at the age of 3 was ‘Field of Dreams’. At this age, snuck out of bed to watch Jurassic Park and when I caught her and asked if it was scary, she said bluntly, ‘Dinosaurs are extinct. What is scary about a bunch of computer-animations?’ By 5 had decided that she wanted to be an Egyptologist and voraciously read all materials available to her (including some college level texts.) She has *always* had problems in school.
<long description of years of school problems snipped. What, if any, problems does she have outside of school? At home especially, but in public places, sports or other activities, socially? ADHD doesn’t just manifest itself in school, although the symptoms may be more noticeable and/or more problematical there. For instance, long before his academic functioning was seriously impacted, my ADHD son had symptoms, only we didn’t recognize them for what they were. For example, from very early childhood, he was the proverbial absent minded professor: forgetful, disorganized, time-blind, would frequently lose possessions. So that is where we are right now. The preliminary meeting is next Thursday and if they don’t give me some kind of diagnosis, I swear, I will be in the Bell Jar. My daughter is a very sweet and intelligent girl and she has been made to feel like she is evil / bad / lazy / apathetic / stupid / useless… (And at my most frustrated moments, by me as well as her teachers I am sorry to say…)
If you are contributing to your daughter’s poor self-image, then I strongly urge you to get some individual and family therapy. You need to deal with your own distress in a positive, productive way, plus you need to learn why your daughter behaves as she does, and how you can deal with her effectively and appropriately. Please, any advice / encouragement / commiseration would be much appreciated… Thanks again, Andrea
Good luck and best wishes to you and your daughter. Nancy Unique, like everyone else
Response:
Please, any advice / encouragement / commiseration would be much appreciated… Andrea, I am reading book called The Organized Student in attempt to help my seventh grader with her difficulties. I can’t tell you how it will work since we haven’t implemented the ideas yet, but it seems like it will be helpful.
See if you can get your hands on "New Perspectives on Educating Children with ADHD: Contributions of the Executive Functions" by Drs. Gerard A. Gioia and Peter K. Isquith (Journal of Health Care Law & Policy, Volume 5, No. 1, 2002), I’ve read it, was quite impressed, and have recommended it to parents, as well as educators. It explains why typical home and school interventions don’t work (because the typical interventions try to fix something that isn’t "broken" in kids with executive dysfunction issues) and don’t address what’s really going on with these kids. Not the easiest reading though. You also might take a look at: "Executive Skills in Children and Adolescents, a Practical Guide to Assessment and Intervention" by Peg Dawson and Richard Guare. Someone with expertise on executive dysfunction and whom I highly respect, recommended it to me, but I haven’t read it yet. It’s written primarily for educators, but the more you know about what works and what doesn’t, the better. I’d like to e-mail you something on this issue. Does your posting e-mail address work? You can e-mail me and LMK. Nancy Unique, like everyone else
Response:
Some of what I’m going to say may not sit to well. I have ADHD and I hated school and found most of it to be a waste of time, so I do sympathize with your daughter.
Heh. Well, I don’t have ADHD, yet hated school and found most of it to be a waste, and incredibly boring, at least until college and professional school. So, when my kids–only one of whom has ADHD–tell me that they don’t like school, "it’s boring," I can empathize, even though I do point out to them that their classes are much more interesting and challenging than mine were, and their teachers seem to be far superior to the ones I had way back in the last century. Given the fact that there are a number of disorders which have symptoms which may be mistaken for ADHD, and some of those (like LDs and mood disorders) are frequently comorbid with ADHD, I think it’s unwise to jump to any conclusions as to whether Andrea’s daughter might have ADHD and/or something else, or no disorder at all. Andrea mentions problems with handwriting and spelling, both of which could be signs of ADHD, LDs, both (comorbid), or neither. Andrea mentions her daughter’s anxiety several times. Anxiety disorders might cause some problems similar to ADHD. And, they are sometimes comorbid with ADHD and can exacerbate ADHD issues. OTOH, untreated ADHD might be causing the anxiety. There are also similarities in behaviors exhibited by profoundly gifted children in the typical school environment and ADHD related behaviors. Andrea needs to get her daughter to a neuropsychologist ASAP for a full psychoeducational workup, and IMO, that evaluation should be done by someone who has worked with kids who are gifted and ADHD. But helping her may be problematical. First you need to know how to help, second you need to apply that knowledge, and third, you need to bludgeon the school into cooperating to the limited extent that it is capable of doing so.
<snip (4) You’ve been letting them push you around. Talk to a lawyer about your rights and her rights–generally a good lawyer won’t charge you for the first consultation, so it doesn’t hurt anything to talk to one. You might be surprised at how efficacious a letter on a law firm’s letterhead can be in getting bureaucrats to respond, and typically it will cost about 50-100 bucks to have a lawyer send such a letter.
I’m wondering if Andrea is in the US. Some of what she has encountered in the schools shouldn’t be happening under the IDEA. OTOH, I would never claim that every school in the US is in compliance with IDEA, so she might be in the US. (I’ve also noted Andrea’s spelling isn’t standard for the US.) If Andrea is in the US, I think it’s premature to get an attorney at this point, except perhaps for a consult. What I’d suggest to Andrea is that, if she lives in the US, she educate herself about her daughter’s rights under IDEA, and Section 504 of the Rehabilitation Act of 1973, and also, very importantly, learn to become a more effective advocate. Under the IDEA, Andrea’s daughter has rights that have been ignored by her schools, but OTOH, Andrea hasn’t seemed to make any effort to really hold the schools’ feet to the legal fire. And, her attempts at dealing with teachers and school administrators seem to have been ineffective, rather inept. If Andrea is in the US, there are several ways I’d suggest for Andrea to educate herself about IDEA and learn effective advocacy skills. First, I highly recommend the Wrightslaw web site, http://wrightslaw.com. It not only has non-lawyer friendly explanations of the IDEA and Section 504, but it also has a list of resources which parents can go to for additional information and help, and I’d recommend that Andrea seek out some of those resources from her area and get whatever training, education, advice, and support they can offer her. The wrightslaw site also has excellent information on effective parental advocacy. I also would suggest that Andrea get a copy of Pete Wright’s book, "From Emotions to Advocacy," then follow Pete’s advice. (No, I’m not getting a commission from Pete Wright; I just think very highly of his knowledge and his advocacy on behalf of children with disabilities.) I can tell you that Andrea needs to put her request for an evaluation of her daughter by the school *in writing,* and if the school doesn’t respond, or refuses to do the evaluation, Andrea needs to take the next step and ask for a due process hearing. Since her daughter’s behavior in school is an issue, Andrea should ask for a functional behavioral assessment, and a behavioral intervention plan based on the results of the assessment. AFAIK, many schools will do a FBA and create a BIP for children with chronic behavior problems, even if the child does not have a disability under the IDEA or Section 504. The school can also arrange for an occupational therapist and/or physical therapist to evaluate the daughter’s problems with handwriting, to see if there’s a motor skill issue which can be addressed through appropriate therapy. Now, on to her problems. I’m no expert but what you’re describing could be ADHD Inattentive, but from your statement that she _resists_ assistance it sounds like something else may be going on, ODD maybe. Regardless, she really needs a good professional workup. You should have priced this long ago–waiting 7 years for medical insurance to pay for it can’t have helped. If by "assessment" you mean medical diagnosis, that is not the job of the schools and they are quite right to tell you that they can’t do it.
You are correct that in the US, schools cannot diagnosis ADHD. But, schools can do a number of psychoeducational tests to determine a child’s abilities (IQ, aptitude) and current level of academic functioning. Plus they can take a look at the possibility that Andrea’s daughter has fine motor skills problems that can be address with therapy. The school can also can perform a functional behavioral assessment to determine how, when, where, why, Andrea’s daughter’s behavior issues arise. Whenever a child’s inappropriate behavior in school is an issue, a FBA is, IMO, a necessity. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If she really resists reasonable efforts at assistance, and the cause can’t be identified and corrected, it may not be possible to help her, at least not without some heavy professional intervention. If she does show such resistance that seems to me to be the first thing that needs to be dealt with. If she _will_ cooperate then you and she and the school and anybody else who will help need to work with her on coping strategies. One thing that seems clear is that she hasn’t gotten down the notion that the buffoon standing in front of the classroom is going to blather about something which she is expected to regurgitate, errors and all, for the test. She needs to work on test taking strategies as well, like read every question, answer the easy ones, then the harder ones, then the hardest ones. Has anyone tried to talk to her about this stuff? Homework the same way, do the simple mechanical stuff first and get it over with then do the stuff that requires some degree of intellectual effort. If she’s leaving books and whatnot, and not writing down her assignments, I don’t know what to do about that–it’s a habit that she needs to develop and if you can’t be on her 24/7 and the teachers won’t help then it’s going to be hard for her to develop it.
Absolutely. But if Andrea’s daughter qualifies for an IEP or 504 plan, there are a number of supports and accommodations that can be written into the IEP or 504 which can help the daughter until she’s developed the skills, and should also provide for coaching/training to help her daughter develop those skills. Just some of the ways an IEP or 504 can help with these types of problems: – Provide student with extra set of textbooks to keep at home. No more forgotten books. (Of course, you’ve go to remember where you put the books at home. <sigh) – Provide for teacher assistance in writing down assignments. (And there are a number of ways that can be done, from the teacher e-mailing assignments to the child’s home, to asking to see the child’s agenda at the end of the day.) Or arrange for a "homework" buddy. If Andrea is not in the US, then IMO she still needs to: 1. Get a complete psychoeducational workup of her daughter. 2. Once she knows what medical and/or psychological issues are involved, educate herself about them, and what kinds of home and school interventions might help. (And, that may indeed include family counseling because, among other things, parents need to know how to help their child develop appropriate behaviors and coping skills.) 3. Educate herself about the laws regulating the education of children with disabilities in her country, then insist (by following whatever procedures are provided under that law for appeals, due process) that the schools do what they’re required to do under the law. 4. Find a support group of parents who can provide her with guidance, support, resources, etc. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The bad handwriting you describe could be simply lack of practice or it could be that she has poor coordination and motor skills, which might be symptomatic of a medical condition of some kind–this also should be assessed–if it’s something that she can’t _do_ anything about then there’s no point in beating her up about it. If it’s just lack of practice and if her handwriting is truly illegible then some means has to be found of inducing her to practice–does she have any interest in art? Can she reproduce heiroglyph for example? That would IMO be _excellent_ practice that would develop the same skills needed to improve her handwriting, and if she drops an occasional ibis into her compositions one would hope that
… read more »
Response:
Sounds like my ADHD son, Karen. Would flunk his classes, mainly for not turning in assignments (notice, I didn’t say "not doing his assignments." He’d do them, for the most part, but he’d forget to turn them in or lose them between home and class. Then, he’d get an "A" on his exams, and end up with a C for the course.
At least that’s better than where my son went to high school If there was even *one* missing assignment per quarter, you got an automatic "F" for the entire quarter. Even if you got "A’s" on every test.
Response:
I know several people with ODD and Asperger (obviously not the same people) and it is absolutely *not* either one of those problems. She gets aggravated, but it is just a low tolerance for frustration / need for immediate resolution. Personality-wise, she is eager to help and is very loving and attentive. Not remotely oppositional or defiant. She just gets upset when she feels like she is spinning her wheels. I have read a lot of the literature on ADHD / Inattentive and it reads like they were reporting on her specifically. Obviously it is difficult to give a total picture of her through a short narrative, but I appreciate the input.
Some books to read if you haven’t already– "You Mean I’m Not Lazy, Stupid, or Crazy" "Driven To Distraction" (by a psychiatrist with ADHD himself) "Sidetracked Home Executives" (organizational system that actually works for some ADDers, as long as no <expletive deleted tears up our cards) "1-2-3 magic" (probably too late for her, she’s at the upper age limit, but I’ve seen a number of parents of ADHD kids swear by it–probably won’t hurt to read it) "Aerobics Program for Total Well-Being" (by the guy who developed the original systematic aerobic exercise program for the Air Force, bit preachy at times but aerobic exercise _does_ help many people who have ADHD–the chemistry behind it is similar to what the prescription meds do–it’s not a substitute for meds though–in any case, it never hurts to get in shape–sticking to the program can be a problem for us though–you can help by having a nice reward for her when she completes a level). — –John to email, dial "usenet" and validate (was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I know several people with ODD and Asperger (obviously not the same people) and it is absolutely *not* either one of those problems. She gets aggravated, but it is just a low tolerance for frustration / need for immediate resolution. Personality-wise, she is eager to help and is very loving and attentive. Not remotely oppositional or defiant. She just gets upset when she feels like she is spinning her wheels. Not to quibble with your judgment, but I do want to point out that being affectionate and helpful are not incompatible with autism-spectrum issues. I have read a lot of the literature on ADHD / Inattentive and it reads like they were reporting on her specifically. Severely and profoundly gifted, also. Which brings its own set of problems, especially with ADD.
I was thinking the same thing WRT profound giftedness. It’s quite difficult to differentiate between behaviors related to profound giftedness, and those caused by ADHD, and when your child is both…. My personal guideline is that if my ADHD and gifted son was making an effort, and still was unable to do what was required of him as far as executive function skills, then that was the ADHD. But there are supposedly test which can differentiate between ADHD and giftedness: See, for example, "Gifted Children with ADHD" by Deirdre Lovecky at http://www.addresources.org/article_gifted_lovecky.php. Any assessment of a child who is apparently gifted and possibly ADHD must be done by a professional with expertise with both gifted and ADHD children. Especially when you get the teachers who refuse to accelerate because the student isn’t doing the work for the lower level courses. Never mind that they’ve aced every test. Not that I’m *bitter* — just because my son got a 5 on the AP test while failing the course…
Sounds like my ADHD son, Karen. Would flunk his classes, mainly for not turning in assignments (notice, I didn’t say "not doing his assignments." He’d do them, for the most part, but he’d forget to turn them in or lose them between home and class. Then, he’d get an "A" on his exams, and end up with a C for the course. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – She’s old enough — have you considered online correspondence classes for highly gifted students? Check out CTY and EPGY. The traditional school environment is obviously not working for her. Good luck! Karen R.
Response:
We live in Canada and despite our allegedly fabulous health care system, they are not currently treating these problems like they would a "real" disability. Very frustrating. Although, hopefully as soon as I get a diagnosis, they will be more helpful and receptive. As for the Asperger, one of my best friends is the director of an Asperger / Autism society. Obviously she is extremely well-versed in all the ins and outs of Asperger. And she would definitely *not* be shy about telling me if she thought my daughter was so afflicted… lol I have wondered if there might be an element of giftedness to her difficulties (despite the substandard DNA of her father.) I tested in the 160s in high school and much to the chagrin of all my teachers, I paid essentially zero attention in class and still managed to ace everything. After reading all the symptoms, I am wondering if I might have ADHD as well (but with the lucky ability to teach myself and cover a lot of ground before boredom set in.) As for approach / educational alternatives, I am going to wait (impatiently) for the assessment from the psychologist (and pray that he doesn’t just say, ‘All the teachers were right. It is *alllll* your fault.’) and then take it from there. Cross your fingers for me… Andrea
Response:
Sounds like my ADHD son, Karen. Would flunk his classes, mainly for not turning in assignments (notice, I didn’t say "not doing his assignments." He’d do them, for the most part, but he’d forget to turn them in or lose them between home and class.
Yes! We could be talking about the same person. I know he did his assignments. Somehow they were never handed in. Somehow that open folder on the teacher’s desk clearly labeled ‘homework’ sitting *right there* as he walked into the classroom never registered… Then, he’d get an "A" on his exams, and end up with a C for the course.
Oh, yeah. BTDT. And be told that he couldn’t accelerate because he was only earning a C, so that he was even more bored… Oh, well. He’s highly employed now doing the computer work he loves, and is much happier. I never realized he had ADD until my youngest was dxed, and he was out of school by then. My HMO required parents pursuing an ADD dx to attend a lecture on ADD and take home surveys for various people to fill out. It was no surprise that my youngest fit the criteria, but the big shock was hearing how well my son fit as well. His overwhelming intelligence compensated in many ways. But then, my DH wasn’t dxed until after our daughter was, for many of the same reasons. Karen R.
Response:
Hi Andrea, I read your post and it was as if I was transported to my childhood. I do hope all goes well with the evaluation. What are you from? This doesn’t sound like it can happen with the laws in the U.S.? I’m sure things will be getting a little easier now.
Response:
I know several people with ODD and Asperger (obviously not the same people) and it is absolutely *not* either one of those problems. She gets aggravated, but it is just a low tolerance for frustration / need for immediate resolution. Personality-wise, she is eager to help and is very loving and attentive. Not remotely oppositional or defiant. She just gets upset when she feels like she is spinning her wheels.
Not to quibble with your judgment, but I do want to point out that being affectionate and helpful are not incompatible with autism-spectrum issues. I have read a lot of the literature on ADHD / Inattentive and it reads like they were reporting on her specifically.
Severely and profoundly gifted, also. Which brings its own set of problems, especially with ADD. Especially when you get the teachers who refuse to accelerate because the student isn’t doing the work for the lower level courses. Never mind that they’ve aced every test. Not that I’m *bitter* — just because my son got a 5 on the AP test while failing the course… She’s old enough — have you considered online correspondence classes for highly gifted students? Check out CTY and EPGY. The traditional school environment is obviously not working for her. Good luck! Karen R.
Response:
She has always been extremely intelligent and precocious. Her favourite movie at the age of 3 was ‘Field of Dreams’. At this age, snuck out of bed to watch Jurassic Park and when I caught her and asked if it was scary, she said bluntly, ‘Dinosaurs are extinct. What is scary about a bunch of computer-animations?’ By 5 had decided that she wanted to be an Egyptologist and voraciously read all materials available to her (including some college level texts.)
Inattentive ADD — sounds like it. But I agree with John that something else is going on. Have you looked at Aspergers? http://www.udel.edu/bkirby/asperger/ The Maelstrom address of several of the lists on there is gone. Let me know if you are interested in any lists with that address and I should be able to track down where most of them went. Karen R.
Response:
I know several people with ODD and Asperger (obviously not the same people) and it is absolutely *not* either one of those problems. She gets aggravated, but it is just a low tolerance for frustration / need for immediate resolution. Personality-wise, she is eager to help and is very loving and attentive. Not remotely oppositional or defiant. She just gets upset when she feels like she is spinning her wheels. I have read a lot of the literature on ADHD / Inattentive and it reads like they were reporting on her specifically. Obviously it is difficult to give a total picture of her through a short narrative, but I appreciate the input. Andrea
Response:
Wow.
Response:
Some of what I’m going to say may not sit to well. I have ADHD and I hated school and found most of it to be a waste of time, so I do sympathize with your daughter. But helping her may be problematical. First you need to know how to help, second you need to apply that knowledge, and third, you need to bludgeon the school into cooperating to the limited extent that it is capable of doing so. First, some things that you say that you have done consistently that I don’t think were helpful. (1) No matter how bad the teacher is, even if she is fire-engine red and has horns and a pitchfork, don’t bad mouth her either to her face or behind her back. The more evil she is the less well she is likely to respond to this. (2) Stop volunteering so much information to people who haven’t asked for it and/or don’t need it. If you _must_ vent vocally then get a punching bag and yell at it while you’re beating on it–it won’t tell. Telling the new teacher about all your daughter’s problems and her ill treatment at the hands of the educational establishment put the teacher on the defensive and may induce her to look for trouble that wouldn’t otherwise occur. (3) Telling teachers how to teach is a low percentage proposition–no matter how incompetent they may be, they _think_ they are experts, and trying to convince them otherwise is about as likely of success as trying to teach desert survival to a fish. The smart ones who are sane and have experience will listen to you but the smart ones have for the most part either been driven insane by the system or have found other work–there area few superstars who can thrive in that system but they are exceedingly rare, so don’t expect to ever see one. (4) You’ve been letting them push you around. Talk to a lawyer about your rights and her rights–generally a good lawyer won’t charge you for the first consultation, so it doesn’t hurt anything to talk to one. You might be surprised at how efficacious a letter on a law firm’s letterhead can be in getting bureaucrats to respond, and typically it will cost about 50-100 bucks to have a lawyer send such a letter. Now, on to her problems. I’m no expert but what you’re describing could be ADHD Inattentive, but from your statement that she _resists_ assistance it sounds like something else may be going on, ODD maybe. Regardless, she really needs a good professional workup. You should have priced this long ago–waiting 7 years for medical insurance to pay for it can’t have helped. If by "assessment" you mean medical diagnosis, that is not the job of the schools and they are quite right to tell you that they can’t do it. If she really resists reasonable efforts at assistance, and the cause can’t be identified and corrected, it may not be possible to help her, at least not without some heavy professional intervention. If she does show such resistance that seems to me to be the first thing that needs to be dealt with. If she _will_ cooperate then you and she and the school and anybody else who will help need to work with her on coping strategies. One thing that seems clear is that she hasn’t gotten down the notion that the buffoon standing in front of the classroom is going to blather about something which she is expected to regurgitate, errors and all, for the test. She needs to work on test taking strategies as well, like read every question, answer the easy ones, then the harder ones, then the hardest ones. Has anyone tried to talk to her about this stuff? Homework the same way, do the simple mechanical stuff first and get it over with then do the stuff that requires some degree of intellectual effort. If she’s leaving books and whatnot, and not writing down her assignments, I don’t know what to do about that–it’s a habit that she needs to develop and if you can’t be on her 24/7 and the teachers won’t help then it’s going to be hard for her to develop it. The bad handwriting you describe could be simply lack of practice or it could be that she has poor coordination and motor skills, which might be symptomatic of a medical condition of some kind–this also should be assessed–if it’s something that she can’t _do_ anything about then there’s no point in beating her up about it. If it’s just lack of practice and if her handwriting is truly illegible then some means has to be found of inducing her to practice–does she have any interest in art? Can she reproduce heiroglyph for example? That would IMO be _excellent_ practice that would develop the same skills needed to improve her handwriting, and if she drops an occasional ibis into her compositions one would hope that the teacher has a sense of humor. You said that she "tended to talk throughout class and was insistent in telling long, convoluted stories at inappropriate times". Has she told you any of these stories? If not, could you encourage her to do so? Are they any good? Does she write them down? This might be her niche. An ADHD or ODD or whatever diagnosis doesn’t mean that she’s going to be cured–the treatments for ADHD sometimes help a great deal and sometimes not at all. With diagnosis in hand and lawyer on retainer though, you should be able to beat the schools into being a bit more cooperative. I wish you well. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, I was just hoping to get some help / advice from others in the same boat. I apologize in advance, ’cause this is gonna be a long one… (but I have tried to make it at least slightly entertaining, despite the aggravation…) My daughter is currently in grade 7 and is 12 years old. She has always been extremely intelligent and precocious. Her favourite movie at the age of 3 was ‘Field of Dreams’. At this age, snuck out of bed to watch Jurassic Park and when I caught her and asked if it was scary, she said bluntly, ‘Dinosaurs are extinct. What is scary about a bunch of computer-animations?’ By 5 had decided that she wanted to be an Egyptologist and voraciously read all materials available to her (including some college level texts.) She has *always* had problems in school. Kindergarten: Evil teacher recruited from the seventh level of Hell to torture children and parents alike. Sneered at me when I mentioned I was a single parent. During parent / teacher interview, suggested that my daughter was ‘not too bright’ since she didn’t know any of her colours / numbers / letters. I assured her that she did in fact know all those things. Apparently, she would be playing (it *was* kindergarten, after all) and would be called out to perform the Alphabet or whatever. She would ignore the request or shut down under the pressure of the situation. Didn’t listen to instructions, would become ‘hyper-focussed’ (my assessment) on the task at hand and become unconscious of her environment. Would become extremely agitated if multiple requests were made of her. Talk-talk-talk-talk-talk. Not hyperactive in any ‘climbing the walls’ / ‘throttling the teacher’ kind of way (though I would have relished the latter.) Was labelled a ‘problem child’, but at no time did the teacher indicate that there may be any problem other than my parenting skills. Report card – indicated that she had not mastered any of the basic skills, was belligerent, was purposefully ignorant and willful… essentially that she was probably concealing 6s under her hair. Grades 1 & 2: Romper Room style teachers, nice but not exactly pushing the educational envelope. Very pleasant to me, in a vague way. Obviously completely bought into the kindergarten teacher’s assessment. When I disputed the fact, smiled blythely at me and said ‘well, you *are* her mother…’ Both classes had 28 boys and 4 girls, so unless my daughter had shown up at school with an AK-47, she was basically invisible. Since the curriculum was far below her abilities and knowledge level (she was already reading chapter books) and the workload was minimal (I figure her teachers were spending the days trying to herd the boys and fending off thoughts of suicide), she was able to manage the workload to an extent. However, her handwriting was illegible, her spelling was atrocious and most of her tests came back loaded with blank spaces. Report cards – indicated that she didn’t pay attention in class or ‘try’, tended to talk throughout class and was insistent in telling long, convoluted stories at inappropriate times, rushed through her work, was hyper-sensitive to criticism and had an extremely difficult time making / keeping friends. Marks – mostly Cs, some Bs. Grade 3: Sh*t officially hits the fan. Teacher is best friend of kindergarten wench. First day of school tells me in no uncertain terms that she is ‘aware’ of my daughter’s problems and that she will not be taking any crap from her (or from me apparently.) No other class available (small school). My daughter starts coming home from school hysterical, telling me that she is going to kill herself. I confront the teacher and am told that it is ‘obvious’ that I am the problem, since all the other kids in the class are perfect angels. My daughter spends approximately 3 months sitting in the hallway, crying. I complain to the principal and she reiterates that my daughter ‘obviously has a behavioural problem’ and that since all the teachers have had problems with her, the problem must be coming from *me*. I tell her that I will not subject my daughter to the abuses she is suffering at the hands of this teacher (being called ’stupid’ in front of the class, constantly being the focus of negative commentary, being told ‘I am sick of you. Your mother should get her act together’ in front of the class, ad nauseum…) so I am going to homeschool her (luckily worked at home). Pull her out of school. Teacher calls Children’s Aid Society after I tell
… read more »
Response:
Hi, I was just hoping to get some help / advice from others in the same boat. I apologize in advance, ’cause this is gonna be a long one… (but I have tried to make it at least slightly entertaining, despite the aggravation…) My daughter is currently in grade 7 and is 12 years old. She has always been extremely intelligent and precocious. Her favourite movie at the age of 3 was ‘Field of Dreams’. At this age, snuck out of bed to watch Jurassic Park and when I caught her and asked if it was scary, she said bluntly, ‘Dinosaurs are extinct. What is scary about a bunch of computer-animations?’ By 5 had decided that she wanted to be an Egyptologist and voraciously read all materials available to her (including some college level texts.) She has *always* had problems in school. Kindergarten: Evil teacher recruited from the seventh level of Hell to torture children and parents alike. Sneered at me when I mentioned I was a single parent. During parent / teacher interview, suggested that my daughter was ‘not too bright’ since she didn’t know any of her colours / numbers / letters. I assured her that she did in fact know all those things. Apparently, she would be playing (it *was* kindergarten, after all) and would be called out to perform the Alphabet or whatever. She would ignore the request or shut down under the pressure of the situation. Didn’t listen to instructions, would become ‘hyper-focussed’ (my assessment) on the task at hand and become unconscious of her environment. Would become extremely agitated if multiple requests were made of her. Talk-talk-talk-talk-talk. Not hyperactive in any ‘climbing the walls’ / ‘throttling the teacher’ kind of way (though I would have relished the latter.) Was labelled a ‘problem child’, but at no time did the teacher indicate that there may be any problem other than my parenting skills. Report card – indicated that she had not mastered any of the basic skills, was belligerent, was purposefully ignorant and willful… essentially that she was probably concealing 6s under her hair. Grades 1 & 2: Romper Room style teachers, nice but not exactly pushing the educational envelope. Very pleasant to me, in a vague way. Obviously completely bought into the kindergarten teacher’s assessment. When I disputed the fact, smiled blythely at me and said ‘well, you *are* her mother…’ Both classes had 28 boys and 4 girls, so unless my daughter had shown up at school with an AK-47, she was basically invisible. Since the curriculum was far below her abilities and knowledge level (she was already reading chapter books) and the workload was minimal (I figure her teachers were spending the days trying to herd the boys and fending off thoughts of suicide), she was able to manage the workload to an extent. However, her handwriting was illegible, her spelling was atrocious and most of her tests came back loaded with blank spaces. Report cards – indicated that she didn’t pay attention in class or ‘try’, tended to talk throughout class and was insistent in telling long, convoluted stories at inappropriate times, rushed through her work, was hyper-sensitive to criticism and had an extremely difficult time making / keeping friends. Marks – mostly Cs, some Bs. Grade 3: Sh*t officially hits the fan. Teacher is best friend of kindergarten wench. First day of school tells me in no uncertain terms that she is ‘aware’ of my daughter’s problems and that she will not be taking any crap from her (or from me apparently.) No other class available (small school). My daughter starts coming home from school hysterical, telling me that she is going to kill herself. I confront the teacher and am told that it is ‘obvious’ that I am the problem, since all the other kids in the class are perfect angels. My daughter spends approximately 3 months sitting in the hallway, crying. I complain to the principal and she reiterates that my daughter ‘obviously has a behavioural problem’ and that since all the teachers have had problems with her, the problem must be coming from *me*. I tell her that I will not subject my daughter to the abuses she is suffering at the hands of this teacher (being called ’stupid’ in front of the class, constantly being the focus of negative commentary, being told ‘I am sick of you. Your mother should get her act together’ in front of the class, ad nauseum…) so I am going to homeschool her (luckily worked at home). Pull her out of school. Teacher calls Children’s Aid Society after I tell everyone in our small town what went down. CAS Assessment – home life is fine. No other school available for placement (rigid boundaries / board unwilling to make exceptions because then ‘everyone will want to pick their kid’s school’) Homeschool from November through June. Same difficulties, though to a lesser extent (probably due to more focussed environment, one-on-one attention, emphasis on topics that she enjoys / material presenting in a format she finds interesting – ex. math problems with a bend towards Egyptology). Still has horrible handwriting and spelling, wants to rush through work, intolerance for ‘boring’ subjects, hyper-focus on things she enjoys – ex. a nuclear device could be detonated next to her while she reads Harry Potter. Report card from first term – as you would imagine. Marks – mostly Ds, couple Cs from the first term… person. I gave her straight As — ;) Grade 4: Due to financial duress, I am forced to return to work. Enroll my daughter at different school under my mother’s address. Go into the school and tell them about our previous difficulties. Am told ‘gee, that is hard to believe.’ Realize that things are probably not going to improve. Beg for assessment. Denied. Assured that she just requires a strict disciplinarian. Spends most of grade 4 crying in the hallway and in detention. Same problems, always ‘forgets’ materials / homework / assignments. Books are a complete mess. Everything is late. Complete resistance to help both in and out of school. Teacher is nice to her (at least nicer than the previous), but problems continue and escalate. Teachers reluctant to speak to me because the last school has labelled me ‘difficult’ (on her permanent record no less.) Am told continuously that if *I* will shape up, all the problems will dissolve away. I make charts, write computer programs, have schedules… all to no avail. Constantly ask for assessments. Denied. Report card – same issues, told (in politically correct language) that her problems are due to laziness, disorganization and apathy. Marks – mix of Cs and Ds. Grade 5: Starts out alright, teacher is receptive and tries to give her extra help. Same problems continue. I am offered an excellent job in another city and we move. Again, I go into the school and tell them about the previous problems. Have meeting with teacher and principal. Find out she is a long-term sub and this is her first teaching job (oh-oh) When I explain all of my daughter’s problems and behaviours and explain how to best deal with them, she looks at me stone-faced and says ‘Don’t tell me how to do my job.’ Somewhere in the distance, I hear Satan laughing. Within one week, my daughter has been suspended (for ‘ignoring’ a request by the teacher), has spent ever lunch hour and recess in detention, and has been told by this b*tch ‘I have read your file and don’t think for a minute I am going to let you get away with any of that.’ Problems skyrocket into ionosphere. Spends every evening crying (mention school and there would be hysteria), constants tells me that she is going to kill herself, every morning I have to fight with her to go (and who can blame her?!?) Complain to teacher, principal, school board. Am told that perhaps I should consider family counselling. Demand assessment. Denied. Plot death of teacher and entire educational system. Try my best to help her with her homework, but get stonewalled at the school. Consider fire-bombing administrative wing to destroy ‘permanent record’. Am told over and over and over that my daughter’s problems are family problems and have nothing to do with learning disability / school system. Start to worry that maybe they are right… Frustration, depression, aggravation follow. And my daughter is pretty stressed out too… Report card – deja vu. Marks – mostly Ds, couple Cs (passed grade probably just to offload us onto the next teacher.) Grade 6: Move one town over and start another school. Didn’t learn and went in and spoke to principal about previous horrorshow. Face went all tight and pickled looking. Went and spoke to the teacher. *Wonderful* man. Treats my daughter like gold. Much improvement in attitude and temperment. However, homework / schoolwork problems continue. Tests left blank, assignments unfinished, messiness and disorganization out of control. Still very easily frustrated. Rushes through all schoolwork. Forgets *everything* at school. Report card – glowing in terms of personality, but other problems still outlined (but in a *nice* way), still no mention of potential learning / attention disability. Marks – mostly Cs, couple Ds. Worries mount over junior high… Grade 7 (current): Spoke to teacher(s) and principal about history, emphasized good experience in Grade 6. Found out previous teacher had contacted school and walked teacher through appropriate ‘handling’. Seriously consider driving over and kissing him on the lips. Teachers are receptive, but because this is junior high, there are *8* of them. Problems continue. Detention at least 3 times a week. Constantly late both for school and with assignments. Meticulous detail put into some projects, most just forgotten. Most tests loaded with blanks (due to panic or obsession with a single question.) No concept of the passage of time. Becomes completely agitated when asked to handle more than one task. Forgets books / materials in locker.
… read more »
Response:
Question:
They’re not on the same spectrum. There are a few overlapping symptoms, as there are with a myriad other conditions of the mind. Both have been traced to the same region of chromosome 16.
Doesn’t mean they’re on the same spectrum. From chromosomal origin to phenotypical expression is an extremely long way ! The symptomology is inter-related. Yes, they are distinct, but they are also related.
I doubt in a functional way. Check the archives:
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=3DC2DF2F.C8900035%40bcpl.net&out… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Kitten True evangelical faith cannot lie dormant. It clothes the naked, feeds the hungry, comforts the sorrowful, shelters the destitute. And serves those who harm it. – Menno Simons, 1539 Courage, Real courage, is no quick fix. It doesn’t come in a bottle or a pill, It comes from discipline. From taking everything life hands you and being your best either because of it or in spite of it. — Ty Murray
Response:
IMNSHO, it’s not on the spectrum or every ADDer would be a geek (as autoids freely admit to being). I’m more of a geek than is my autistic niece. She has more of the family’s artistic tendencies than I do.
A high-functioning autoid (read Aspie) would be a geek. A full blown autistic lacks sufficient social function to qualify for geekdom. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Kitten True evangelical faith cannot lie dormant. It clothes the naked, feeds the hungry, comforts the sorrowful, shelters the destitute. And serves those who harm it. – Menno Simons, 1539 Courage, Real courage, is no quick fix. It doesn’t come in a bottle or a pill, It comes from discipline. From taking everything life hands you and being your best either because of it or in spite of it. — Ty Murray
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Could someone kindly explain what this means please? How are you with math? Do you remember using number lines? It’s kinda like a number line. ADHD Asperger’s Autism Extremely mild ADHD is at the far left. Extreme Autism is at the far right. In-between, they kind blend together. My autistic niece’s symptoms are like my ADHD symptoms times abt 100.
I have heard this idea, and agree that there might be some merit. There is often a lot of "overlap" of symptoms, especially when discussing ADHD and aspergers…so much so that the two have sometimes been seen as co-morbid. Right now my son is dealing with a disagnosis of ADHD/gifted/asperger/sensory integration disorder. If AS and ADHD are in the same spectrum, then this might not be totally correct, but it is an effective tool as a label in getting him the hings he needs to succeed at school. FWIW, his older brother has "only" ADHD, and I have ADHD and some mild sensory integration problems (similar to my son’s, but much less). The apple doesn’t fall far from the tree….or should I say the moth doesn’t fly far from this light <g Buny
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – They’re not on the same spectrum. There are a few overlapping symptoms, as there are with a myriad other conditions of the mind. Both have been traced to the same region of chromosome 16. The symptomology is inter-related. Yes, they are distinct, but they are also related. Check the archives:
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=3DC2DF2F.C8900035%40bcpl.net&out… Unfortunately, the Medscape article Nancy cited there has expired. I found another article on Chromosome 16 and ADHD/autism here, though: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2002/10/021023065107.htm Buny
Response:
FWIW, his older brother has "only" ADHD, and I have ADHD and some mild sensory integration problems (similar to my son’s, but much less). The apple doesn’t fall far from the tree….or should I say the moth doesn’t fly far from this light <g
In our family, the more ADHD symptoms there are, the more sensory issues there are, too. Some days, it’s soooo hard to get Mike, OS, and YD to understand that noises/touches/lights actually HURT. It’s outside their realm of experience, so it’s just hard for them to get. Kitten True evangelical faith cannot lie dormant. It clothes the naked, feeds the hungry, comforts the sorrowful, shelters the destitute. And serves those who harm it. – Menno Simons, 1539 Courage, Real courage, is no quick fix. It doesn’t come in a bottle or a pill, It comes from discipline. From taking everything life hands you and being your best either because of it or in spite of it. — Ty Murray
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – IMNSHO, it’s not on the spectrum or every ADDer would be a geek (as autoids freely admit to being). I’m more of a geek than is my autistic niece. She has more of the family’s artistic tendencies than I do. A high-functioning autoid (read Aspie) would be a geek. A full blown autistic lacks sufficient social function to qualify for geekdom.
I doubt that all on alt.support.autism would agree. Buny
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – IMNSHO, it’s not on the spectrum or every ADDer would be a geek (as autoids freely admit to being). I’m more of a geek than is my autistic niece. She has more of the family’s artistic tendencies than I do. A high-functioning autoid (read Aspie) would be a geek. A full blown autistic lacks sufficient social function to qualify for geekdom. I doubt that all on alt.support.autism would agree.
Heh. I wasn’t going to go there. I’m wondering what Dr. Temple Granden (sp?) would think of the comment. Kitten True evangelical faith cannot lie dormant. It clothes the naked, feeds the hungry, comforts the sorrowful, shelters the destitute. And serves those who harm it. – Menno Simons, 1539 Courage, Real courage, is no quick fix. It doesn’t come in a bottle or a pill, It comes from discipline. From taking everything life hands you and being your best either because of it or in spite of it. — Ty Murray
Response:
Unfortunately, the Medscape article Nancy cited there has expired. I found another article on Chromosome 16 and ADHD/autism here, though: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2002/10/021023065107.htm
In particular, please note this paragraph: "Their research, published in the October edition of the American Journal of Human Genetics, suggests that the suspected risk gene may contribute as much as 30 percent of the underlying genetic cause of ADHD and may also be involved in the separate childhood onset disorder, autism." Yes, they list autism as seperate, but note that autism and ADHD may have the same genetic source in some cases. Kitten True evangelical faith cannot lie dormant. It clothes the naked, feeds the hungry, comforts the sorrowful, shelters the destitute. And serves those who harm it. – Menno Simons, 1539 Courage, Real courage, is no quick fix. It doesn’t come in a bottle or a pill, It comes from discipline. From taking everything life hands you and being your best either because of it or in spite of it. — Ty Murray
Response:
Could someone kindly explain what this means please?
I’ve read most of the responses in this thread now. My experience has been kind of backward, but here’s how I see the two relating. I used to think I maybe had Asperger’s Syndrome. I have a lot of social skill deficits and many sensory difficulties on top of them, and I’m a tad obsessive (perseverative). I also have executive functioning issues. But… ADD explains all of the above, as well as my distractability! Discovering web sites that described ADD in women was like coming home – it just felt right. It explained me. I’ve been trying to explain myself since I was small, and ADD just explains it all. I, personally, don’t agree with a dual dx of ADD and ASD, because most of the things people are calling ADD in that kind of dual dx are included in the autism dx. BUT – you do what will get you appropriate services, right? I do know how difficult it can be to get kids treated properly in school, especially if they are able to appear/act "normal". On this topic, slightly related… Would it be possible, do you think, to suffer emotional abuse as a result of not having an appropriate diagnosis? I’m thinking teachers and parents would be the main instigators, as kids can be cruel but often are pretty accepting if they grow up with "that one over there is just a little different, but fun to talk to". And it wouldn’t be purposeful abuse – it would be just treating someone the way you’d treat any other child… but if that child has undiagnosed ADD or Sensory Processing Dysfunction or even AS, that could be experienced as abuse. I don’t know, maybe that’s a question for the abuse newsgroup. But it was on my mind, and it sort of related, so I wrote it out. Felt good to articulate it, at least. :) Now, I must head to work. -JL
Response:
<snipped Would it be possible, do you think, to suffer emotional abuse as a result of not having an appropriate diagnosis? I’m thinking teachers and parents would be the main instigators, as kids can be cruel but often are pretty accepting if they grow up with "that one over there is just a little different, but fun to talk to". And it wouldn’t be purposeful abuse – it would be just treating someone the way you’d treat any other child… but if that child has undiagnosed ADD or Sensory Processing Dysfunction or even AS, that could be experienced as abuse. I don’t know, maybe that’s a question for the abuse newsgroup. But it was on my mind, and it sort of related, so I wrote it out. Felt good to articulate it, at least. :)
hmmm… interesting question. Mind if I take it with me to class tonight? Of course, the abuse discussion was a couple weeks back, but it’s an interesting question. One of the other prospective adoptive moms is a counselor with ADHD in her family. She and I have some interesting discussions. Kitten True evangelical faith cannot lie dormant. It clothes the naked, feeds the hungry, comforts the sorrowful, shelters the destitute. And serves those who harm it. – Menno Simons, 1539 Courage, Real courage, is no quick fix. It doesn’t come in a bottle or a pill, It comes from discipline. From taking everything life hands you and being your best either because of it or in spite of it. — Ty Murray
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – In particular, please note this paragraph: "Their research, published in the October edition of the American Journal of Human Genetics, suggests that the suspected risk gene may contribute as much as 30 percent of the underlying genetic cause of ADHD and may also be involved in the separate childhood onset disorder, autism." Yes, they list autism as seperate, but note that autism and ADHD may have the same genetic source in some cases. what struck me is the similarite sconcerning ‘ef’ issues, just that in adhd/add it’s called ‘procastrination’. (:))
Well, ya know, if you give it a different name, people won’t realize it’s the *same*damn*thing*. Kinda like hyperfocus and perserverance. Kitten True evangelical faith cannot lie dormant. It clothes the naked, feeds the hungry, comforts the sorrowful, shelters the destitute. And serves those who harm it. – Menno Simons, 1539 Courage, Real courage, is no quick fix. It doesn’t come in a bottle or a pill, It comes from discipline. From taking everything life hands you and being your best either because of it or in spite of it. — Ty Murray
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – <snipped Would it be possible, do you think, to suffer emotional abuse as a result of not having an appropriate diagnosis? I’m thinking teachers and parents would be the main instigators, as kids can be cruel but often are pretty accepting if they grow up with "that one over there is just a little different, but fun to talk to". And it wouldn’t be purposeful abuse – it would be just treating someone the way you’d treat any other child… but if that child has undiagnosed ADD or Sensory Processing Dysfunction or even AS, that could be experienced as abuse. I don’t know, maybe that’s a question for the abuse newsgroup. But it was on my mind, and it sort of related, so I wrote it out. Felt good to articulate it, at least. :) hmmm… interesting question. Mind if I take it with me to class tonight? Of course, the abuse discussion was a couple weeks back, but it’s an interesting question. One of the other prospective adoptive moms is a counselor with ADHD in her family. She and I have some interesting discussions.
Go ahead – let me know what (if anything) people come up with. -JL
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – In particular, please note this paragraph: "Their research, published in the October edition of the American Journal of Human Genetics, suggests that the suspected risk gene may contribute as much as 30 percent of the underlying genetic cause of ADHD and may also be involved in the separate childhood onset disorder, autism." Yes, they list autism as seperate, but note that autism and ADHD may have the same genetic source in some cases. what struck me is the similarite sconcerning ‘ef’ issues, just that in adhd/add it’s called ‘procastrination’. (:)) Well, ya know, if you give it a different name, people won’t realize it’s the *same*damn*thing*. Kinda like hyperfocus and perserverance. Kitten True evangelical faith cannot lie dormant. It clothes the naked, feeds the hungry, comforts the sorrowful, shelters the destitute. And serves those who harm it. – Menno Simons, 1539 Courage, Real courage, is no quick fix. It doesn’t come in a bottle or a pill, It comes from discipline. From taking everything life hands you and being your best either because of it or in spite of it. — Ty Murray
Gotta disagree with that one (my opinion only ) I can persevere with something but for me hyperfocus is COMPLETELY different. If I persevere I can put down what Im doing and come back later, time takes its normal course. Im completely aware of my surroundings and happy to interact. If I hyperfocus all I can see is the job at hand time doesnt mean a great deal and Id say Im much less visually aware of my surroundings. Ive started on a job early in the morning and worked through breakfast,lunch and dinner till 3am and only felt an hour or two had past. Rod
Response:
… I used to think I maybe had Asperger’s Syndrome. I have a lot of social skill deficits and many sensory difficulties on top of them, and I’m a tad obsessive (perseverative). I also have executive functioning issues.
Years ago, I was diagnosed with ADD, and now I’m suspected of having Asperger’s syndrome. I’ve definitely got the social skill deficits of Asperger’s syndrome, anyway, even if I don’t have the lack of creativity component of it. I seem to be on the borderline between ADD and Asperger’s syndrome. I, personally, don’t agree with a dual dx of ADD and ASD, because most of the things people are calling ADD in that kind of dual dx are included in the autism dx. BUT – you do what will get you appropriate services, right? I do know how difficult it can be to get kids treated properly in school, especially if they are able to appear/act "normal".
In my nonprofessional opinion, if there are prominent signs of distractability and/or hyperactivity, a dual diagnosis of ADD (or ADHD) and an autistic spectrum disorder may be appropriate. In my case, it’s certainly appropriate because often it’s the typical ADD things that cause me inconvenience; at other times, it is the pedantic Asperger’s traits. On this topic, slightly related… Would it be possible, do you think, to suffer emotional abuse as a result of not having an appropriate diagnosis? I’m thinking teachers and parents would be the main instigators, as kids can be cruel but often are pretty accepting if they grow up with "that one over there is just a little different, but fun to talk to". And it wouldn’t be purposeful abuse – it would be just treating someone the way you’d treat any other child… but if that child has undiagnosed ADD or Sensory Processing Dysfunction or even AS, that could be experienced as abuse.
You know, I’ve been wondering almost the same thing! Could punishments that would be fine for most children constitute abuse in children with certain neurological conditions? In a sense, I think so. Whether this constitutes child abuse in the legal sense is a question open to debate: In my opinion, if the parent/guardian/teacher/caregiver is unaware of the differences, he or she is not at fault for treating a child with ADD or Asperger’s the same as any other child. However, punishments and teasing that most children can walk away from with little long-term harm may have the effect of genuine abuse on neurologically different children.
Response:
On this topic, slightly related… Would it be possible, do you think, to suffer emotional abuse as a result of not having an appropriate diagnosis? I’m thinking teachers and parents would be the main instigators, as kids can be cruel but often are pretty accepting if they grow up with "that one over there is just a little different, but fun to talk to". And it wouldn’t be purposeful abuse – it would be just treating someone the way you’d treat any other child… but if that child has undiagnosed ADD or Sensory Processing Dysfunction or even AS, that could be experienced as abuse. I don’t know, maybe that’s a question for the abuse newsgroup. But it was on my mind, and it sort of related, so I wrote it out. Felt good to articulate it, at least. :)
I do not know if it woudl quailfy as abuse, but it is (finally) documented that my son suffered harrassment in elementary school from a few socially astute "Eddie Haskells" (a character from "Leave it to Beaver"…he was always perfectly behaved around adults, but was a demon when they were not around, always getting beaver into trouble)…I heard "off the record’ from several teacher friends that "<my son takes a lot of crap from the other kids." It was not until 5th grade, when he finally got a 1:1 aide that the harrassment stopped–the aide was witness to many occasions, and intervened when the teacher went after my son–the others would set him up (harp on his triggers until he finally had enough and either had a meltdown or physically struck back to get them to stop…they would then go crying to the teacher that "______ hit me for no reason…."), and the teacher would–as they had been for years–heap all the blame on my son while the others sat back and watched the entertainment. The aide saw this pattenr quickly, and when the teacher started to heap punishment on my son, he said, "Wat a second…you did not see what <names of harrassers have been doing to him all day…let me tell you about it," and he would whip out his notebook and go down a long list of incidents that my son had put up with all day without reaction….and the harrassment finally stopped. He is entering high school this fall, after 3 uneventful years in middle school (with same aide). We were going to go without the aide, but after some thought, we will keep him one more year. The kids from the elementary school went to two different middle schools, and will meet again next year in the same high school. We are a bit concerned about the Eddie Haskells that went to the other middle school, and will meet up with my son after three years… <fingers crossed I do agree that kids who are not socially astute make "good victims" unless we can give them the training they need to survive. Buny
Response:
Could someone kindly explain what this means please? How are you with math? Do you remember using number lines? It’s kinda like a number line. ADHD Asperger’s Autism Extremely mild ADHD is at the far left. Extreme Autism is at the far right. In-between, they kind blend together.
Actually "normal" would be on the left, with all of the above shifted tot he right. Or perhaps "normal" is in the center, and something else is on the left as the opposite of ADD / Asperger / Autism. Like "politician" Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD" To reply, remove the TRABoD! <<< Kaplow Klips & Baffle: http://nira-rocketry.org/LeadingEdge/Phantom4000.pdf www.encompasserve.org/~kaplow_r/ www.nira-rocketry.org www.nar.org Save Model Rocketry from the HSA! http://www.space-rockets.com/congress.html
Response:
If you want some first hand information about autism from people more or less in the middle of the range try the asperger’s syndrome support group, alt.support.aspergers or something like that–asperger’s is generally
I don’t see this on my newsreader. Can someone either correct this if its wrong, or let me know it’s correct and I’ll ask that it be made available on my server. Thanks. Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD" To reply, remove the TRABoD! <<< Kaplow Klips & Baffle: http://nira-rocketry.org/LeadingEdge/Phantom4000.pdf www.encompasserve.org/~kaplow_r/ www.nira-rocketry.org www.nar.org Save Model Rocketry from the HSA! http://www.space-rockets.com/congress.html
Response:
I don’t see this on my newsreader. Can someone either correct this if its wrong, or let me know it’s correct and I’ll ask that it be made available on my server.
If I recall correctly people with Asperger’s are using alt.support.autism and don’t have a separate group as yet. Vashti
Response:
IMNSHO, it’s not on the spectrum or every ADDer would be a geek (as autoids freely admit to being).
I’m more of a geek than is my autistic niece. She has more of the family’s artistic tendencies than I do. Kitten True evangelical faith cannot lie dormant. It clothes the naked, feeds the hungry, comforts the sorrowful, shelters the destitute. And serves those who harm it. – Menno Simons, 1539 Courage, Real courage, is no quick fix. It doesn’t come in a bottle or a pill, It comes from discipline. From taking everything life hands you and being your best either because of it or in spite of it. — Ty Murray
Response:
They’re not on the same spectrum. There are a few overlapping symptoms, as there are with a myriad other conditions of the mind.
Both have been traced to the same region of chromosome 16. The symptomology is inter-related. Yes, they are distinct, but they are also related. Check the archives: http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=3DC2DF2F.C8900035%40bcpl.net&out… Kitten True evangelical faith cannot lie dormant. It clothes the naked, feeds the hungry, comforts the sorrowful, shelters the destitute. And serves those who harm it. – Menno Simons, 1539 Courage, Real courage, is no quick fix. It doesn’t come in a bottle or a pill, It comes from discipline. From taking everything life hands you and being your best either because of it or in spite of it. — Ty Murray
Response:
Could someone kindly explain what this means please?
Google "autism" and you’ll get a lot of information. Once you’ve got an idea about autism, then it becomes simple. There are degrees of autism, from totally disabling down to almost unnoticeable. There’s also a notion, not widely supported at this time, that ADHD is a form of autism on the mild end of that range. If you want some first hand information about autism from people more or less in the middle of the range try the asperger’s syndrome support group, alt.support.aspergers or something like that–asperger’s is generally agreed to be a form of autism, so those folks can give you an idea of what it’s like to live inside autism. Be warned, if you’re neurotypical you’ll find your first attempt to discuss something with an autistic who disagrees with you to be a frustrating but highly enlightening experience. — –John Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net (was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
Response:
IMNSHO, it’s not on the spectrum or every ADDer would be a geek (as autoids freely admit to being).
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Could someone kindly explain what this means please?
Response:
They’re not on the same spectrum. There are a few overlapping symptoms, as there are with a myriad other conditions of the mind. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Could someone kindly explain what this means please? How are you with math? Do you remember using number lines? It’s kinda like a number line. ADHD Asperger’s Autism Extremely mild ADHD is at the far left. Extreme Autism is at the far right. In-between, they kind blend together. My autistic niece’s symptoms are like my ADHD symptoms times abt 100. Kitten True evangelical faith cannot lie dormant. It clothes the naked, feeds the hungry, comforts the sorrowful, shelters the destitute. And serves those who harm it. – Menno Simons, 1539 Courage, Real courage, is no quick fix. It doesn’t come in a bottle or a pill, It comes from discipline. From taking everything life hands you and being your best either because of it or in spite of it. — Ty Murray
Response:
Could someone kindly explain what this means please?
Response:
Could someone kindly explain what this means please?
How are you with math? Do you remember using number lines? It’s kinda like a number line. ADHD Asperger’s Autism Extremely mild ADHD is at the far left. Extreme Autism is at the far right. In-between, they kind blend together. My autistic niece’s symptoms are like my ADHD symptoms times abt 100. Kitten True evangelical faith cannot lie dormant. It clothes the naked, feeds the hungry, comforts the sorrowful, shelters the destitute. And serves those who harm it. – Menno Simons, 1539 Courage, Real courage, is no quick fix. It doesn’t come in a bottle or a pill, It comes from discipline. From taking everything life hands you and being your best either because of it or in spite of it. — Ty Murray
Response:
Question:
Adderall is putting me to sleep. This is different from it not working; instead, it’s making me so fatigued I can hardly get through the day. Geez, not very helpful at this rate. Anyone else find the effectiveness wears thin so fast? Kind of making me feel like I took a valium. Not exactly the mental edge of choice.
Response:
Adderall is putting me to sleep. This is different from it not working; instead, it’s making me so fatigued I can hardly get through the day. Geez, not very helpful at this rate. Anyone else find the effectiveness wears thin so fast? Kind of making me feel like I took a valium. Not exactly the mental edge of choice.
What’s your dosage? It might be too low. I’ve found that with medications, in general, it takes alot of experimentation (raising and lowering the dosage) before you find a dosage that works. Wayne
Response:
Adderall is putting me to sleep. This is different from it not working; instead, it’s making me so fatigued I can hardly get through the day. Geez, not very helpful at this rate. Anyone else find the effectiveness wears thin so fast? Kind of making me feel like I took a valium. Not exactly the mental edge of choice.
Sometimes when I take stimulants, they make me tired becuase I suddenly can ‘focus’ on how tired I am (not quite focus, but I stop bouncing around (mentally speaking, mind you) and when I stop that bouncing, I suddenly realize I was bouncing around to keep awake. Also, as someone suggested, it could be that the dose is too low (though that’s no reason it should make you tired specificially.) — Everything I needed to know in life, I learned in kindergarten. For example: Love is, like, really cool, man, like, the coolest thing in the universe, where people can open up and show their true selves, and they’re, like,not afraid someone’s gonna laugh becuase they, like, love themselves already.
Response:
Now, first, understand that I’ve only recently been taking Adderall, but I have also found that it makes me sleepy. I started at 10 mg. When this didn’t resolve the ADHD symptoms like Desoxyn did (see my own thread for more on this), I went up to 15mg. Here, not only did my ADHD symptoms not get resolves, but I felt dazed, even less focused, and extremely tired — especially initially and towards the end of the Adderall’s duration. In fact, I was better off not taking it at all. My doc and I think it may have been adjusted TOO HIGH! Stimulant don ‘t affect those with ADHD like they do other people. Sure, at high enough doses we’ll get a buzz too. But it may be that at too high (and not yet *way* too high) a dose, it may sap your energy even as it let you concentrate. I’ll let you know how going to 5 mg. works out. Chris
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Adderall is putting me to sleep. This is different from it not working; instead, it’s making me so fatigued I can hardly get through the day. Geez, not very helpful at this rate. Anyone else find the effectiveness wears thin so fast? Kind of making me feel like I took a valium. Not exactly the mental edge of choice.
Response:
Are you getting plenty of sleep?
Response:
Answers: Yes, getting enough sleep. I don’t want to increase dosage, or it makes me feel to heart-beat-racy. The sleepiness and ennui that the Adderall is inducing feels like a form of hypnosis: as though mind is zoning out, with lessened sharpened perception. Like I could stare a tiger down without flinching, but have not the wherewithall to run for my life. *L* Another analogy: if I’m trying to write a paragraph, I can sit there thinking (like a computer program) of 1,001 ways or directions to write the paragraph, but 20 minutes pass and I’ve not written a thing. Isn’t THIS what the meds are supposed to counteract, as opposed to induce? *L* Befuddled by the paradoxical effect. (and don’t go saying I don’t have ADD because this is happening!) My point is that the meds used to work better than this. And yes, I switch back and forth between R and A. My point is that I’m feeling like the ‘mellowist’ person in my office; and that’s not a great thing!
Response:
Blewzz, Marty here. May i suggest looking into clinical depression. Your sleepiness, lack of focus and feeling "stuck" might warrant discussing this with your Dr. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Answers: Yes, getting enough sleep. I don’t want to increase dosage, or it makes me feel to heart-beat-racy. The sleepiness and ennui that the Adderall is inducing feels like a form of hypnosis: as though mind is zoning out, with lessened sharpened perception. Like I could stare a tiger down without flinching, but have not the wherewithall to run for my life. *L* Another analogy: if I’m trying to write a paragraph, I can sit there thinking (like a computer program) of 1,001 ways or directions to write the paragraph, but 20 minutes pass and I’ve not written a thing. Isn’t THIS what the meds are supposed to counteract, as opposed to induce? *L* Befuddled by the paradoxical effect. (and don’t go saying I don’t have ADD because this is happening!) My point is that the meds used to work better than this. And yes, I switch back and forth between R and A. My point is that I’m feeling like the ‘mellowist’ person in my office; and that’s not a great thing!
Response:
Can’t homework overlap with dinner preparation, cooking time and cleanup? not if i want it done properly Can’t your partner’s daughter do some/all homework between the time school is dismissed and when you get home at 6? not if i want it done properly
Isn’t this your partner’s *daughter’s* homework? Shouldn’t she be expected to do her homework on her own? I don’t think it’s your responsibility to do her homework for her, or even to make sure it’s done properly. She could do it on her own between school and when you get home, and then you can check it over with her and help her see where she’s made errors, if there are any. If you expect her to be able to do it right, she just might surprise you. -JL
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – (snip) Regarding your other post – it really is worth it to structure your life so you get enough sleep. I know it’s really, really hard. But you are so much more effective that it makes up for the lost time, IME. Plus you feel a million times better. ummm but we have to get up for work at 5 then we don’t get home till around 6 then we have dinner and homework…. when do you suggest we get those things done. hell we dont’ do laundry or housework during the week… All I am saying is that if it were me, I’d change that schedule. It doesn’t sound good for you, your relationship, or your kids. Obviously it is your life, and it’s up to you. Just something to think about. we can’t change the schedule it’s the way it is. Bri leaves at 6:45 I leave about an hour later. I work a minimum of 8.5 hours and have about a 40 minute commute home. He’s not home before 5:30 if he gets girl child and 6 without her.
If Bri leaves for work at 6:45, and you don’t have to leave for work until 7:45, why do you need to get up at 5? What do you do between 5 and 7:45? dinner is usually something frozen or carry out and is prelanned. changing the scheule will mean moving, switching jobs or other things that are not options. you make it sound like this is our choice…. trust me it’s not but then it’s only while school is in session…
How will your schedule change in the summer–other than your not having to help with/supervise homework? What will happen when school starts up again in the fall? although bri will drive summer school it’s not as time intensive (and the money’s not nearly as much either) not that there’s a lot to have. you make it sound like our schedule is our choice. it’s not trust me. it’s our realtiy however.
Nancy Unique, like everyone else
Response:
Are you working overtime these days? IIRC, you used have to get into work early, but you then got home quite a bit earlier than 6. yes yesterday was one of those 11 hr days… at least rush hour was almost over when i left.
Is the OT mandatory? Or are you working OT because you need the income? Does it really take you 5 1/2 hours to do homework and fix, cook, eat and cleanup after dinner? (If so…yikes!) i don’t think so
I hate to suggest this to someone who sounds like she may already have too much on her plate but–if you don’t know exactly how your time is spent between arriving home and going to bed, perhaps you can try to keep a time-sheet or time-journal of sorts for a few days to see if a pattern emerges showing you how you spend those precious 5 1/2 hours. Or at least try to be more aware of how you actually spend those 5 1/2 hours in the evenings. Want me to come over and shadow you for a few evenings so that we can figure out where those 5 1/2 hours really go? I just am finding it hard to understand how meals and your partner’s daughter’s homework can take up so much of your time every evening. but this is still all so new… and i so suck at being a parent but it’s really on me a lot.
You sound like you’re rather stressed about having a child in the house again. Just remember, you don’t have to be a super-mom, just "good enough." Do you devote all 5 1/2 hours just to homework and meals, or are there other less necessary activities that you’re doing in those 5 1/2 hours that you can eliminate from your schedule? usenet?
I hate to tell you to quit posting again at a time when you may need support, but if posting is cutting into your sleep-time, I’d urge you to save usenet for weekends. Do all three of you do all of those things together? Or are you doing all of it alone? i cook
In another post, you said dinner was usually something frozen or carry-out. Surely, once you start cooking the frozen stuff or unpacking the carry-out, you don’t have to spend much time with meal prep. So where does the time go?! bri cleans
I’m confused. In another post, you said that you save housework until weekends. Or are you talking about cleaning up after meals? girl child does homework
And when does she do this? How long does it take her? IIRC, she’s still fairly young. She can’t have umpteen hours of homework every night, can she? Surely she’s not up and doing homework until nearly 11:30! … we have the dogs
OK. You have to walk the dogs, groom them, pay them some attention, so how much time does that take? and other stuff too.
Yeah, I suspected there might be "other stuff." You really need to figure out what "other stuff" is taking up your time and eliminate or reduce it so you can get some sleep. Are you talking about your partner’s daughter’s homework, or do you and your partner also have homework to do? right now just hers. Can’t homework overlap with dinner preparation, cooking time and cleanup? not if i want it done properly
What’s going on with homework? How much help does she need–and why? If she needs help, why can’t her father help her? Does she need your constant attention and supervision while she’s doing homework? And, if so, why? Can’t your partner’s daughter do some/all homework between the time school is dismissed and when you get home at 6? not if i want it done properly
Where does she go for child care between school dismissal and getting home? When you do go to bed at 11:30, do you actually go to sleep or do you engage in more stimulating activities? sleep
Well, that’s a bummer 
, but at least you’re not cutting further into your sleep. A study which came out last year found that chronic sleep deficits can produce symptoms very much like ADHD including reduced ability to pay attention and impairment of working memory. http://www.nih.gov/news/pr/mar2003/ninr-12.htm I don’t doubt it. So, perhaps getting enough sleep every–or at least most–nights will help you function at least a little better. does a nap on the couch from 8-11 count… I do that a lot on thursdays….
I suspect a three hour nap once a week won’t do much to refill your depleted sleep bank. Nancy Unique, like everyone else
Response:
you make it sound like our schedule is our choice. it’s not trust me. it’s our realtiy however.
I’m not trying to sound like I am yelling at you. I’m sure that you have very good reasons for your choices. You have a lot of things going on that are important to you and you want to do a good job. But. Unless you are in prison or in the army, your schedule *is* your choice. No one controls your time but you. This can be freeing when you realize it. I have discovered the difference myself. I try not to say "I have to . . .", because the fact is I don’t have to. I’m choosing to. Something may be due, or I may have agreed to do something, and those are good reasons to meet a schedule. But saying "I have to" gives away my control of my life and my choices to some nameless entity out there. Again, I am not telling you what you should or shouldn’t do. I’m just telling you it is your choice.
Response:
If Bri leaves for work at 6:45, and you don’t have to leave for work until 7:45, why do you need to get up at 5? What do you do between 5 and 7:45?
ooops bri leaves at 5:45 I leave at 6:45 How will your schedule change in the summer–other than your not having to help with/supervise homework?
bri will leave a bit later and get home a bit earlier…. other than that it won’t change. What will happen when school starts up again in the fall?
we go back to what we have now. unless we move. which is not happening.
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – (snip) Regarding your other post – it really is worth it to structure your life so you get enough sleep. I know it’s really, really hard. But you are so much more effective that it makes up for the lost time, IME. Plus you feel a million times better. ummm but we have to get up for work at 5 then we don’t get home till around 6 then we have dinner and homework…. when do you suggest we get those things done. hell we dont’ do laundry or housework during the week… All I am saying is that if it were me, I’d change that schedule. It doesn’t sound good for you, your relationship, or your kids. Obviously it is your life, and it’s up to you. Just something to think about.
what would you suggest we change?
Response:
Can’t homework overlap with dinner preparation, cooking time and cleanup? not if i want it done properly Can’t your partner’s daughter do some/all homework between the time school is dismissed and when you get home at 6? not if i want it done properly Isn’t this your partner’s *daughter’s* homework?
yes it is Shouldn’t she be expected to do her homework on her own? I don’t think it’s your responsibility to do her homework for her, or even to make sure it’s done properly.
she is 11 with learning disabilities and has NEVER been taught properly how to cope with them. she is a smart kid with all Ds on her report card. She can do the work but she won’t do it properly if not supervised. I don’t expect her to do it on her own. as for doing it for her I don’t do it for her. Why is it not our responsibility as her parents to make make sure she does it properly so as to reinforce her lessons in school. should we allow her to fail? DO YOU HAVE CHILDREN??? She could do it on her own between school and when you get home, and then you can check it over with her and help her see where she’s made errors, if there are any. If you expect her to be able to do it right, she just might surprise you.
well even if she does that then we just REDO it. she did math last night on her own while i worked on something else. out of 15 problems she rushed so fast that 10 were wrong. I do expect her to do it. but I’m the first person who expects her to live up to her potential. I’m the first person with enough education to make her do what she can do.
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – (snip) Regarding your other post – it really is worth it to structure your life so you get enough sleep. I know it’s really, really hard. But you are so much more effective that it makes up for the lost time, IME. Plus you feel a million times better. ummm but we have to get up for work at 5 then we don’t get home till around 6 then we have dinner and homework…. when do you suggest we get those things done. hell we dont’ do laundry or housework during the week… All I am saying is that if it were me, I’d change that schedule. It doesn’t sound good for you, your relationship, or your kids. Obviously it is your life, and it’s up to you. Just something to think about.
Emma anne, we can’t change the schedule it’s the way it is. Bri leaves at 6:45 I leave about an hour later. I work a minimum of 8.5 hours and have about a 40 minute commute home. He’s not home before 5:30 if he gets girl child and 6 without her. dinner is usually something frozen or carry out and is prelanned. changing the scheule will mean moving, switching jobs or other things that are not options. you make it sound like this is our choice…. trust me it’s not but then it’s only while school is in session… although bri will drive summer school it’s not as time intensive (and the money’s not nearly as much either) not that there’s a lot to have. you make it sound like our schedule is our choice. it’s not trust me. it’s our realtiy however.
Response:
Are you working overtime these days? IIRC, you used have to get into work early, but you then got home quite a bit earlier than 6.
yes yesterday was one of those 11 hr days… at least rush hour was almost over when i left. Does it really take you 5 1/2 hours to do homework and fix, cook, eat and cleanup after dinner? (If so…yikes!)
i don’t think so but this is still all so new… and i so suck at being a parent but it’s really on me a lot. Do you devote all 5 1/2 hours just to homework and meals, or are there other less necessary activities that you’re doing in those 5 1/2 hours that you can eliminate from your schedule?
usenet? Do all three of you do all of those things together? Or are you doing all of it alone?
i cook, bri cleans girl child does homework… we have the dogs and other stuff too. Are you talking about your partner’s daughter’s homework, or do you and your partner also have homework to do?
right now just hers. Can’t homework overlap with dinner preparation, cooking time and cleanup?
not if i want it done properly Can’t your partner’s daughter do some/all homework between the time school is dismissed and when you get home at 6?
not if i want it done properly When you do go to bed at 11:30, do you actually go to sleep or do you engage in more stimulating activities?
sleep A study which came out last year found that chronic sleep deficits can produce symptoms very much like ADHD including reduced ability to pay attention and impairment of working memory. http://www.nih.gov/news/pr/mar2003/ninr-12.htm
I don’t doubt it. So, perhaps getting enough sleep every–or at least most–nights will help you function at least a little better.
does a nap on the couch from 8-11 count… I do that a lot on thursdays…. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Nancy Unique, like everyone else
Response:
Is the OT mandatory? Or are you working OT because you need the income?
it’s not even OT it’s CREDIT. which right now I do need. it means for every 15 mintues I work I get 15 minutes of time off later when I need it. And yesterday was necessary. Today I did none and I am home by 5 but they are not home yet. I hate to suggest this to someone who sounds like she may already have too much on her plate but–if you don’t know exactly how your time is spent between arriving home and going to bed, perhaps you can try to keep a time-sheet or time-journal of sorts for a few days to see if a pattern emerges showing you how you spend those precious 5 1/2 hours.
well to be honest girl child is up till about 9:30 or 10 which i know is too late for her but that’s getting her homework done. then i start getting the dogs ready for their walk and i get the coffee pot ready for morning and head up to bed. some nights i make it before 11. some nites not. i’m on the computer…. i work with girl child, talk to bri… all sorts of stuff… i have always needed a ton of down time which is why the boys went to dad 12 years ago. Or at least try to be more aware of how you actually spend those 5 1/2 hours in the evenings.
I am sure if I rushed our kishkes we would get more done.. .we’d also be nasty and grumpier…. Want me to come over and shadow you for a few evenings so that we can figure out where those 5 1/2 hours really go?
actually yeah… bring the boys and i’ll feed you all….. I just am finding it hard to understand how meals and your partner’s daughter’s homework can take up so much of your time every evening.
she has an IEP…. she has a father who dropped out of his 3rd year of 9th grade a grandfather who can’t read and a grandmother who barely got the GED done. I don’t know what is on the IEP or what her LDs are. I know she’s smart but it’s like pulling teeth considering this has never been done to her before. she fights tooth and nail every step of the way….. we don’t get started on dinner till after 6. and i am trying to get the TV turned off a bit more in the house… with bri it’s like breathing…. no tv and we will die (he thinks) remember this is only been about 6 weeks….. . You sound like you’re rather stressed about having a child in the house again.
you mean two children… bri is a guy after all….. but seriously… she’s a good kid but school is the least of his family’s priorities…. NO ONE has EVER gotten a High School Diploma in this family. EVER. Just remember, you don’t have to be a super-mom, just "good enough."
good enough means i have to make sure she bathes… she brushes her teeth that she washes (which is not a priority for a family that didn’t have indoor plumbing until the early 80s)…. running water meant bri and his brother RAN and GOT the water…. going to the bathroom at night really did involve shoes and a flashlight and mom did finance a couple of her tattoos. they grew up btw Nancy in Oella (Catonsville) www.oella.org if you are interested. Do you devote all 5 1/2 hours just to homework and meals, or are there other less necessary activities that you’re doing in those 5 1/2 hours that you can eliminate from your schedule?
I guess i could make a sound proof room and put her and i in it and do her homework…. If i sit her at the dining room table and i’m at the computer in the living room (and you know that’s one big room)….. I have to KEEP her on task even if bri leaves the room and turns the tv off. every step of the way. what makes it hard is that i’m the evil stepmom…. she’s never had anyone work so hard with her about school….. but right now she has all Ds in her classes. she does however see light.. her math grade has improved… she’d getting 90s not 50s on her spelling tests… she can do the work… just no one made her. I hate to tell you to quit posting again at a time when you may need support, but if posting is cutting into your sleep-time, I’d urge you to save usenet for weekends.
I tend to do it while she’s doing her school work.. I"m not hovering over her. I jsut got a job as a moderator on a message board… dont’ ask…. i’m always on the dang thing…. i cook In another post, you said dinner was usually something frozen or carry-out. Surely, once you start cooking the frozen stuff or unpacking the carry-out, you don’t have to spend much time with meal prep.
ok I reheat… i defrost, i mix it in the pan… whatever… this is new… basically it’s been JUST me for 12 years…. So where does the time go?!
we all seem to need to just chill when we get home…. bri cleans I’m confused. In another post, you said that you save housework until weekends. Or are you talking about cleaning up after meals?
the person who prepares dinner does not clean up… he cleans up after dinner. girl child does homework And when does she do this? How long does it take her? IIRC, she’s still fairly young. She can’t have umpteen hours of homework every night, can she?
she can if i have to make her do it over cause she rushes. she can if I have to go step by step and pull teeth out of her cause no one has ever made this child use her brain and think. she just gives pat answers or expects me to tell her the answer. I had to teach her how to use a dictonary. a big one a collegiate one. Surely she’s not up and doing homework until nearly 11:30!
she would be if it meant she could stay up!! no i want her in bed by 9:30 but it’s not happening. … we have the dogs OK. You have to walk the dogs, groom them, pay them some attention, so how much time does that take?
with bagel still not housebroken and hannah eating remotes……. and also hannah thinks she’s girl child’s dog. she shadows her…. not much…. What’s going on with homework?
do my answers above make this clearer or do you want more info? How much help does she need–and why?
she needs 100% supervision and review because she’s sloppy and she rushes and she doesn’t want to do it. she can’t see the reason for school… after all no one ever finishes it in her family. If she needs help, why can’t her father help her?
he doesn’t get it. he gets frustrated. he does help with the math. but his reading is as slow as hers. i think they have the same untreated learning disability. Does she need your constant attention and supervision while she’s doing homework? And, if so, why?
yes or she won’t do it. Where does she go for child care between school dismissal and getting home?
she goes to her grandfather and he can’t help her with homework he can’t read. he dropped out in the 5th grade. Well, that’s a bummer , but at least you’re not cutting further into your sleep.
yeah we lost our sex life when bri moved in. he swears it’s not lst but only misplaced but i’m wondering….. Nancy, I know it sounds like i’m making excuses but I really don’t see any other way to get her homework done… no one else will do it and if i let it go she will be on the street corner in a few years and bri will be a grandfather….
Response:
After recently being diagnosed with ADD at age 33, my doctor and I are working on finding the right meds/dose that will work for me. We tried Ritalin and I got absolutely no effect at all from it. Last week we started with Adderall – experimenting between 10 and 30mg for a dose to see what works best. My question is this – should the effects of Adderall be something that I actually *feel* or is it more of an onset of realizing that I am able to read or concentrate without being completely distracted like I usually am? I just want to find out if either the drug is working, or if I’m just trying to convince myself that it’s working and just concentrating harder because I think I should be able to, if that makes any sense. Some say that their meds are like a light switch going on as soon as they take it. Does that mean that there is an actual feeling, that is obvious like you’d get with alcohol, or should it just be barely noticeable tranformation into "normal?" Thanks for any info.
Response:
Some say that their meds are like a light switch going on as soon as they take it. Does that mean that there is an actual feeling, that is obvious like you’d get with alcohol, or should it just be barely noticeable tranformation into "normal?"
I can’t really comment on Adderall but I think the effect may be like Ritalin when it works. With Ritalin my head felt *quieter* but the main difference was that people around me told me I was *finishing* things I started. Do you have anyone, a partner or family, you could ask if they’ve noticed a difference? They might see changes you wouldn’t notice yourself. Good luck with Adderall! Vashti
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – After recently being diagnosed with ADD at age 33, my doctor and I are working on finding the right meds/dose that will work for me. We tried Ritalin and I got absolutely no effect at all from it. Last week we started with Adderall – experimenting between 10 and 30mg for a dose to see what works best. My question is this – should the effects of Adderall be something that I actually *feel* or is it more of an onset of realizing that I am able to read or concentrate without being completely distracted like I usually am? I just want to find out if either the drug is working, or if I’m just trying to convince myself that it’s working and just concentrating harder because I think I should be able to, if that makes any sense. Some say that their meds are like a light switch going on as soon as they take it. Does that mean that there is an actual feeling, that is obvious like you’d get with alcohol, or should it just be barely noticeable tranformation into "normal?"
The effects for me are very subtle. I didn’t realize the meds were doing anything for me until I picked up a textbook for a course that I had taken and passed many years before and started reading it. About halfway down the third page I realized that I was into territory I had never seen before. The only overt sensation I get unless my dosage is too high is about 5-10 seconds of very mild vertigo about half an hour or so after taking my first dose of stimulant in the morning. Thanks for any info.
– –John Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net (was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
Response:
My question is this – should the effects of Adderall be something that I actually *feel* or is it more of an onset of realizing that I am able to read or concentrate without being completely distracted like I usually am?
The latter, mostly. I can feel a difference when I am driving (things seem to happen slower) but generally I just notice that life is going better.
Response:
The effect of Adderall is much less visceral than that of Ritalin. I definitely feel Ritalin kicking in and leaving my system. With Adderall it is much more gradual. This is to be expected given that it is a combination of drugs. CK
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – After recently being diagnosed with ADD at age 33, my doctor and I are working on finding the right meds/dose that will work for me. We tried Ritalin and I got absolutely no effect at all from it. Last week we started with Adderall – experimenting between 10 and 30mg for a dose to see what works best. My question is this – should the effects of Adderall be something that I actually *feel* or is it more of an onset of realizing that I am able to read or concentrate without being completely distracted like I usually am? I just want to find out if either the drug is working, or if I’m just trying to convince myself that it’s working and just concentrating harder because I think I should be able to, if that makes any sense. Some say that their meds are like a light switch going on as soon as they take it. Does that mean that there is an actual feeling, that is obvious like you’d get with alcohol, or should it just be barely noticeable tranformation into "normal?" Thanks for any info.
Response:
Well, even at a 30mg dose, I’m really not finding that it’s having much of an effect. As soon as I try to concentrate/read, I still find that I’m constantly being distracted by any little sound, or random thoughts that pop up. I’ll read the same sentence over and over and still not even get the words into my head. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The effects for me are very subtle. I didn’t realize the meds were doing anything for me until I picked up a textbook for a course that I had taken and passed many years before and started reading it. About halfway down the third page I realized that I was into territory I had never seen before. The only overt sensation I get unless my dosage is too high is about 5-10 seconds of very mild vertigo about half an hour or so after taking my first dose of stimulant in the morning. Thanks for any info. — –John Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net (was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
Response:
When I was in a high-stress, high distraction job (public defender) I was using 60 mg a day. 40 mg at 7 a.m. and 20 mg at noon. The other thing is that ADDers are often not all that aware of the benefits of meds. Those around them are. They see the behavioral differences even if the person taking the medication doesn’t notice them. I guess that, too, is a matter of attention. — CK
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Well, even at a 30mg dose, I’m really not finding that it’s having much of an effect. As soon as I try to concentrate/read, I still find that I’m constantly being distracted by any little sound, or random thoughts that pop up. I’ll read the same sentence over and over and still not even get the words into my head. The effects for me are very subtle. I didn’t realize the meds were doing anything for me until I picked up a textbook for a course that I had taken and passed many years before and started reading it. About halfway down the third page I realized that I was into territory I had never seen before. The only overt sensation I get unless my dosage is too high is about 5-10 seconds of very mild vertigo about half an hour or so after taking my first dose of stimulant in the morning. Thanks for any info. — –John Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net (was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
Response:
When I was in a high-stress, high distraction job (public defender) I was using 60 mg a day. 40 mg at 7 a.m. and 20 mg at noon. The other thing is that ADDers are often not all that aware of the benefits of meds. Those around them are. They see the behavioral differences even if the person taking the medication doesn’t notice them. I guess that, too, is a matter of attention.
Actually, FWIR, people often go off meds because they don’t think they need them after all. High-risk populations include people with clinical depression and schizophrenia (by this I don’t mean people who have both). -JL
Response:
My question is this – should the effects of Adderall be something that I actually *feel* or is it more of an onset of realizing that I am able to read or concentrate without being completely distracted like I usually am? The latter, mostly. I can feel a difference when I am driving (things seem to happen slower) but generally I just notice that life is going better.
making me think of trying adderall
Response:
My question is this – should the effects of Adderall be something that I actually *feel* or is it more of an onset of realizing that I am able to read or concentrate without being completely distracted like I usually am? The latter, mostly. I can feel a difference when I am driving (things seem to happen slower) but generally I just notice that life is going better.
but you know (as an aside) what i hate is NOT really KNOWING if it’s working…. oh well time to call P-doc and see if she will do just stims. I don’t feel depressed at all anymore…. just TIRED always TIRED but then going to bed at 11:30 and getting up at 5 will dio that.
Response:
but you know (as an aside) what i hate is NOT really KNOWING if it’s working….
Or which med is doing what! oh well time to call P-doc and see if she will do just stims. I don’t feel depressed at all anymore…. just TIRED always TIRED but then going to bed at 11:30 and getting up at 5 will dio that.
That is a *very* long day! I wouldn’t be able to keep that up nowadays although I could in my teens and early twenties. I don’t want to try Ritalin again until I can take it by itself*without* an antidepressant, right now I’m still using 50mg of Zoloft for anxiety(which I doubt it’s doing all that much for) so I can see what it actually does by itself. I found antidepressants(SSRIs) tend to make me more sluggish, inactive and *tired* without help from my sleeping habits. Right now I’m also using Parlodel(Bromocriptine) for a prolactinoma but hopefully I’ll be able to lower the dose or stop using it since my prolactin levels are *way* down so that’d be one less med in the mix. Vashti
Response:
My question is this – should the effects of Adderall be something that I actually *feel* or is it more of an onset of realizing that I am able to read or concentrate without being completely distracted like I usually am? The latter, mostly. I can feel a difference when I am driving (things seem to happen slower) but generally I just notice that life is going better. making me think of trying adderall
Oops, sorry. I use Ritalin, actually (I was not clear). Regarding your other post – it really is worth it to structure your life so you get enough sleep. I know it’s really, really hard. But you are so much more effective that it makes up for the lost time, IME. Plus you feel a million times better.
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My question is this – should the effects of Adderall be something that I actually *feel* or is it more of an onset of realizing that I am able to read or concentrate without being completely distracted like I usually am? The latter, mostly. I can feel a difference when I am driving (things seem to happen slower) but generally I just notice that life is going better. making me think of trying adderall Oops, sorry. I use Ritalin, actually (I was not clear). Regarding your other post – it really is worth it to structure your life so you get enough sleep. I know it’s really, really hard. But you are so much more effective that it makes up for the lost time, IME. Plus you feel a million times better.
ummm but we have to get up for work at 5 then we don’t get home till around 6 then we have dinner and homework…. when do you suggest we get those things done. hell we dont’ do laundry or housework during the week…
Response:
(snip) Regarding your other post – it really is worth it to structure your life so you get enough sleep. I know it’s really, really hard. But you are so much more effective that it makes up for the lost time, IME. Plus you feel a million times better. ummm but we have to get up for work at 5 then we don’t get home till around 6 then we have dinner and homework…. when do you suggest we get those things done. hell we dont’ do laundry or housework during the week…
All I am saying is that if it were me, I’d change that schedule. It doesn’t sound good for you, your relationship, or your kids. Obviously it is your life, and it’s up to you. Just something to think about.
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My question is this – should the effects of Adderall be something that I actually *feel* or is it more of an onset of realizing that I am able to read or concentrate without being completely distracted like I usually am? The latter, mostly. I can feel a difference when I am driving (things seem to happen slower) but generally I just notice that life is going better. making me think of trying adderall Oops, sorry. I use Ritalin, actually (I was not clear). Regarding your other post – it really is worth it to structure your life so you get enough sleep. I know it’s really, really hard. But you are so much more effective that it makes up for the lost time, IME. Plus you feel a million times better. ummm but we have to get up for work at 5 then we don’t get home till around 6 then we have dinner and homework…. when do you suggest we get those things done. hell we dont’ do laundry or housework during the week…
Are you working overtime these days? IIRC, you used have to get into work early, but you then got home quite a bit earlier than 6. Does it really take you 5 1/2 hours to do homework and fix, cook, eat and cleanup after dinner? (If so…yikes!) Do you devote all 5 1/2 hours just to homework and meals, or are there other less necessary activities that you’re doing in those 5 1/2 hours that you can eliminate from your schedule? Do all three of you do all of those things together? Or are you doing all of it alone? Are you talking about your partner’s daughter’s homework, or do you and your partner also have homework to do? Can’t homework overlap with dinner preparation, cooking time and cleanup? Can’t your partner’s daughter do some/all homework between the time school is dismissed and when you get home at 6? When you do go to bed at 11:30, do you actually go to sleep or do you engage in more stimulating activities? A study which came out last year found that chronic sleep deficits can produce symptoms very much like ADHD including reduced ability to pay attention and impairment of working memory. http://www.nih.gov/news/pr/mar2003/ninr-12.htm So, perhaps getting enough sleep every–or at least most–nights will help you function at least a little better. Nancy Unique, like everyone else
Response:
Question:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – bromocriptine For ADHD?! What *exactly* should it be doing for my ADHD symptoms and at which dose? 2 months at 2.5mg per day has reduced my prolactin levels from 1500 to 78…. amongst other things my nose feels continuously blocked, I easily get dizzy and I sometimes feel nauseous. Personally I would *really* hate taking a higher dose of the stuff especially given the horrid time I had getting used to my current dose. I don’t think I’d take it for ADHD unless it really worked miracles. Yuck! ;/ Vashti Have you tried it intranasally. It really reduces the nausea. There are 2 cites below for that.
Not sure I’d like that either at this dose, my nasal passages are dehydrated enough right now from this stuff, who knows what that dose would be like when taken nasally. 0.8mg seems like a pretty low dose to me but then maybe that’s all it normally takes just to halt lactation. My endocrinologist said I may need to keep taking this for the rest of my life although there were alternative meds with *different* side effects I might use instead of Bromocriptine. I’ll ask him about it next visit, he’s just ordered *25* different blood values to be tested and for some reason one(or more) of the samples was needed a month in advance so I won’t be seeing him until those results are back in about a month. Here is one example of what it does and how it relates to frontal lobe function.
Um, am I just being unusually dense or am I right in thinking memory function isn’t the full picture with ADHD? Surely by now I would have noticed some improvement or at least my partner would have? I can safely say I’m a "low capacity subject" but all I’m getting from the Bromocriptine are side effects and reduced prolactin levels as far as I can tell…oh, and maybe a headache unless that’s just the prolactinoma getting in the way of something else. Should my memory be getting better, should I be procrastinating less, should I have a better grip on time, less hyperfocus issues? I guess for someone in my position it would be awfully handy if the med I *have* to take just happened to ease my ADHD symptoms but right now I can’t see that it has. I’m also wondering if the lowering of prolactin levels wouldn’t be a bad thing for those with normal levels, what do you think? Vashti
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – bromocriptine For ADHD?! What *exactly* should it be doing for my ADHD symptoms and at which dose? 2 months at 2.5mg per day has reduced my prolactin levels from 1500 to 78…. amongst other things my nose feels continuously blocked, I easily get dizzy and I sometimes feel nauseous. Personally I would *really* hate taking a higher dose of the stuff especially given the horrid time I had getting used to my current dose. I don’t think I’d take it for ADHD unless it really worked miracles. Yuck! ;/ Vashti
Have you tried it intranasally. It really reduces the nausea. There are 2 cites below for that. Here is one example of what it does and how it relates to frontal lobe function. Neuroreport. 1997 Nov 10;8(16):3581-5. Related Articles, Links Effects of bromocriptine on human subjects depend on working memory capacity. Kimberg DY, D’Esposito M, Farah MJ. Cognitive Neuroscience Section, National Institute of Neurological Disorders and Stroke, NIH, USA. Pharmacological manipulation of brain dopamine concentration affects visuospatial working memory in humans and in animals, the latter effects localized to the prefrontal cortex. However, the effects of dopamine agonists on humans are poorly understood. We hypothesized that bromocriptine would have an effect on cognitive functions associated with the prefrontal cortex via its effects on cortical dopamine receptors and on subcortical receptors in areas that project to the neocortex. We found that the effect of bromocriptine on young normal subjects depended on the subjects’ working memory capacity. High-capacity subjects performed more poorly on the drug, while low-capacity subjects improved. These results demonstrate an empirical link between a dopamine-mediated working memory system and higher cognitive function in humans. PMID: 9427330 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] Gynecol Endocrinol. 1996 Dec;10(6):391-6. Related Articles, Links Nasal spray administration of bromocriptine: pharmacology and effect on serum prolactin level in puerperal women. Cicinelli E, Cignarelli M, Petruzzi D, Matteo G, Ruccia C, Schonauer LM. Department of Obstetrics and Gynecology, University of Bari, Italy. This study was aimed at investigating the absorption of nasally administered bromocriptine and its effect on serum prolactin level. Fifteen physiologically hyperprolactinemia women who had asked to discontinue breast feeding received a single nasal spray administration of 0.8 mg bromocriptine. Serum prolactin levels were measured by radioimmunoassay at 30 and 15 min before drug administration, at the time of administration and at 15, 30, 60, 120, 240, 480 and 720 min after administration; bromocriptine was radioimmunoassayed in only five of the patients from time 0 to 720 min after administration. Serum bromocriptine levels increased rapidly after administration, reached a maximum at 120 min and thereafter declined slowly over the subsequent 10 h. As the bromocriptine level increased there was a decline in the serum prolactin level. The first significant decline in serum prolactin level compared with the baseline level occurred at 30 min after administration and the level continued to decrease significantly until time 120 min. Four hours after administration the mean serum prolactin level was within the normal assay range. The maximum decline in serum prolactin level was reached at 720 min after administration. Correlation analysis between serum bromocriptine and prolactin concentrations yielded a significant negative value between times 0 and 120 min after administration. There was no significant change in mean orthostatic systolic or diastolic blood pressure or in mean heart rate. Only one patient complained of headache and dizziness; another experienced mild transient nausea, and none had vomiting. Ten patients (66.67%) reported light endonasal burning and an unpleasant taste which subsided after a few minutes; no patient showed nasal irritation at nasal examination. In conclusion, nasal administration of 0.8 mg bromocriptine was effective in reducing the serum prolactin level for more than 12 h after administration without inducing significant side-effects. PMID: 9032565 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] J Endocrinol Invest. 1996 Jul-Aug;19(7):427-32. Related Articles, Links Nasal spray vs oral administration of bromocriptine: pharmacology and effect on serum prolactin in puerperal women. Cicinelli E, Cignarelli M, Petruzzi D, Matteo MG, Ruccia C, Schonauer LM. Department of Obstetrics and Gynecology, University of Bari, Italy. The oral administration of bromocriptine induces a variety of side-effects in about 50-70% of patients, the most common being nausea and vomiting, probably related to the local gastrointestinal effect of the drug. Nasal administration makes it possible to avoid intestinal and liver metabolism. This study compared the serum concentrations of bromocriptine and prolactin (PRL) in twenty puerperal women who had asked to discontinue breast feeding and were randomized to receive a single oral (2.5 mg) or nasal spray dose (0.8 mg) of bromocriptine. Serum bromocriptine and PRL concentrations were measured at various times before and after drug administration. At 15 min, the circulating concentrations of bromocriptine were about eight times higher after nasal than after oral administration; peak serum concentration (CMax) was reached respectively 45 min and 60 min after administration, and was about three times higher after nasal administration (314 +/- 102 pg/ml vs 112.30 +/- 34.47 pg/ml). The reduction in serum PRL concentrations was also more rapid in the nasally-treated group reaching the normal assay range of < 20 micrograms/l within two as against five hours post-administration. Four orally-treated patients complained of nausea; in the nasally-treated group, six patients reported only a mild endonasal burning that disappeared within a few minutes of administration. Our results suggest that the nasal administration of bromocriptine may lead to a reduction in the required overall dose and fewer gastrointestinal side-effects, and may therefore improve therapy compliance. Publication Types: Clinical Trial Randomized Controlled Trial PMID: 8884536 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
Response:
I’m wondering what meds you have had positive results with after finding that Ritalin and Adderall don’t have much effect at all? I was hoping that one of these would have helped, but I’m finding that even with a decent sized dose, they aren’t having much effect at all. So, for those of you who have been unsuccessful with Ritalin and Adderall, what did you end up using that DID work?
the bad news for me is that NO MEDS work. I’ve been med free for about a year now. of course the piles in my house are unreal. and we have dog fur dust bunnies the size of Delaware. And driving i get distracted. I’ve had sporadic responses to all meds but STraterra.
Response:
Sorry to hear that nothing seems to be working for you, Nessa. Have you gone through all the different options and combinations, or are you just too discouraged to keep experimenting until something works properly? I called the doctor and he wants me to up the dosage of the Adderall to 40 or 50mg (assuming there are no bad side effects) and see how that goes. In a week when we meet up, we can go from there.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m wondering what meds you have had positive results with after finding that Ritalin and Adderall don’t have much effect at all? I was hoping that one of these would have helped, but I’m finding that even with a decent sized dose, they aren’t having much effect at all. So, for those of you who have been unsuccessful with Ritalin and Adderall, what did you end up using that DID work? the bad news for me is that NO MEDS work. I’ve been med free for about a year now. of course the piles in my house are unreal. and we have dog fur dust bunnies the size of Delaware. And driving i get distracted. I’ve had sporadic responses to all meds but STraterra.
Response:
: I’m wondering what meds you have had positive results with after finding : that Ritalin and Adderall don’t have much effect at all? : I was hoping that one of these would have helped, but I’m finding that even : with a decent sized dose, they aren’t having much effect at all. : So, for those of you who have been unsuccessful with Ritalin and Adderall, : what did you end up using that DID work? 5 mg Dexedrine tablets. And it’s much *smoother*. None of this red faced, head rush stuff, as with Ritalin. Yuck.
I understand this is how Ritalin worked for *you*, but note that I can’t even feel it in my body. Meds really do work very differently for different people.
Response:
Sorry to hear that nothing seems to be working for you, Nessa. Have you gone through all the different options and combinations, or are you just too discouraged to keep experimenting until something works properly? I called the doctor and he wants me to up the dosage of the Adderall to 40 or 50mg (assuming there are no bad side effects) and see how that goes. In a week when we meet up, we can go from there.
well since i was first on stims in 1969 and then rediagnosised in 1991 i’ve pretty much run the gambit. I’m far from discouraged. i’ve been on a zillion combos and stuff i shouldn’t have been on. the neuropsych i was with has lost his license for irresponsible medical practices and then some……
Response:
I’m wondering what meds you have had positive results with after finding that Ritalin and Adderall don’t have much effect at all? I was hoping that one of these would have helped, but I’m finding that even with a decent sized dose, they aren’t having much effect at all. So, for those of you who have been unsuccessful with Ritalin and Adderall, what did you end up using that DID work?
You could try guanfacine, bromocriptine, pergolide, dostinex, Every one is unique, but some are more unique than others. Experiment.
Response:
bromocriptine
For ADHD?! What *exactly* should it be doing for my ADHD symptoms and at which dose? 2 months at 2.5mg per day has reduced my prolactin levels from 1500 to 78…. amongst other things my nose feels continuously blocked, I easily get dizzy and I sometimes feel nauseous. Personally I would *really* hate taking a higher dose of the stuff especially given the horrid time I had getting used to my current dose. I don’t think I’d take it for ADHD unless it really worked miracles. Yuck! ;/ Vashti
Response:
Well, I spoke to my doctor at the beginning of the week and he upped the dose to 50mg, and it made a big difference. I was able to focus without being distracted constantly, could read without my mind going in 20 different directions, and just seemed to be more "normal" feeling. I didn’t take anything the other day and the difference was very noticeable. It was physically uncomfortable to try to sit and read – my mind was like a radio with the stations changing everytime I tried to concentrate, so it would seem that the increased dose made a big difference. My only real concern is having to be on amphetamines, especially if something happened at work and I was taken to the hospital. Do meds like Stratera and others produce the same effect as Adderall in many people?
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m wondering what meds you have had positive results with after finding that Ritalin and Adderall don’t have much effect at all? I was hoping that one of these would have helped, but I’m finding that even with a decent sized dose, they aren’t having much effect at all. So, for those of you who have been unsuccessful with Ritalin and Adderall, what did you end up using that DID work? You could try guanfacine, bromocriptine, pergolide, dostinex, Every one is unique, but some are more unique than others. Experiment.
Response:
Hi Charles, I thought that a total of 60mg each day was the upper limit for this medication. I may have been mistaken. I’ll call the doctor tomorrow and see if I can up the dosage to more than 30mg and see what happens.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Sorry, but you haven’t approached a high dose on Adderall, yet. (30 mg per your other post.) Wellbutrin, dexedrine (spansule and reg), Stratera, Ritalin SR, among others. Different meds work differently on different people … and we’re all different. General rule on dosing is to increase dose gradually until some side-effect of the medication makes taking it undesirable or there is no increase in benefit. Note again that you should be seeking outside evaluation on benefits, not just those you perceive yourself. — Charles Kenyon Word New User FAQ & Web Directory: http://addbalance.com/word Intermediate User’s Guide to Microsoft Word (supplemented version of Microsoft’s Legal Users’ Guide) http://addbalance.com/usersguide See also the MVP FAQ: http://www.mvps.org/word which is awesome! This message is posted to a newsgroup. Please post replies and questions to the newsgroup so that others can learn from my ignorance and your wisdom. I’m wondering what meds you have had positive results with after finding that Ritalin and Adderall don’t have much effect at all? I was hoping that one of these would have helped, but I’m finding that even with a decent sized dose, they aren’t having much effect at all. So, for those of you who have been unsuccessful with Ritalin and Adderall, what did you end up using that DID work?
Response:
: I’m wondering what meds you have had positive results with after finding : that Ritalin and Adderall don’t have much effect at all? : I was hoping that one of these would have helped, but I’m finding that even : with a decent sized dose, they aren’t having much effect at all. : So, for those of you who have been unsuccessful with Ritalin and Adderall, : what did you end up using that DID work? 5 mg Dexedrine tablets. And it’s much *smoother*. None of this red faced, head rush stuff, as with Ritalin. Yuck. Emma —
Response:
Sorry, but you haven’t approached a high dose on Adderall, yet. (30 mg per your other post.) Wellbutrin, dexedrine (spansule and reg), Stratera, Ritalin SR, among others. Different meds work differently on different people … and we’re all different. General rule on dosing is to increase dose gradually until some side-effect of the medication makes taking it undesirable or there is no increase in benefit. Note again that you should be seeking outside evaluation on benefits, not just those you perceive yourself. — Charles Kenyon Word New User FAQ & Web Directory: http://addbalance.com/word Intermediate User’s Guide to Microsoft Word (supplemented version of Microsoft’s Legal Users’ Guide) http://addbalance.com/usersguide See also the MVP FAQ: http://www.mvps.org/word which is awesome! This message is posted to a newsgroup. Please post replies and questions to the newsgroup so that others can learn from my ignorance and your wisdom.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m wondering what meds you have had positive results with after finding that Ritalin and Adderall don’t have much effect at all? I was hoping that one of these would have helped, but I’m finding that even with a decent sized dose, they aren’t having much effect at all. So, for those of you who have been unsuccessful with Ritalin and Adderall, what did you end up using that DID work?
Response:
I’m wondering what meds you have had positive results with after finding that Ritalin and Adderall don’t have much effect at all? I was hoping that one of these would have helped, but I’m finding that even with a decent sized dose, they aren’t having much effect at all. So, for those of you who have been unsuccessful with Ritalin and Adderall, what did you end up using that DID work?
Response:
Question:
I expect that we will be able to address many of these issues with counseling, any by considering any medication that the Dr. considers appropriate. However, I would like to know how to approach the school. What obligations does a private school have in this case? What should I be asking for? I would not expect that the accommodations would have to be many, but unless her treatment turns out to be a cure-all, I would find it difficult to have her stay there with the constant pressure when it is due to things beyond her control.
As far as obligations, a lot depends on whether or not the school receives any federal funding…if not, there are no purse-strings to attach. Even so, you might look at this list of reasonable accommodations under 504 http://www.add.org/content/school/list.htm It will give you some ideas about what is reasonable to ask. Many private schools do give 504 accommodations (section 504 of the Rehabilitation Act of 1973…this act is what ensures accessability to education and the workplace for those with disabilities–remember how many places had to build ramps for wheelchairs. It can be seen as a precurse to the Americans with Disabilities Act). Another site valuable for advocates is http://www.wrightslaw.com Buny
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have a daughter with ADHD symptoms. From the symptoms, it’s clear to me that she has an attention problem, although she has not yet been diagnosed. We have the appropriate appointments set up, but for now I’d like to know what I can do in terms of her schooling. She is in a private school with a very strong academic orientation. Until last year, she did fine, at least in the classroom. Last year and this year, she has been coming home with many "preparedness alerts" or complaints from the teacher that she forgot her homework, or similar things. She gets her homework done, but often forgets to bring it in. Due to their rather strict environment, she will often get a grade in 90’s, but later lose 20 points for not having it signed and returned by a parent on time. Let me be sure I understand you correctly. Are you saying that student does the work, gets a grade of 90 on it, then has to take the paper home to be signed by the parents and then return it to the teacher, signed, in a given time period or lose 20 points? If so, I am _dying_ to know what they think that that is teaching the student other than that the school administration is whacko. Personally on that basis alone I’d look for another school–that’s just too weird for me.
Sounds to me like a rather typical school lesson designed to teach "responsibility." Nancy Unique, like everyone else
Response:
Not talking about what the school _has_ to do but what it _can_ do… See the book Teenagers with ADD, a Parents Guide by Chris Zenger-Dendy. It has a couple of excellent chapters on accomodations that have worked for others. Keep in mind that each child is different. CK – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have a daughter with ADHD symptoms. From the symptoms, it’s clear to me that she has an attention problem, although she has not yet been diagnosed. We have the appropriate appointments set up, but for now I’d like to know what I can do in terms of her schooling. She is in a private school with a very strong academic orientation. Until last year, she did fine, at least in the classroom. Last year and this year, she has been coming home with many "preparedness alerts" or complaints from the teacher that she forgot her homework, or similar things. She gets her homework done, but often forgets to bring it in. Due to their rather strict environment, she will often get a grade in 90’s, but later lose 20 points for not having it signed and returned by a parent on time. This affects her emotionally a great deal. It happens many times a week. Her grades are slipping, but she’s not getting anything lower than a B. However, the stress level is getting very high. Part of this is due to her inablity to focus on her homework. If I let her do it on her own, she will work from the time she gets home from school until 10pm, because she gets so distracted along the way. I try to sit with her and read her the individual problems in the books to keep her from drifting off. In the classroom, I have been told that sometimes she is unable to focus. Sometimes she is embarrassed by this. But she is not disruptive in any way. It did get to the point that the school had to call me, though. I expect that we will be able to address many of these issues with counseling, any by considering any medication that the Dr. considers appropriate. However, I would like to know how to approach the school. What obligations does a private school have in this case? What should I be asking for? I would not expect that the accommodations would have to be many, but unless her treatment turns out to be a cure-all, I would find it difficult to have her stay there with the constant pressure when it is due to things beyond her control.
Response:
I have a daughter with ADHD symptoms. From the symptoms, it’s clear to me that she has an attention problem, although she has not yet been diagnosed. We have the appropriate appointments set up, but for now I’d like to know what I can do in terms of her schooling. She is in a private school with a very strong academic orientation. Until last year, she did fine, at least in the classroom. Last year and this year, she has been coming home with many "preparedness alerts" or complaints from the teacher that she forgot her homework, or similar things. She gets her homework done, but often forgets to bring it in. Due to their rather strict environment, she will often get a grade in 90’s, but later lose 20 points for not having it signed and returned by a parent on time.
Let me be sure I understand you correctly. Are you saying that student does the work, gets a grade of 90 on it, then has to take the paper home to be signed by the parents and then return it to the teacher, signed, in a given time period or lose 20 points? If so, I am _dying_ to know what they think that that is teaching the student other than that the school administration is whacko. Personally on that basis alone I’d look for another school–that’s just too weird for me. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This affects her emotionally a great deal. It happens many times a week. Her grades are slipping, but she’s not getting anything lower than a B. However, the stress level is getting very high. Part of this is due to her inablity to focus on her homework. If I let her do it on her own, she will work from the time she gets home from school until 10pm, because she gets so distracted along the way. I try to sit with her and read her the individual problems in the books to keep her from drifting off. In the classroom, I have been told that sometimes she is unable to focus. Sometimes she is embarrassed by this. But she is not disruptive in any way. It did get to the point that the school had to call me, though. I expect that we will be able to address many of these issues with counseling, any by considering any medication that the Dr. considers appropriate. However, I would like to know how to approach the school. What obligations does a private school have in this case? What should I be asking for?
A private school, like any other business, has the obligation to satisfy their customers or lose them. Education is a product no different in many regards from a car or a television or a house. If the product is substandard then your major options are to complain at increasingly higher levels until you either exhaust the chain of command or get satisfaction, or to take your business elsewhere. Complaining 101: Always be polite. Start with the guy at the bottom and work your way up the chain of command until you either get satisfaction or are stonewalled. Take lots of notes while you’re doing this–record who you talked to and when and what about and what they did or did not do. Do _not_ bypass the chain of command unless you run into someone who is unwilling to pass you on to the next level. If you get stonewalled take names and write a letter to the CEO, follow up with a phone call, explaining the problem and what you have tried to do about it. If no joy there then take your business to someone who actually listens to their customers. I would not expect that the accommodations would have to be many, but unless her treatment turns out to be a cure-all, I would find it difficult to have her stay there with the constant pressure when it is due to things beyond her control.
– –John Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net (was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
Response:
I’m adding a bit to my earlier comment. Private schools’ whole reason for existence is to provide a better education than the public schools. A common complaint about them is that they skim off the cream and let the public schools handle the hard cases. That being so, your private school _should_ be willing to make every accomodation that a public school would make, and then some, or explain why the particular accomodation is undesirable for the student (there is legitimate disagreement over this sort of thing in the academic community–education is more of an art than a science). If they aren’t willing to "go the extra mile" then they should be asked to justify their fees. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have a daughter with ADHD symptoms. From the symptoms, it’s clear to me that she has an attention problem, although she has not yet been diagnosed. We have the appropriate appointments set up, but for now I’d like to know what I can do in terms of her schooling. She is in a private school with a very strong academic orientation. Until last year, she did fine, at least in the classroom. Last year and this year, she has been coming home with many "preparedness alerts" or complaints from the teacher that she forgot her homework, or similar things. She gets her homework done, but often forgets to bring it in. Due to their rather strict environment, she will often get a grade in 90’s, but later lose 20 points for not having it signed and returned by a parent on time. This affects her emotionally a great deal. It happens many times a week. Her grades are slipping, but she’s not getting anything lower than a B. However, the stress level is getting very high. Part of this is due to her inablity to focus on her homework. If I let her do it on her own, she will work from the time she gets home from school until 10pm, because she gets so distracted along the way. I try to sit with her and read her the individual problems in the books to keep her from drifting off. In the classroom, I have been told that sometimes she is unable to focus. Sometimes she is embarrassed by this. But she is not disruptive in any way. It did get to the point that the school had to call me, though. I expect that we will be able to address many of these issues with counseling, any by considering any medication that the Dr. considers appropriate. However, I would like to know how to approach the school. What obligations does a private school have in this case? What should I be asking for? I would not expect that the accommodations would have to be many, but unless her treatment turns out to be a cure-all, I would find it difficult to have her stay there with the constant pressure when it is due to things beyond her control.
– –John Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net (was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
Response:
I have a daughter with ADHD symptoms. From the symptoms, it’s clear to me that she has an attention problem, although she has not yet been diagnosed. We have the appropriate appointments set up, but for now I’d like to know what I can do in terms of her schooling. She is in a private school with a very strong academic orientation. Until last year, she did fine, at least in the classroom. Last year and this year, she has been coming home with many "preparedness alerts" or complaints from the teacher that she forgot her homework, or similar things. She gets her homework done, but often forgets to bring it in. Due to their rather strict environment, she will often get a grade in 90’s, but later lose 20 points for not having it signed and returned by a parent on time. This affects her emotionally a great deal. It happens many times a week. Her grades are slipping, but she’s not getting anything lower than a B. However, the stress level is getting very high. Part of this is due to her inablity to focus on her homework. If I let her do it on her own, she will work from the time she gets home from school until 10pm, because she gets so distracted along the way. I try to sit with her and read her the individual problems in the books to keep her from drifting off. In the classroom, I have been told that sometimes she is unable to focus. Sometimes she is embarrassed by this. But she is not disruptive in any way. It did get to the point that the school had to call me, though. I expect that we will be able to address many of these issues with counseling, any by considering any medication that the Dr. considers appropriate. However, I would like to know how to approach the school. What obligations does a private school have in this case? What should I be asking for? I would not expect that the accommodations would have to be many, but unless her treatment turns out to be a cure-all, I would find it difficult to have her stay there with the constant pressure when it is due to things beyond her control.
Response:
I have a daughter with ADHD symptoms. From the symptoms, it’s clear to me that she has an attention problem, although she has not yet been diagnosed. We have the appropriate appointments set up, but for now I’d like to know what I can do in terms of her schooling. She is in a private school with a very strong academic orientation. Until last year, she did fine, at least in the classroom. Last year and this year, she has been coming home with many "preparedness alerts" or complaints from the teacher that she forgot her homework, or similar things. She gets her homework done, but often forgets to bring it in.
My son’s pediatrician once told me that forgetting to turn in completed homework is a "red flag" for him to check for the possibility of ADHD. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Due to their rather strict environment, she will often get a grade in 90’s, but later lose 20 points for not having it signed and returned by a parent on time. This affects her emotionally a great deal. It happens many times a week. Her grades are slipping, but she’s not getting anything lower than a B. However, the stress level is getting very high. Part of this is due to her inablity to focus on her homework. If I let her do it on her own, she will work from the time she gets home from school until 10pm, because she gets so distracted along the way. I try to sit with her and read her the individual problems in the books to keep her from drifting off. In the classroom, I have been told that sometimes she is unable to focus. Sometimes she is embarrassed by this. But she is not disruptive in any way. It did get to the point that the school had to call me, though. I expect that we will be able to address many of these issues with counseling, any by considering any medication that the Dr. considers appropriate. However, I would like to know how to approach the school. What obligations does a private school have in this case?
Legally, AFAIK, probably none. The IDEA only requires states to provide a free appropriate *public* education to children who need special education. It doesn’t cover private schools. Section 504 of the Rehabilitation Act of 1973, a federal anti-discrimination law, applies only to private schools that receive any type of federal funds. If your daughter’s school does receive federal funds for any reason, your daughter may be entitled to supports and accommodations under Section 504. However…some private schools do offer programs or provide supports and accommodations for their students who have disabilities, even though they are not required to do so by law. You’ll need to check with your school. What should I be asking for? I would not expect that the accommodations would have to be many, but unless her treatment turns out to be a cure-all, I would find it difficult to have her stay there with the constant pressure when it is due to things beyond her control.
Here are some web sites which offer some suggestions on appropriate classroom supports and accommodations for students with ADHD. Do keep in mind, however, that you want to try to get supports and accommodations that will address your daughter’s individual problems, and not just select from these lists. List of Appropriate school-based accommodations and interventions: http://www.add.org/content/school/list.htm Checklists for Teachers: http://www.ldonline.org/ld_indepth/teaching_techniques/rief_checklist… Good luck to both you and your daughter. Nancy Unique, like everyone else
Response:
Question:
Hello all (first post here)… I’m 29 and just recently found out I have ADHD and nonverbal learning disorders. The difference between my performance and verbal iq’s is 34 points. I never noticed because I liked school, so was able to concentrate in lecture, and, well, lecture (verbal) was the primary means of presentation. I was the kid who sat in the front and monopolized the teacher asking questions. 
If I hadn’t liked school, I would have been the class clown. I have some pretty severe executive dysfunction issues. I don’t go a day without losing my keys, my phone, or something. My desk at work is a disaster area exceeded only by my room. I have pretty much all the typical issues of ADHD, but not hyperactivity. Having nonverbal learning disorders complicates this immensely because I’m often oblivious to other peoples’ reactions. My question (if you managed to get this far!) is this: Should I tell my employer? My performance reviews so far have been all positive, except for executive dysfunction issues. Also: I am posting for other positions in the company right now because my job is being transferred to another site and I am not relocating. How should I present these issues (nonverbal learning disorder and executive dysfunction) so I don’t lose out on a job? Can I ask for accomodations in the work hours, if such work can be performed outside the regular 8-5 or 9-6 schedule? As part of my ADHD symptoms, I just don’t wake up at all until noon. Even if my body is awake, my mind isn’t… slow processing speed, lack of focus, etc. Thanks!
Response:
Hello all (first post here)… I’m 29 and just recently found out I have ADHD and nonverbal learning disorders. The difference between my performance and verbal iq’s is 34 points. I never noticed because I liked school, so was able to concentrate in lecture, and, well, lecture (verbal) was the primary means of presentation. I was the kid who sat in the front and monopolized the teacher asking questions. If I hadn’t liked school, I would have been the class clown.
Some how sounds familiar. I have some pretty severe executive dysfunction issues. I don’t go a day without losing my keys, my phone, or something. My desk at work is a disaster area exceeded only by my room.
Ya but do you have someone else you can blame? Seriously; We all have that problem. There are many ways of dealing with it. I personally have a place where I put my stuff. A hook for my keys and a tray for my "pocket stuff) wallet, keys, extra ammunition ect. Oh and don’t let anyone else near your desk. I have pretty much all the typical issues of ADHD, but not hyperactivity. Having nonverbal learning disorders complicates this immensely because I’m often oblivious to other peoples’ reactions.
If you ever watched yourself on video tape, You’d be surprised just how hyper you are. My question (if you managed to get this far!) is this: Should I tell my employer?
NO! On second thought not just no, but HELL NO! My performance reviews so far have been all positive, except for executive dysfunction issues.
Why give them a reason to change that? Also: I am posting for other positions in the company right now because my job is being transferred to another site and I am not relocating. How should I present these issues (nonverbal learning disorder and executive dysfunction) so I don’t lose out on a job?
Go with your abilities not your problems. Think of an interview as an advertising campaign. You don’t see Budwieser commercials mentioning that Bud makes you fart more than other beers, but they know it does. They just mention the taste and show you some pretty girls or frogs or something. Can I ask for accomodations in the work hours, if such work can be performed outside the regular 8-5 or 9-6 schedule?
That would depend on just how valuable you are to them. Also how would that effect your job? Would coming in at noon mean, other people would have to wait for you to come in, before they could do their job? As part of my ADHD symptoms, I just don’t wake up at all until noon. Even if my body is awake, my mind isn’t… slow processing speed, lack of focus, etc.
sounds like a job for ridiline. Thanks!
Your welcome. — Quote of the month "If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went." Will Rogers
Response:
Previous page