Filed under: Attention Deficit Disorder
Question:
Get the support you need. Support from others is essential when you’re trying to make many life changes. You can build support among family and friends by bringing them into the process. Educate them about ADD (ADHD) as you educate yourself. You can also find support through Adult ADD (ADHD) Support Groups – which exist in many communities today. Such support groups can be located through the web sites of the two major national organizations for individuals with ADD (ADHD): Children and Adults with Attention Deficit Disorder and the Attention Deficit Disorder Association. Finding the right support can be hard. What have you done to find support in your family and in your community? What’s worked? What hasn’t? Kitten
Response:
Get the support you need. Support from others is essential when you’re trying to make many life changes. You can build support among family and friends by bringing them into the process. Educate them about ADD (ADHD) as you educate yourself. You can also find support through Adult ADD (ADHD) Support Groups – which exist in many communities today. Such support groups can be located through the web sites of the two major national organizations for individuals with ADD (ADHD): Children and Adults with Attention Deficit Disorder and the Attention Deficit Disorder Association. Finding the right support can be hard. What have you done to find support in your family and in your community? What’s worked? What hasn’t?
Educating my family has helped, my SO’s family also support us as he’s got ADHD too. After my panic disorder started up I realised I needed more help from an outside source so I have a home help who acts as a coach… helps motivate us and keep us on track. — Vashti
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Question:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You wish to change reality? Some reality can be changed: http://tinyurl.com/nuu64 [...] How well do you understand cognition? Well I guess i should know something about cognition. After all I have a Master Degree in Psychology and I work every day with people. And I work with cognitive therapy. But I have no experience as a psychologist with children and ADHD. And being a professional with your own children is a problem. I used to joke with ADHD, as you probably know it was called ‘minimal brain damage’ http://tinyurl.com/npm5z I used to say that this ‘minimal brain damage’ was so minimal that it came close to superstition. But of course they don’t call it that anymore. Nowadays they call it ‘attention deficit disorder (ADD) with or without hyperactivity’. Some time ago I found this article: http://tinyurl.com/o6bh3 I guess that I already then knew that my little son had this disorder. P E R W I L D A U I am a Danish psychologist. You can find me in the in
Question:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I understand cognition. I understand the essence of ‘biological process’. I understand subjectivity. I understand ADD and other cognitive proclivities. I understand a lot of things. The Wizard of Oz Paradox. What is it? Just follow the "yellow brick road". 
WOW, even Google can find the yellow brick road! :-O That may be the sequel, the Wonderful Wizkids of Oz, googling for the yellow brick road and taking their AD(H)D meds to keep focussed… http://www.turnmeondeadman.net/OZ/SpiritualJourney.html <!– frenzy —
The ‘Wizard of Oz Paradox’ … Sigh. … Waiting to stoke up the bile. A bit early in the day for some ‘Dutch Courage’, regrettably. Cordially, RL
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Yeah. … It would sure seem that most everyone has abandoned me. No surprise there, really. Of those that know me … One after another has gone terminally ’stupid’ on me. It is sort of like what has happened here, too. It is the end of the line. Either I do something or I don’t do something. So where is my next stop? ~ S O L U T I O N ~ 1) I should recognize how it is that I came to find myself in this mess. Easy. It was my ability which betrayed me. I wonder if I come across as being a "sicko" when I claim this? An ability which betrays a person. Hm … ~~~ Pure, ‘Wizard of Oz’. That is always the problem, ain’t it? Breaking out of the ‘Wizard of Oz’ paradox. Easy to say. … Easy to do. … Nastier than shit to figure out what needs to be done. Luckily, I know a generic solution, here. I understand cognition. I understand the essence of ‘biological process’. I understand subjectivity. I understand ADD and other cognitive proclivities. I understand a lot of things. The Wizard of Oz Paradox. What is it? The lion who defines courage but is fearful that it has none. The scarecrow who is all cerebral but lacks a brain and thinks itself to be stupid. The tin man who is all emotion and feeling … fluid, oil and hydraulics yet lacks a heart. ~~~ The possessing of an ability YET being totally useless, ineffective and insecure in that ability. How does one resolve the Wizard of Oz paradox? … Does one click one’s heels together 3 times so as to be deported back to Kansas in an instant? Well yeah, dudes and dudettes and dudekins; believe it or not; ti’s about that SIMPLE & EASY … … *providing* one knows what to do. ( And does it … )
As children we build up a map of interconnected memories; experiences and ‘manner by which they relate to each other’. This building process is mostly completed by the time a person becomes an adult. Full stop. That is all that one needs to realize. … At least; one just needs to realize that and appreciate the implications of ’such’. The overwhelming bulk of a person’s intelligence and ability does NOT reside at the attentional focus. … It does NOT reside at that moment-by-moment experience of reality. As I have pointed out elsewhere; the moment-by-moment local appreciation of things is very limited and localized. It is appropriately and necessarily so. How come? … It means that most of our smarts; our understanding of things has been preprocessed. It is out of sight; out of mind; perhaps never even realized … .. precisely BECAUSE it can be taken as granted … precisely because it can be implicitly ASSUMED. When people grow into adulthood; for the most part they cease learning. The emphasis is moved onto the appreciations, sensibilities and skills that have already been explored and integrated. Being impulsive … Blurting it out … Winging it. … Being careless and unthinking are apt to be much more reliable; intelligent and responsible acts than rationality would otherwise suppose. Example: Some idiots came up with the notion of "Attention Deficit Disorder" … Yes, we all know that there is a cluster of characteristics which warrant "lumping together" with the common tag (label) of ADD. Yet, when one looks at the very name, itself … A T T E N T I O N D E F I C I T D I S O R D E R … The ‘implicit’ suggestion is made that a ‘lack of concern for the focus’ ( a.k.a. attention) is <somehow defective. Hello? The vast bulk of a persons inteligence and ability does NOT reside at the attentional focus. It is hidden from the attentional focus intentionally and deliberately. Adults hide the background more than children. .. Adults concentrate more on the attentional focus because they have spent their childhood constructing that distilled map. Those with ADD come across as being childlike. There is much more to cognition than just ATTENTION .. focus .. and holding it. The ADD way is to "Find focus" .. to "Discover focus" … to "Create Focus" … to "Change Focus". The attention is not a static commodity. .. It is always changing. … it is always being discarded. … it is always being acquired .. it is always being reacquired ( displaced elsewhere) Those with ADD have cognitive habits which emphasize the dynamic and hidden qualities of attentional awareness. Duh … Does or doesn’t Clinton deserve to be president for his philandering with Lewinsky? … {{{ B O I N G }}} .. Your attention has just been hijacked. Are you aware of it? Thank God for ADD.
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sorry for hijacking your Oz metaphor. I understand you were just referring to the unusable potential (impotential?) and how it makes you feel powerless. Pitty that your own theory of ADD does not prevent you from falling back into your turd. greetz
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(impotential?) and how it makes you feel powerless. …
You need to ask? Somewhat "self-defining", eh. …Viagra Falls. "Honeymoon Capital" of the world. :- Pitty that your own theory of ADD does not prevent you from falling back into your turd.
Aha. … You are referring to the curse of ADD; the inability to get one’s shit together. ( See http://www.peevish.co.uk/slang/g.htm if required ) The whole thing is that … Shit happens. It comes together of it’s own accord. And the line of reasoning ( thought ) stops dead.
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I understand cognition. I understand the essence of ‘biological process’. I understand subjectivity. I understand ADD and other cognitive proclivities. I understand a lot of things. The Wizard of Oz Paradox. What is it?
Just follow the "yellow brick road". WOW, even Google can find the yellow brick road! :-O http://www.turnmeondeadman.net/OZ/SpiritualJourney.html <!– frenzy —
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I understand cognition. I understand the essence of ‘biological process’. I understand subjectivity. I understand ADD and other cognitive proclivities. I understand a lot of things. The Wizard of Oz Paradox. What is it? Just follow the "yellow brick road". WOW, even Google can find the yellow brick road! :-O
That may be the sequel, the Wonderful Wizkids of Oz, googling for the yellow brick road and taking their AD(H)D meds to keep focussed… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – http://www.turnmeondeadman.net/OZ/SpiritualJourney.html <!– frenzy —
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Yeah. … It would sure seem that most everyone has abandoned me. No surprise there, really. Of those that know me … One after another has gone terminally ’stupid’ on me. It is sort of like what has happened here, too. It is the end of the line. Either I do something or I don’t do something. So where is my next stop? ~ S O L U T I O N ~ 1) I should recognize how it is that I came to find myself in this mess. Easy. It was my ability which betrayed me. I wonder if I come across as being a "sicko" when I claim this? An ability which betrays a person. Hm … ~~~ Pure, ‘Wizard of Oz’. That is always the problem, ain’t it? Breaking out of the ‘Wizard of Oz’ paradox. Easy to say. … Easy to do. … Nastier than shit to figure out what needs to be done. Luckily, I know a generic solution, here. I understand cognition. I understand the essence of ‘biological process’. I understand subjectivity. I understand ADD and other cognitive proclivities. I understand a lot of things.
The Wizard of Oz Paradox. What is it? The lion who defines courage but is fearful that it has none. The scarecrow who is all cerebral but lacks a brain and thinks itself to be stupid. The tin man who is all emotion and feeling … fluid, oil and hydraulics yet lacks a heart. ~~~ The possessing of an ability YET being totally useless, ineffective and insecure in that ability. How does one resolve the Wizard of Oz paradox? … Does one click one’s heels together 3 times so as to be deported back to Kansas in an instant? Well yeah, dudes and dudettes and dudekins; believe it or not; ti’s about that SIMPLE & EASY … … *providing* one knows what to do. ( And does it … ) (To be Continued … )
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Yeah. … It would sure seem that most everyone has abandoned me. No surprise there, really. Of those that know me … One after another has gone terminally ’stupid’ on me. It is sort of like what has happened here, too. It is the end of the line. Either I do something or I don’t do something. So where is my next stop? ~ S O L U T I O N ~ 1) I should recognize how it is that I came to find myself in this mess. Easy. It was my ability which betrayed me. I wonder if I come across as being a "sicko" when I claim this? An ability which betrays a person. Hm … ~~~ Pure, ‘Wizard of Oz’. That is always the problem, ain’t it? Breaking out of the ‘Wizard of Oz’ paradox. Easy to say. … Easy to do. … Nastier than shit to figure out what needs to be done. Luckily, I know a generic solution, here. I understand cognition. I understand the essence of ‘biological process’. I understand subjectivity. I understand ADD and other cognitive proclivities. I understand a lot of things. Cordially, RL (To be Continued … )
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Question:
Exactly.
Repost, sorry. (BTW, I also posted as aha! earlier) Just wanted to let you know I think your idea for dealing with toxic people is great, and you’ve inspired me to do the same. I’m not supposed to be spending as much time on line as I did today, but a little show of solidarity never hurts. marcia
PS: For those of you who wish to re-inforce the DELUSIONS of the lying anonymous stalking filth Marcia/Deleted/Soyouknow/SheerHypocrisy/Nowyouknow/(Fake)Kali, TheOtherKali/"It" who has cyberstalked me into ASAD, SPP, News.groups, Soc-net-people, and ASD-med, via stealth….she’s bipolar. So what? That tells you what, exactly? If you think it means my perspective is invalid, or that *I’m* delusional, you’re wrong. First, I have bipolar II disorder, which some around here will know means I don’t have full-blown, psychotic mania. Second, I take medication, which tends to give me a pretty firm grasp on reality, which is more than I can say for you. I suspect I won’t need to point out the irony of Linda Gore trying to stigmatize someone for being mentally ill. You’re lucky mental health laws have changed, or you’d be spending the rest of *your* life on some chronic back ward in a State hospital somewhere (like Nevada, maybe). There’s a good chance you’ll deteriorate to that point, anyway. Third, I’ve had an assisted epiphany about dealing with you, and have decided to impose the Usenet Death Penalty on you for crimes against humanity. May you rest in pieces.** 
**note to the Archiver: no actual violence is being threatened or implied.
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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have offered Jan and Ilena to end this war on more than one occasion. Neither have accepted. <snipped Thus, as of tomorrow, the 230th Anniversary of the Declaration of Independence, Ilena Rosenthal and Jan Drew are subject to Usenet Death Penalty. May they Rest in Perfidy. Agreed. May we all enjoy our independence from those who desire continual discord. Kitten
In the den of liars.
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Now she’s adding ‘correction’ to her drama queen puking….. Sheesh!
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – CORRECTION: I have no doubt that Barrett and Polevoy would give me the ‘death penalty’ if they found me. Polevoy is especially frightening and insane, in my opinion. He went so far as to send crying, whining letters to my attorneys claiming I ‘ruined his life.’ This from a man whose life is about destroying others … mine included. Did he not believe that my attorneys know that he wants to win and me lose???? Pathetic. Some months EARLIER , he was prancing around Usenet calling himself "Vera" and harassing me and Dr. Clark … another of his targets. See: www.BreastImplantAwareness.org/QuackbustersVsIlena.htm which will reveal that this case started with his maniacal campaign against an alternative talk show host, Ms Christine McPhee. He is also on a rampage against a young man named Adam Dreamhealer … posting blogs and defamation against him … trying to destroy his life and reputation. The recent torrents from Penley Ayers posting her hallucinations about my sexual and personal life in an obvious attempt to find out if I am living alone or with my husband was concerning to my legal team and my loved ones. If Polevoy eliminated me … it could save him from joining Barrett and Chris Grell in losing against me … and several hundred thousand dollars in legal fees. www.BreastImplantAwareness.org/QuackbustersVsIlena.htm www.BreastImplantAwareness.org/QuackWatchWatch.htm www.BreastImplantAwareness.org/PropagandistProbert.html www.BreastImplantAwareness.org/blog.htm
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Perfidy Probert … why don’t you tell your fans how you the NY Law Fund had to pay 6 of your disgruntled clients because of your
Gosh Ilena, did your Daddy have to cough up some money to the victim on his fraud charge? Did his estate pay the IRS the $15,000+ he owed in back taxes too? Public record……
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have offered Jan and Ilena to end this war on more than one occasion. Neither have accepted. <snipped Thus, as of tomorrow, the 230th Anniversary of the Declaration of Independence, Ilena Rosenthal and Jan Drew are subject to Usenet Death Penalty. May they Rest in Perfidy. Agreed. May we all enjoy our independence from those who desire continual discord. Kitten In the den of liars.
Speaking of filthy little liars marcia/Deleted/soyouknow/sheerhypocrisy/Kali/TheOtherKali/Nowyouknow/IT/AHA /dedge is a seriously mentally ill psych patient with bipolar disorder…who thus far, has cyberstalked me into the following 5 ngs: ASAD, SPP, News.groups, Soc.net-people, ASD-med Newsgroups: alt.astronomy,alt.support.attn-deficit,rec.running,sci.med,misc.writing NNTP-Posting-Host: 65.24.239.69 Newsgroups: alt.support.attn-deficit Deficit Disorder and OCD/Anxiety/Panic Disorder Organization: http://groups.google.com Lines: 84 NNTP-Posting-Host: 65.24.239.69 Newsgroups: alt.support.attn-deficit pharmaceutical marketeers, convicted child molesters, porn king, disbarred lawyer, S & M afficionado, and their mentally ill supporters and apologists publicly TORTURE innocent people in global forums? Organization: http://groups.google.com Lines: 13 NNTP-Posting-Host: 65.24.239.69 Newsgroups: alt.support.attn-deficit yadda… Organization: http://groups.google.com Lines: 25 NNTP-Posting-Host: 65.24.239.69 Newsgroups: sci.psychology.psychotherapy Organization: http://groups.google.com Lines: 4 NNTP-Posting-Host: 65.24.239.69 I’ve been gone awhile and have returned to so many new faces! I notice one really surprising change. No sign of Linda Gore. Whatever happened to her? Newsgroups: sci.psychology.psychotherapy NNTP-Posting-Host: 65.24.239.69 Newsgroups: sci.psychology.psychotherapy Organization: http://groups.google.com Lines: 28 NNTP-Posting-Host: 65.24.239.69 Newsgroups: news.groups Organization: http://groups.google.com Lines: 10 NNTP-Posting-Host: 65.24.239.69 Linda Gore (who posts under this name), Sue Me For Posting Facts, and her various nyms is stalking, harassing, and making paranoid and defamatory accusations against innocent people. She has been doing this for years. Is there *anything* that can be done about it? Can Google Groups suspend a person’s posting priveledges on Usenet, or is it a free-for-all? It doesn’t seem like action is taken when you report abuse. Newsgroups: soc.net-people defamatory messages about people all over the internet. She will research and post your real name. Check the headers. Organization: http://groups.google.com Lines: 8 NNTP-Posting-Host: 65.24.239.69 Interact with this person at your own risk. If you cross her she’ll accuse you of stalking her using sock puppets and forming predatory cliques designed to bully and intimidate her. Check all the messages she’s posted in this forum (unless she pulls them in response to this post). If you’re not on Google Groups, she has filled approximately two pages with accusations against various people, some of whom are her former friends. No one is safe from this person.
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www.BreastImplantAwareness.org/QuackWatchWatch.htm www.BreastImplantAwareness.org/PropagandistProbert.html www.BreastImplantAwareness.org/blog.htm
First of all I never made such a ‘purchase’. You only made that up. Second, I was indeed doing internet research on "Pandora’s Products" a San Diego registered business in the names of you and your business partner (Anthony Zaffuto)……when I discovered a product called Pandora’s Box (which you deny receiving commissions from). Well, based on the similarities would naturally assume a close association. As everyone is aware from his background, Zaffuto has produced several ‘instruction’ books and video tapes after he ran a ‘boys ranch for troubled youth’. His books/videos include one amazing instructional for boys to learn male masturbation. (One can only assume the type of ‘therapy’ the troubled boys received……) Here is a link to some of his other videos http://www.videolearning.com/vllx.php?opt=browsrch&chapsect=3803 Complete Guide to Oral Lovemaking Complete guide to Sex Toys and Devices Complete Guide to Sexual Positions all by Dr. Anthony Zaffuto, Ph.D. 60 min. $29.95
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HEADERS TRIMMED TO ASAD ONLY – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have offered Jan and Ilena to end this war on more than one occasion. Neither have accepted. <snipped Thus, as of tomorrow, the 230th Anniversary of the Declaration of Independence, Ilena Rosenthal and Jan Drew are subject to Usenet Death Penalty. May they Rest in Perfidy. Agreed. May we all enjoy our independence from those who desire continual discord.
Thank goodness for filters…which keep getting bigger as the names change…. UDP is a great idea….just be ready for "zombies" as names change to avoid filters ( I have seen them in other places) Buny " Nobody realizes that some people expend tremendous energy merely to be normal." ~ Albert Camus
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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I have offered Jan and Ilena to end this war on more than one occasion. Neither have accepted. Jan has clearly said: The peace must come from you. Your LIES and postings with FAKE names show you are DESPICABLE. [Happy anniversary to me. Then you post as Freddie. It was NOT your wife who e-mailed me. It was YOU] You have repeatedly LIED. Your so-called *peace offer* was also FAKE. Posted for the sole reason, you wanted the websites which are a result of your behavior and LIES…to disappear. If YOU want peace. STOP LYING. Stop accusing others of what YOU yourself are guilty of. Change your despicable behavior. Sadly this behavior IS why you were disbarred. STOP these newsgroups for your insane need to argue. Clearly, with Jan’s standard of accusing and anyone with whom she disagrees of lying, since she does not understand what a lie it,
Thanks for showing, YOU do NOT want peace. Poor DTABOR. it would be impossible for me to "stop lying" unless I either 1) stopped posting and/or 2) merely posted, "Yes Jan, you are correct."
Yes. Finally…you got it correct. Now..for the proof. You chose to LIE.. and LIE …and LIE.
Fri, Jun 23 2006 [Subject title. All ADHD meds are not the same..] That is real. I offered you and Ilena a mutual cease fire, no conditions, and you and she slapped the same condition on it. I replied: Sat, Jun 24 2006 No conditions? Just EXACTLY is this * cease fire* you offered?
Mon, Jun 26 2006 Addressing only the substantive issues in posts, including the biases of the authors of articles that are posted. Period. My reply: So…you refuse to post your ceasefire. Why is that, Mark? You stated the below in this thread. *That is real. I offered you and Ilena a mutual cease fire, no conditions, and you and she slapped the same condition on it.* Wed, Jun 28 2006
Oh, I see…you asked "Just EXACTLY is this * cease fire* you offered?" when you meant to ask "Just EXACTLY where is this * cease fire* you offered?" You should be more clear. It is in the archives. Look it up. Easy to see why he refused.. again. I did look it up. http://groups.google.com/group/misc.health.alternative/msg/5dc4c69029… Tues, Feb 8 2005 If they can do it, why can’t we? Israel, Palestinians Declare Ceasefire http://groups.google.com/group/misc.health.alternative/msg/17a05b4c76… Look at the first message in this thread. It is your choice to emulate the Palestinians and Israelis, What is you choice? Commence declaring Ceasefire. RIGHT NOW. http://groups.google.com/group/misc.health.alternative/msg/07e38a462c… Fri, Feb 11 2005 When you stop, I stop, not before. Ceasfire? 1 Mark Probert Feb 12 2005 http://groups.google.com/group/misc.health.alternative/msg/78eb9b427f… Jan, if you want a ceasfire, act like it. I am tired of being the first to turn the other cheek and being trashed by your and Ilena. My offer, like that between Abbas and Sharon, was unconditional. My next offer will be conditional. Your choice. Choose peace. == All should be able to see [as shown above]I already did on Feb 10 2005. http://groups.google.com/group/misc.health.alternative/msg/5f0e54e999…, Feb 13 2005 You didn’t make an offer, you posted a question, so all can see you are lying AGAIN.
To any intelligent being, it was an offer. That is sufficiently clear. You did not make an offer. You posted a question. == Now..here is Mark Probert telling a whopper lie. http://groups.google.com/group/misc.health.alternative/msg/2b208c112a… Feb 11 2005, 2:11 pm YOU are fully responsible for Ilena contacting my wife who is not a participant in usenet. http://groups.google.com/group/misc.health.alternative/msg/5f0e54e999… Sent : Saturday, February 12, 2005 12:27 PM Subject : Re: New Website Exposes Ilena Rosenthal and the Humantics Foundation | | | Inbox MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: from mail.lumbercartel.com ([162.42.126.18]) by mc3-f38.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Sat, 12 Feb 2005 09:28:17 -0800 Received: from mproxy.googlegroups.com ([216.239.56.131])by mail.lumbercartel.com with esmtp (Exim 4.43)id 1D0145-0006r1-2qfor Received: by mproxy.googlegroups.com with SMTP id s51so1012553cwc for Received: by 10.11.88.27 with SMTP id l27mr71314cwb; Sat, 12 Feb 2005 09:27:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from 64.12.116.136 by f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com with HTTP; Sat, That IP address resolves to: Search results for: 64.12.116.136 OrgName: America Online, Inc. OrgID: AMERIC-158 Address: 10600 Infantry Ridge Road City: Manassas StateProv: VA PostalCode: 20109 Country: US Therefore, you sent it. Search results for: 152.163.100.136 OrgName: America Online OrgID: AOL Address: 22000 AOL Way City: Dulles StateProv: VA PostalCode: 20166 Country: US http://groups.google.com/group/alt.support.breast-implant/msg/9645079… Feb 13 2005, 1:19 pm An additional note: Should you email me again I will construe that to be a withdrawal of your request that not email you, and I will, when I deem it appropriate, email you. Neither is going to happen. Further, Ilena has flatly refused refused to even consider peace.
Further, here is your Peace Offer. [the one you LIED about REPEATEDLY and stated: Unconditional] http://groups.google.com/group/alt.support.breast-implant/msg/c74c400… I will, as of this posting, Wednesday, March 16, 2005, at 4:20 PM EST, unconditionally cease and desist from posting to Ilena, about Ilena or in response to Ilena. I hope that you, who have been a supporter of hers, will now move and directly ask her to do the same thing. Further, if she ceases her actions towards me, I will render the posts in the Fan Club unreadable. If she removes any and all webpages regarding me and/or my family, the Fan Club will cease to exist. == Still claiming.. I don’t understand what a lie is? http://groups.google.com/group/misc.health.alternative/msg/5dc4c69029… Tues, Feb 8 2005 If they can do it, why can’t we? Israel, Palestinians Declare Ceasefire == There IS the question. NOT an offer. Still claiming I don’t understand what a lie is? http://groups.google.com/group/misc.health.alternative/msg/5f0e54e999…, Feb 13 2005 You didn’t make an offer, you posted a question, so all can see you are lying AGAIN.
To any intelligent being, it was an offer. === You are not an intelligent being. In fact, she has demonstrated that she will continue her relentless attacks even when she gets her answers. Thus, with her, there is no peace.
There WAS never any peace from..YOU, Mark! The ONLY solution to this is to impose a modified (modified in the sense that it is not done with software or for spamming) Usenet Death Penalty. They are Usenet polluters, polluting Usenet with their bile.
Like yours. See above. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usenet_Death_Penalty where no one, under any circumstances, respond to any of their messages, for any reason. If they post something that needs to be refuted, commencing a new thread without reference to them, would be proper.
LOLOLOL!! Now where have I seen this before! Oh..YES. From Richard H Jacobson. Who IS a proven liar. If everyone signs on to this, they will be left like a junk yard dog, barking at passing cars that do not care about them. To be truly effective, everyone should either explicitly or implicitly sign on to this. Thus, as of tomorrow, the 230th Anniversary of the Declaration of Independence, Ilena Rosenthal and Jan Drew are subject to Usenet Death Penalty. May they Rest in Perfidy.
Hot Doggies!! Mark’s decision comes at an expected time. Right.. AFTER he is BUSTED. [so shook up he posted to alt.support.breast-implant..twice!] From your link: Passive: with a passive UDP, messages that fall under the UDP will simply be ignored and will not spread. Oops. There goes that plan. DTABOR. Whayagonnado, Mark. Post under another FAKE name? Freddie.
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Now she’s adding ‘correction’ to her drama queen puking….. Sheesh!
If she’s the drama queen, then why is it Probert who is posting make believe proclamations of her Death to really stir the pot?
Response:
Respond with a laundry list of sins. What an ass!
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Perfidy Probert … why don’t you tell your fans how you the NY Law Fund had to pay 6 of your disgruntled clients because of your Gosh Ilena, did your Daddy have to cough up some money to the victim on his fraud charge? Did his estate pay the IRS the $15,000+ he owed in back taxes too? Public record……
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have offered Jan and Ilena to end this war on more than one occasion. Neither have accepted. <snipped Thus, as of tomorrow, the 230th Anniversary of the Declaration of Independence, Ilena Rosenthal and Jan Drew are subject to Usenet Death Penalty. May they Rest in Perfidy. Agreed. May we all enjoy our independence from those who desire continual discord. Exactly. You’ve inspired me.
You are easy to inspire. aha! OrgName: Road Runner HoldCo LLC OrgID: RRMA Address: 13241 Woodland Park Road City: Herndon StateProv: VA PostalCode: 20171 Country: US ThePsyko Path: g2news2.google.com!news4.google.com!news.glorb.com!news-out.octanews.net!in digo.octanews.net!authen.yellow.readfreenews.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Newsgroups: sci.psychology.psychotherapy Organization: None User-Agent: Xnews/5.04.25 X-face: X-mouseover: OnNekkidEvent() X-Wife: bitch, bitch, bitch X-Dickless: Brad J (STALKER!!) X-Pathetic-Kidnapper: Archangel X-AHM-Spankard: Too many to list here LOL!! X-Lits: Fin X-tra-Helping-Of: bacon please X-pedite: The weekend X-plane: why? it’s not even spelled right!! X-Fuckhead: Nope, not ex.. still a usenet fuckhead and damn proud of it X-cuse: I have mad cow disease X-Props: To the regs of AHM for helping to expose sick fuck pedos everywhere Lines: 30 X-Trace: Sheerhypocrisy/Kali/TheOtherKali/It/Aha/Psyko – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have no doubt that Barrett and Polevoy would give me the ‘death penalty’ if they found me. Polevoy is especially frightening and insane, in my opinion. He went so far as to send crying, whining letters to my attorneys claiming I ‘ruined his life.’ This from a man whose life is about destroying others … mine included. Did he not believe that my attorneys know that he wants to win and me lose???? Pathetic. Some months later, he was prancing around Usenet calling himself "Vera" and harassing me and Dr. Clark … another of his targets. See: www.BreastImplantAwareness.org/QuackbustersVsIlena.htm which will reveal that this case started with his maniacal campaign against an alternative talk show host, Ms Christine McPhee. He is also on a rampage against a young man named Adam Dreamhealer … posting blogs and defamation against him … trying to destroy his life and reputation. The recent torrents from Penley Ayers posting her hallucinations about my sexual and personal life in an obvious attempt to find out if I am living alone or with my husband was concerning to my legal team and my loved ones.
Dear God you are too funny! Hey, your sex life is what you have publicized via your own documented promotions: First of all I never made such a ‘purchase’. You only made that up. Second, I was indeed doing internet research on "Pandora’s Products" a San Diego registered business in the names of you and your business partner (Anthony Zaffuto)……when I discovered a product called Pandora’s Box (which you deny receiving commissions from). Well, based on the similarities would naturally assume a close association. As everyone is aware from his background, Zaffuto has produced several ‘instruction’ books and video tapes after he ran a ‘boys ranch for troubled youth’. His books/videos include one amazing instructional for boys to learn male masturbation. (One can only assume the type of ‘therapy’ the troubled boys received……) Here is a link to some of his other videos http://www.videolearning.com/vllx.php?opt=browsrch&chapsect=3803 Complete Guide to Oral Lovemaking Complete guide to Sex Toys and Devices Complete Guide to Sexual Positions all by Dr. Anthony Zaffuto, Ph.D. 60 min. $29.95 If Polevoy eliminated me … it could save him from joining Barrett and Chris Grell in losing against me … and several hundred thousand dollars in legal fees.
What a drama queen…..
Response:
Peace Probert YOU believe you are in a position to offer me peace
You do not understand. I am not offering you anything. I do not care what you do. As of 12:01AM EDT tomorrow, AFAIC, you have passed on. You can rant and rave, call me what you wish, but, you no longer exist. The exact same thing applies to Jan. If you post something of substance that I want to comment on, I will start a new thread and have no reference to you. You are subject to a UDP.
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have offered Jan and Ilena to end this war on more than one occasion. Neither have accepted. <snipped Thus, as of tomorrow, the 230th Anniversary of the Declaration of Independence, Ilena Rosenthal and Jan Drew are subject to Usenet Death Penalty. May they Rest in Perfidy. Agreed. May we all enjoy our independence from those who desire continual discord. Exactly.
You’ve inspired me.
Response:
Perfidy Probert … why don’t you tell your fans how you the NY Law Fund had to pay 6 of your disgruntled clients because of your
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – CORRECTION: I have no doubt that Barrett and Polevoy would give me the ‘death penalty’ if they found me. Polevoy is especially frightening and insane, in my opinion. He went so far as to send crying, whining letters to my attorneys claiming I ‘ruined his life.’ This from a man whose life is about destroying others … mine included. Did he not believe that my attorneys know that he wants to win and me lose???? Pathetic. Some months EARLIER , he was prancing around Usenet calling himself "Vera" and harassing me and Dr. Clark … another of his targets. See: www.BreastImplantAwareness.org/QuackbustersVsIlena.htm which will reveal that this case started with his maniacal campaign against an alternative talk show host, Ms Christine McPhee. He is also on a rampage against a young man named Adam Dreamhealer … posting blogs and defamation against him … trying to destroy his life and reputation. The recent torrents from Penley Ayers posting her hallucinations about my sexual and personal life in an obvious attempt to find out if I am living alone or with my husband was concerning to my legal team and my loved ones. If Polevoy eliminated me … it could save him from joining Barrett and Chris Grell in losing against me … and several hundred thousand dollars in legal fees.
IMO, cyberstalkers are forever coming up with new PLOYS to solicit yet another new round of aggression against the target(s) in the hope that one of their ploys will incite one of their psychotic of psychopathic minions to feel justified in doing the dirty deed. These make-believe net deaths/usenet death penalty’s are death wishes; therefore, are more concerning then most of the ruses they have employed to solicit aggression against targets. If you and Jan would like, I can email you info about elected representative who is interested in hearing from targets of gang stalking being made the recipient of ghoulish death wishes. etc. These death wishes are way out of line. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – www.BreastImplantAwareness.org/QuackbustersVsIlena.htm www.BreastImplantAwareness.org/QuackWatchWatch.htm www.BreastImplantAwareness.org/PropagandistProbert.html www.BreastImplantAwareness.org/blog.htm
Response:
I have offered Jan and Ilena to end this war on more than one occasion. Neither have accepted. <snipped Thus, as of tomorrow, the 230th Anniversary of the Declaration of Independence, Ilena Rosenthal and Jan Drew are subject to Usenet Death Penalty. May they Rest in Perfidy.
Agreed. May we all enjoy our independence from those who desire continual discord. Kitten
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have offered Jan and Ilena to end this war on more than one occasion. Neither have accepted. <snipped Thus, as of tomorrow, the 230th Anniversary of the Declaration of Independence, Ilena Rosenthal and Jan Drew are subject to Usenet Death Penalty. May they Rest in Perfidy. Agreed. May we all enjoy our independence from those who desire continual discord.
Exactly.
Response:
Another PLOY to solicit yet more aggression against you and Jan.. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – www.BreastImplantAwareness.org/QuackWatchWatch.htm www.BreastImplantAwareness.org/PropagandistProbert.html www.BreastImplantAwareness.org/blog.htm
Response:
I have no doubt that Barrett and Polevoy would give me the ‘death penalty’ if they found me. Polevoy is especially frightening and insane, in my opinion. He went so far as to send crying, whining letters to my attorneys claiming I ‘ruined his life.’ This from a man whose life is about destroying others … mine included. Did he not believe that my attorneys know that he wants to win and me lose???? Pathetic. Some months later, he was prancing around Usenet calling himself "Vera" and harassing me and Dr. Clark … another of his targets. See: www.BreastImplantAwareness.org/QuackbustersVsIlena.htm which will reveal that this case started with his maniacal campaign against an alternative talk show host, Ms Christine McPhee. He is also on a rampage against a young man named Adam Dreamhealer … posting blogs and defamation against him … trying to destroy his life and reputation. The recent torrents from Penley Ayers posting her hallucinations about my sexual and personal life in an obvious attempt to find out if I am living alone or with my husband was concerning to my legal team and my loved ones. If Polevoy eliminated me … it could save him from joining Barrett and Chris Grell in losing against me … and several hundred thousand dollars in legal fees. www.BreastImplantAwareness.org/QuackbustersVsIlena.htm www.BreastImplantAwareness.org/QuackWatchWatch.htm www.BreastImplantAwareness.org/PropagandistProbert.html www.BreastImplantAwareness.org/blog.htm
Response:
Peace Marla? Peace "Rosenthal Researcher" ? ? ? Disbarred atttorney, Probert YOU believe you are in a position to offer me peace while a member of the Rag-tag Posse of Snakeoil Vigilantes ???? Are you under some enormous delusion that if you stopped attacking me … Polevoy and all his shills in disguises would go away? Are you aware that although Polevoy cries on his website that I would not settle with him … thus we are on our way to the Supreme Court … that he was offered a "walk away" settlement … neither he nor I would win / neither he nor I would lose. Wouldn’t cost him a penny. He refused … now Myrl Jeffcoat as Will Ketcher has spent months harassing and libeling me while advertising his garbage. You went underground several times pretending you wanted "peace" while attacking me under other names … just like your buddy, Myrl Jeffcoat just did. www.BreastImplantAwareness.org/myrl.html You’re like one foot soldier in Iraq declaring ‘peace’ while the murders and attacks and tortures by US Marines etc. continues … You want attention for your impotent ‘peace’ rally … you got it. www.BreastImplantAwareness.org/QuackWatchWatch.htm www.BreastImplantAwareness.org/PropagandistProbert.html www.BreastImplantAwareness.org/blog.htm
Response:
CORRECTION: I have no doubt that Barrett and Polevoy would give me the ‘death penalty’ if they found me. Polevoy is especially frightening and insane, in my opinion. He went so far as to send crying, whining letters to my attorneys claiming I ‘ruined his life.’ This from a man whose life is about destroying others … mine included. Did he not believe that my attorneys know that he wants to win and me lose???? Pathetic. Some months EARLIER , he was prancing around Usenet calling himself "Vera" and harassing me and Dr. Clark … another of his targets. See: www.BreastImplantAwareness.org/QuackbustersVsIlena.htm which will reveal that this case started with his maniacal campaign against an alternative talk show host, Ms Christine McPhee. He is also on a rampage against a young man named Adam Dreamhealer … posting blogs and defamation against him … trying to destroy his life and reputation. The recent torrents from Penley Ayers posting her hallucinations about my sexual and personal life in an obvious attempt to find out if I am living alone or with my husband was concerning to my legal team and my loved ones. If Polevoy eliminated me … it could save him from joining Barrett and Chris Grell in losing against me … and several hundred thousand dollars in legal fees. www.BreastImplantAwareness.org/QuackbustersVsIlena.htm www.BreastImplantAwareness.org/QuackWatchWatch.htm www.BreastImplantAwareness.org/PropagandistProbert.html www.BreastImplantAwareness.org/blog.htm
Response:
I have offered Jan and Ilena to end this war on more than one occasion. Neither have accepted. Jan has clearly said: The peace must come from you. Your LIES and postings with FAKE names show you are DESPICABLE. [Happy anniversary to me. Then you post as Freddie. It was NOT your wife who e-mailed me. It was YOU] You have repeatedly LIED. Your so-called *peace offer* was also FAKE. Posted for the sole reason, you wanted the websites which are a result of your behavior and LIES…to disappear. If YOU want peace. STOP LYING. Stop accusing others of what YOU yourself are guilty of. Change your despicable behavior. Sadly this behavior IS why you were disbarred. STOP these newsgroups for your insane need to argue. Clearly, with Jan’s standard of accusing and anyone with whom she disagrees of lying, since she does not understand what a lie it, it would be impossible for me to "stop lying" unless I either 1) stopped posting and/or 2) merely posted, "Yes Jan, you are correct." Neither is going to happen. Further, Ilena has flatly refused refused to even consider peace. In fact, she has demonstrated that she will continue her relentless attacks even when she gets her answers. Thus, with her, there is no peace. The ONLY solution to this is to impose a modified (modified in the sense that it is not done with software or for spamming) Usenet Death Penalty. They are Usenet polluters, polluting Usenet with their bile. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usenet_Death_Penalty where no one, under any circumstances, respond to any of their messages, for any reason. If they post something that needs to be refuted, commencing a new thread without reference to them, would be proper. If everyone signs on to this, they will be left like a junk yard dog, barking at passing cars that do not care about them. To be truly effective, everyone should either explicitly or implicitly sign on to this. Thus, as of tomorrow, the 230th Anniversary of the Declaration of Independence, Ilena Rosenthal and Jan Drew are subject to Usenet Death Penalty. May they Rest in Perfidy.
Response:
www.BreastImplantAwareness.org/QuackWatchWatch.htm www.BreastImplantAwareness.org/PropagandistProbert.html www.BreastImplantAwareness.org/blog.htm
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have offered Jan and Ilena to end this war on more than one occasion. Neither have accepted. Jan has clearly said: The peace must come from you. Your LIES and postings with FAKE names show you are DESPICABLE. [Happy anniversary to me. Then you post as Freddie. It was NOT your wife who e-mailed me. It was YOU] You have repeatedly LIED. Your so-called *peace offer* was also FAKE. Posted for the sole reason, you wanted the websites which are a result of your behavior and LIES…to disappear. If YOU want peace. STOP LYING. Stop accusing others of what YOU yourself are guilty of. Change your despicable behavior. Sadly this behavior IS why you were disbarred. STOP these newsgroups for your insane need to argue. Clearly, with Jan’s standard of accusing and anyone with whom she disagrees of lying, since she does not understand what a lie it, it would be impossible for me to "stop lying" unless I either 1) stopped posting and/or 2) merely posted, "Yes Jan, you are correct." Neither is going to happen. Further, Ilena has flatly refused refused to even consider peace. In fact, she has demonstrated that she will continue her relentless attacks even when she gets her answers. Thus, with her, there is no peace. The ONLY solution to this is to impose a modified (modified in the sense that it is not done with software or for spamming) Usenet Death Penalty. They are Usenet polluters, polluting Usenet with their bile. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usenet_Death_Penalty where no one, under any circumstances, respond to any of their messages, for any reason. If they post something that needs to be refuted, commencing a new thread without reference to them, would be proper. If everyone signs on to this, they will be left like a junk yard dog, barking at passing cars that do not care about them. To be truly effective, everyone should either explicitly or implicitly sign on to this. Thus, as of tomorrow, the 230th Anniversary of the Declaration of Independence, Ilena Rosenthal and Jan Drew are subject to Usenet Death Penalty. May they Rest in Perfidy.
A make believe UDP, eh? Le a
Response:
Question:
Thanks Sue. They serve real coffee, have selectable food menues, much better snacks, and yes, the staff is NICER ~ ! They place is far prettier, and I get 10 mind/day of web access. But I liked the Bellevue docs better, even if they DID misdiagnose me.
Oh? Well, I knew that; and, am sooooooo glad for your sake that the pdoc’s at Cornell realized it. Have you been Rx’d an AD? If so, which one? What’s your prognosis? Will you have to remain an in-patient for an extended period—or, just a few weeks? Also, has a social worker been assigned your case—to help you navigate the social services *system* so you will enuff $$ for basic needs? I’m so relieved you are getting some REAL help! ((((Virginia)))))
Response:
Gary Bunch 120 West Weiuca Road, Suite 200 Atlanta, Georgia 30342 (404) 943-0220 FAX: (404) 943-0971 Mr. Bunch says "I’m not anti-psychiatry," but he specializes in medical (including psychiatric) malpractice, and he represented an ex-patient who won a $3.4 million judgment for an unjustified psychiatric commitment that took place in 1993. At the end of 1999 Mr. Bunch had four other unjustified psychiatric commitment lawsuits pending: two in Atlanta, one in Boston, one in Chicago, and he was investigating another in New York City.
Response:
No, Kitty, the Cornell docs do not realize it. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thanks Sue. They serve real coffee, have selectable food menues, much better snacks, and yes, the staff is NICER ~ ! They place is far prettier, and I get 10 mind/day of web access. But I liked the Bellevue docs better, even if they DID misdiagnose me. Oh? Well, I knew that; and, am sooooooo glad for your sake that the pdoc’s at Cornell realized it. Have you been Rx’d an AD? If so, which one? What’s your prognosis? Will you have to remain an in-patient for an extended period—or, just a few weeks? Also, has a social worker been assigned your case—to help you navigate the social services *system* so you will enuff $$ for basic needs? I’m so relieved you are getting some REAL help! ((((Virginia)))))
Response:
They give me lithium and wellbutrin. Lithium makes you feel stupid and nauseuas and slow. But the WB keeps me awake, if impaired. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thanks Sue. They serve real coffee, have selectable food menues, much better snacks, and yes, the staff is NICER ~ ! They place is far prettier, and I get 10 mind/day of web access. But I liked the Bellevue docs better, even if they DID misdiagnose me. Oh? Well, I knew that; and, am sooooooo glad for your sake that the pdoc’s at Cornell realized it. Have you been Rx’d an AD? If so, which one? What’s your prognosis? Will you have to remain an in-patient for an extended period—or, just a few weeks? Also, has a social worker been assigned your case—to help you navigate the social services *system* so you will enuff $$ for basic needs? I’m so relieved you are getting some REAL help! ((((Virginia)))))
Response:
They give me lithium and wellbutrin. Lithium makes you feel stupid and nauseuas and slow.
Hmmmm It doesn’t do that to everyone. Lithium induces slight or subclinical hypothyroidism in many users; however, Lithium induces SEVERE hypothyroidism in approx. 10% of all users. http://www.psychiatrictimes.com/p020156.html The Complex Interrelationship of Lithium and the Thyroid By Patrick Oakley, B.Med., FRACP Psychiatric Times January 2002 Vol. XIX Issue 1 "Lazarus listed impaired thyroidal uptake of iodine, impaired iodination of tyrosine, altered thyroglobulin structure and impaired release of thyroxine from the thyroid gland as the mechanisms by which lithium induces hypothyroidism." http://thyroid.about.com/ Hypothyroidism or low thyroid symptoms of thyroid problems include: . Fatigue and weakness . Depression . Weight gain . Low basal temperature, cold intolerance, cold hands and feet . Dry and coarse skin . Heavy menstrual periods . Insomnia . High cholesterol . Sluggish bowels, constipation . Poor memory, forgetfulness, DEMENTIA . Nervousness and tremors . Immune system problems . Hair loss – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – But the WB keeps me awake, if impaired. Thanks Sue. They serve real coffee, have selectable food menues, much better snacks, and yes, the staff is NICER ~ ! They place is far prettier, and I get 10 mind/day of web access. But I liked the Bellevue docs better, even if they DID misdiagnose me. Oh? Well, I knew that; and, am sooooooo glad for your sake that the pdoc’s at Cornell realized it. Have you been Rx’d an AD? If so, which one? What’s your prognosis? Will you have to remain an in-patient for an extended period—or, just a few weeks? Also, has a social worker been assigned your case—to help you navigate the social services *system* so you will enuff $$ for basic needs? I’m so relieved you are getting some REAL help! ((((Virginia)))))
Response:
No, Kitty, the Cornell docs do not realize it.
So sorry. Did they perform thyroid tests on you BEFORE prescribing lithium? See other posts. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thanks Sue. They serve real coffee, have selectable food menues, much better snacks, and yes, the staff is NICER ~ ! They place is far prettier, and I get 10 mind/day of web access. But I liked the Bellevue docs better, even if they DID misdiagnose me. Oh? Well, I knew that; and, am sooooooo glad for your sake that the pdoc’s at Cornell realized it. Have you been Rx’d an AD? If so, which one? What’s your prognosis? Will you have to remain an in-patient for an extended period—or, just a few weeks? Also, has a social worker been assigned your case—to help you navigate the social services *system* so you will enuff $$ for basic needs? I’m so relieved you are getting some REAL help! ((((Virginia)))))
Response:
Yes, sounds about right. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – They give me lithium and wellbutrin. Lithium makes you feel stupid and nauseuas and slow. Hmmmm It doesn’t do that to everyone. Lithium induces slight or subclinical hypothyroidism in many users; however, Lithium induces SEVERE hypothyroidism in approx. 10% of all users. http://www.psychiatrictimes.com/p020156.html The Complex Interrelationship of Lithium and the Thyroid By Patrick Oakley, B.Med., FRACP Psychiatric Times January 2002 Vol. XIX Issue 1 "Lazarus listed impaired thyroidal uptake of iodine, impaired iodination of tyrosine, altered thyroglobulin structure and impaired release of thyroxine from the thyroid gland as the mechanisms by which lithium induces hypothyroidism." http://thyroid.about.com/ Hypothyroidism or low thyroid symptoms of thyroid problems include: . Fatigue and weakness . Depression . Weight gain . Low basal temperature, cold intolerance, cold hands and feet . Dry and coarse skin . Heavy menstrual periods . Insomnia . High cholesterol . Sluggish bowels, constipation . Poor memory, forgetfulness, DEMENTIA . Nervousness and tremors . Immune system problems . Hair loss But the WB keeps me awake, if impaired. Thanks Sue. They serve real coffee, have selectable food menues, much better snacks, and yes, the staff is NICER ~ ! They place is far prettier, and I get 10 mind/day of web access. But I liked the Bellevue docs better, even if they DID misdiagnose me. Oh? Well, I knew that; and, am sooooooo glad for your sake that the pdoc’s at Cornell realized it. Have you been Rx’d an AD? If so, which one? What’s your prognosis? Will you have to remain an in-patient for an extended period—or, just a few weeks? Also, has a social worker been assigned your case—to help you navigate the social services *system* so you will enuff $$ for basic needs? I’m so relieved you are getting some REAL help! ((((Virginia)))))
Response:
Yes, sounds about right.
Lithium is often augmented with synthetic thyroid hormone. Discuss the possibility Lithium is impairing your thyroid function and you may need thyroid replacement hormone..with your physicians. Lithium doesn’t normally make people *stupid*, etc. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – They give me lithium and wellbutrin. Lithium makes you feel stupid and nauseuas and slow. Hmmmm It doesn’t do that to everyone. Lithium induces slight or subclinical hypothyroidism in many users; however, Lithium induces SEVERE hypothyroidism in approx. 10% of all users. http://www.psychiatrictimes.com/p020156.html The Complex Interrelationship of Lithium and the Thyroid By Patrick Oakley, B.Med., FRACP Psychiatric Times January 2002 Vol. XIX Issue 1 "Lazarus listed impaired thyroidal uptake of iodine, impaired iodination of tyrosine, altered thyroglobulin structure and impaired release of thyroxine from the thyroid gland as the mechanisms by which lithium induces hypothyroidism." http://thyroid.about.com/ Hypothyroidism or low thyroid symptoms of thyroid problems include: . Fatigue and weakness . Depression . Weight gain . Low basal temperature, cold intolerance, cold hands and feet . Dry and coarse skin . Heavy menstrual periods . Insomnia . High cholesterol . Sluggish bowels, constipation . Poor memory, forgetfulness, DEMENTIA . Nervousness and tremors . Immune system problems . Hair loss But the WB keeps me awake, if impaired. Thanks Sue. They serve real coffee, have selectable food menues, much better snacks, and yes, the staff is NICER ~ ! They place is far prettier, and I get 10 mind/day of web access. But I liked the Bellevue docs better, even if they DID misdiagnose me. Oh? Well, I knew that; and, am sooooooo glad for your sake that the pdoc’s at Cornell realized it. Have you been Rx’d an AD? If so, which one? What’s your prognosis? Will you have to remain an in-patient for an extended period—or, just a few weeks? Also, has a social worker been assigned your case—to help you navigate the social services *system* so you will enuff $$ for basic needs? I’m so relieved you are getting some REAL help! ((((Virginia)))))
Response:
I worry about Twittering One … We worry about our loved ones, when they are in trouble.
Hello. do I know you, stranger? You are so very kind to me, here. You know me well. … … in a deeply, personal sense. Y Cordially, rl – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am concerned that those who are taking care of her will come to realize and accept that T1, just has plain, ordinary AD(H)D. I am worried that they will come to the conclusion that there isn’t very much which they can do for her because of this. … I am worried that both sides will end up feeling frustrated and despondent because of the ineffectualness of "such". From my own limited ‘ experience’; mental health care facilities; just aren’t set up to deal with AD(H)D. It confuses them, deeply. … Some are confused, yes. Some are annoyed that stimulants interact with normal methods to treat normal depression or normal psychosis. But some understand and care. I am very worried that Twittering One just has AD(H)D for real. Yes, Attention Deficit Disorder. But there is another aspect to this. We all need attention, real attention, from people who really care. That attention deficit may be more important to Twittering One than the one that can be treated with medications. Reality will speak for itself. It will be hard to ignore. At least, I have that much "faith & respect" in my own MHP’s. I "do" trust them inherently. God help those who ‘ don’t respect ‘ someone with AD(H)D. There will be "Hell" to pay, I PROMISE YOU. Yes, you are angry. A very concerned, RL P.S. " Tortises all the way down * ( B. Russell ? ) "Turtles all the way down" refers to a infinite regression belief about the nature of the universe (see Cosmology). See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turtles_all_the_way_down Perhaps, most believe that RL is a heavily FUBARed twit. ( ! or & or ‘ period ‘ ) What anyone might think of me, MY OWN REALITY IS LIKE THUS: It’s " Prisoner’s Dilemma ", all the way down … It’s " Prisoner’s Dilemma ", all the way down … It’s " Prisoner’s Dilemma ", all the way down … It’s " Prisoner’s Dilemma ", all the way down … It’s " Prisoner’s Dilemma ", all the way down … It’s " Prisoner’s Dilemma ", all the way down … It’s " Prisoner’s Dilemma ", all the way down … It’s " Prisoner’s Dilemma ", all the way down … It’s " Prisoner’s Dilemma ", all the way down … It’s " Prisoner’s Dilemma ", all the way down … It’s " Prisoner’s Dilemma ", all the way down … It’s " Prisoner’s Dilemma ", all the way down … only if you make youself a prisoner… See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prisoner’s_dilemma IMO, T1 is in deep shit and won’t get luck. Damn it. you are her luck We both need help. help yourself I am dead. … I’m just a stupid, crazy, fuck. I no longer care. I shall go beserk. Need a lawyer, T1? See below: ‘ as an Officer of the Court. Once he knew for certain that Fleming was guilty, he was OBLIGATED to report that fact to the court. If he had dropped the case and it could be proved later that he knew about Fleming’s guilt but hadn’t taken this whistle blowing action, he was disbarment bait. … ‘ Or …. I freely admit that the stimulants which I use can throw me strongly into a severe OCD state. Of and by itself; if that is all that there is considered … it isn’t a good idea. It is easy to forget that this severe OCD ‘tight-assed’ lock up is NOT the whole story. Rather, it is an end state. … a stable critical point … a pit that one falls into and stays in. What is *MOST SIGNIFICANT* and forgotten is the bigger picture of "how" a person ARRIVED and "what" needs to be done to DEPART the paralyzed morass. This ‘falling’ into a severe OCD condition … and ESCAPING from the "same" is the essential key. Stimulants are very likely to create this problem !!!!! (This *POSTING* is a very important NODE. .. It’s worth coming back at it; again and again. I shall do so. ) Why do I take stimulants? I often ask myself that same question. I only use them since two years but something makes me think I need them. Yes they work well, but… Oh. It’s to become more like my dear wife. ( who IMO is OCD ) … It is to be less ADD and more neutral. … Amazing, eh. Sounds like a loving husband. If only you were not maried, you would saddle your white stallion and rescue Twittering One and let her become the love of your life. But that is impossible… …good plot. Hey everyone ! I am drunk. I don’t care any more. So, you knocked yourself out.
‘ Dutch Courage ‘ isn’t all bad. There are some qualities (about it) that can be admired, eh. I am, useless .. I wish that I wasn’t Everything is irrelevent for me, now. and you are useless once again… Great dramatic potential!
P O T E N T I A L sucks like a squeezed lemon. (forget the drama and go write yourself a happy ending, whatever that may be) <!– greetz frenzy ;- ;- :- :–
another raving loonie. … can it be?
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I wish I had time to read. But my 10 min almost gone.
It’s nice you have some time. Hope they are treating you well. Linda
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Thanks Sue. They serve real coffee, have selectable food menues, much better snacks, and yes, the staff is NICER ~ ! They place is far prettier, and I get 10 mind/day of web access. But I liked the Bellevue docs better, even if they DID misdiagnose me. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I wish I had time to read. But my 10 min almost gone. It’s nice you have some time. Hope they are treating you well. Linda
Response:
I wish I had time to read. But my 10 min almost gone. Be worried. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I worry about Twittering One … I am concerned that those who are taking care of her will come to realize and accept that T1, just has plain, ordinary AD(H)D. I am worried that they will come to the conclusion that there isn’t very much which they can do for her because of this. … I am worried that both sides will end up feeling frustrated and despondent because of the ineffectualness of "such". From my own limited ‘ experience’; mental health care facilities; just aren’t set up to deal with AD(H)D. It confuses them, deeply. … I am very worried that Twittering One just has AD(H)D for real. Reality will speak for itself. It will be hard to ignore. At least, I have that much "faith & respect" in my own MHP’s. I "do" trust them inherently. God help those who ‘ don’t respect ‘ someone with AD(H)D. There will be "Hell" to pay, I PROMISE YOU. A very concerned, RL P.S. " Tortises all the way down * ( B. Russell ? ) "Turtles all the way down" refers to a infinite regression belief about the nature of the universe (see Cosmology). See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turtles_all_the_way_down Perhaps, most believe that RL is a heavily FUBARed twit. ( ! or & or ‘ period ‘ ) What anyone might think of me, MY OWN REALITY IS LIKE THUS: It’s " Prisoner’s Dilemma ", all the way down … It’s " Prisoner’s Dilemma ", all the way down … It’s " Prisoner’s Dilemma ", all the way down … It’s " Prisoner’s Dilemma ", all the way down … It’s " Prisoner’s Dilemma ", all the way down … It’s " Prisoner’s Dilemma ", all the way down … It’s " Prisoner’s Dilemma ", all the way down … It’s " Prisoner’s Dilemma ", all the way down … It’s " Prisoner’s Dilemma ", all the way down … It’s " Prisoner’s Dilemma ", all the way down … It’s " Prisoner’s Dilemma ", all the way down … It’s " Prisoner’s Dilemma ", all the way down … See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prisoner’s_dilemma IMO, T1 is in deep shit and won’t get luck. Damn it. We both need help. I am dead. … I’m just a stupid, crazy, fuck. I no longer care. I shall go beserk. Need a lawyer, T1? See below: ‘ as an Officer of the Court. Once he knew for certain that Fleming was guilty, he was OBLIGATED to report that fact to the court. If he had dropped the case and it could be proved later that he knew about Fleming’s guilt but hadn’t taken this whistle blowing action, he was disbarment bait. … ‘ Or …. I freely admit that the stimulants which I use can throw me strongly into a severe OCD state. Of and by itself; if that is all that there is considered … it isn’t a good idea. It is easy to forget that this severe OCD ‘tight-assed’ lock up is NOT the whole story. Rather, it is an end state. … a stable critical point … a pit that one falls into and stays in. What is *MOST SIGNIFICANT* and forgotten is the bigger picture of "how" a person ARRIVED and "what" needs to be done to DEPART the paralyzed morass. This ‘falling’ into a severe OCD condition … and ESCAPING from the "same" is the essential key. Stimulants are very likely to create this problem !!!!! (This *POSTING* is a very important NODE. .. It’s worth coming back at it; again and again. I shall do so. ) Why do I take stimulants? Oh. It’s to become more like my dear wife. ( who IMO is OCD ) … It is to be less ADD and more neutral. … Amazing, eh. Hey everyone ! I am drunk. I don’t care any more. I am, useless .. I wish that I wasn’t Everything is irrelevent for me, now. As my ex shrink-a-dink said …. FOAD, RL. O.K shrink-a-dink. Yes sir. IMDb user comments for …And Justice for All (1979) I doubt you will ever see as thorough an indictment of the American legal system as you are brought in the film And Justice For All. Too often the object of that legal system has been terribly lost in the process. This film has become my favorite Al Pacino role. I don’t think he was ever better on the screen as Arthur Kirkland, an attorney who cares maybe too much for his clients both for his career and his own mental health. During the course of And Justice For All, Pacino has two clients who for reasons I won’t go into here, do not get their proper day in court and both stories end tragically. The clients are Robert Christian as the cross dressing Ralph Agee and Thomas G. Waites as Jeff McCullaugh and both players give stunning performances. The hardest audience heart out there will feel their pain. Their stories are mixed in with Pacino’s running feud with a malevolent judge played by John Forsythe. John Forsythe in this film is not the John Forsythe of Dynasty or Bachelor Father or the disembodied employer of three shapely female private eyes. As it turns out this law and order judge thinks he’s quite above the law. And he involves Pacino in his effort to prove his innocence after he’s accused of rape. Life does have a funny way of imitating art and later on the New York State Chief Judge of the Court of Appeals, Sol Wachtler, was brought down in a similar scandal to what Forsythe is accused of here. Jack Warden is another judge operating out of that same Baltimore courthouse that Forsythe does. He’s quite a whack job himself, sitting on a window ledge eating his lunch, wearing a concealed revolver under his judicial robes. It’s a crime for the rest of us to do that, but he’s another judge who feels himself above the law. Pacino has some very tender scenes with Lee Strassberg who plays his grandfather and Sam Levene who is Strassberg’s friend at the nursing home they reside it. They’re all such good players that you don’t even think while you’re watching them that this is a reunion of Michael Corleone and Hyman Roth. His scenes with them are his link to a world beyond his chosen profession. The tragedy of And Justice For All is not so much the personal tragedies of Christian and Waites, bad as they are. It is the arrogant abuse of the rules and procedures of our legal system by the very men who are a bound by it as Pacino is. Pacino finds himself so boxed in that the only way he can see justice done is blow up his own career in a now legendary courtroom climax scene. In the post Watergate Era, And Justice For All found its audience. And its message is still a timely one. Was the above comment useful to you? 2 out of 2 people found the following comment useful :- Much more than a comedy, 14 December 2004 9/10 Author: saul-22 from Montreal, Canada This is not a review: ‘And Justice for all’ has been reviewed to death here below: as comedy; as a tour-de- force acting performance by Al Pacino; as an entertainment and as a musical showcase. I was hugely entertained by this movie but in a different way. This is a personal evaluation of a landmark movie directed by Norman Jewison and written by Barry Levinson & Valarie Curtin. The film reflected the rage that many felt against the failed Criminal-Justice system of 25-yrs ago. Since then, Judges have been reigned in somewhat, and DNA technology has freed thousands, many even from death row. What still persists is law-enforcement’s inability to admit a mistake. Officialdom will move heaven and earth to stand firm on any previous decision; as if to admit error would undermine the legal edifice and bring the law into disrespect. The opposite is true of course. The whole world knows that mistakes are made in adjudicating the relations between people and if law enforcement could admit this fact with grace, the whole legal system would run more smoothly, in fact an order of magnitude smoother and more efficiently. And thus the rage. I would like to start at the end. With titles running, Arthur Kirkland, Baltimore lawyer, is sitting, bewildered and despairing on the steps of the Baltimore Court House; he has just blown the career he loved. His rage at the phony and corrupt criminal-justice system has led him to betray the client he was sworn to defend and he will surely be disbarred. The trial he has been ejected from will certainly be declared a mistrial and a vicious criminal may go free. The affair he was having with Gail Packer, a thing of the past. The writers had no doubt about the story they were telling. It’s a story about justice denied to all but those who can get the best legal representation and that means money. It is a story of a system where judges have become so arrogant and crazed by their own power of life or death that they have lost all contact with the world around them. Without a modicum of respect for the rights of those that come before them for justice, sometimes carelessly and sometimes with malice they meddle heedlessly in peoples lives causing havoc and dismay. The plea-bargaining system also comes in for its share of bashing. In the lobbies and antechambers of the CourtHouse we see lawyers and prosecutors haggling over the penalties to be meted out in exchange for a guilty plea. These are almost biblical scenes of temple desecration. Judge Henry T. Fleming played by John Forsyth is the metaphor for evil in this movie. His aloofness and arrogance and his repetition
… read more »
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I worry about Twittering One … We worry about our loved ones, when they are in trouble. Hello. do I know you, stranger? No, you don’t. I’ve been reading ASAD for some time without posting, you know, english being my second language and so. You are so very kind to me, here. You know me well. … … in a deeply, personal sense. I don’t really know you that well, but you express yourself in a deeply personal way. I respond to what you are writing. I can relate many things you tell and recognize what you feeling. – My wife and I don’t make eachother happy, but its not bad enough to break up 
– And the meds, they make life better, in a way, maybe… ridiculous how important they have become for me! remind me of the ring in "lord of the rings" but it’s not quite the same. – Getting in those negative spirals… Usually people tell each other what is not good about the other, but I have learnt that telling the good things is nice, empowering and it is the truth. All those negative judgements beginning to cascade make ye depressed. Gotta break out by looking at good things. I have this diary in which I write down only good things and I try to find at least one each day. Just to train myself in noticing and formulating positive things. When I started it I thought the result would be boring, but is nice to read back. Hey everyone ! I am drunk. I don’t care any more. So, you knocked yourself out. ‘ Dutch Courage ‘ isn’t all bad. There are some qualities (about it) that can be admired, eh. LOL I am Dutch (maybe I get drunk later) I am, useless .. I wish that I wasn’t Everything is irrelevent for me, now. and you are useless once again… Great dramatic potential! P O T E N T I A L sucks like a squeezed lemon. You would be surprised how much taxes can squeeze out of a squeezed lemon. (forget the drama and go write yourself a happy ending, whatever that may be) <!– greetz frenzy ;- ;- :- :– another raving loonie. … can it be? there is only one of you, that is exactly enough. but the name is a funny coincidence. <!– greetz frenzy ;- ;- :- :–
Your words are very kind and flattering. You understand. Carrying on forward, isn’t easy for me. I don’t know what is going to happen. … I don’t know what I shall do. Frustration is not good for the soul. It has worn me down, raw. Cordially, RL
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Shit happens and then we die.
Whether or not we have ADHD. — Ann e-mail address is not checked
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I worry about Twittering One … We worry about our loved ones, when they are in trouble. Hello. do I know you, stranger?
No, you don’t. I’ve been reading ASAD for some time without posting, you know, english being my second language and so. You are so very kind to me, here. You know me well. … … in a deeply, personal sense.
I don’t really know you that well, but you express yourself in a deeply personal way. I respond to what you are writing. I can relate many things you tell and recognize what you feeling. – My wife and I don’t make eachother happy, but its not bad enough to break up – And the meds, they make life better, in a way, maybe… ridiculous how important they have become for me! remind me of the ring in "lord of the rings" but it’s not quite the same. – Getting in those negative spirals… Usually people tell each other what is not good about the other, but I have learnt that telling the good things is nice, empowering and it is the truth. All those negative judgements beginning to cascade make ye depressed. Gotta break out by looking at good things. I have this diary in which I write down only good things and I try to find at least one each day. Just to train myself in noticing and formulating positive things. When I started it I thought the result would be boring, but is nice to read back. Hey everyone ! I am drunk. I don’t care any more. So, you knocked yourself out. ‘ Dutch Courage ‘ isn’t all bad. There are some qualities (about it) that can be admired, eh.
LOL I am Dutch (maybe I get drunk later) I am, useless .. I wish that I wasn’t Everything is irrelevent for me, now. and you are useless once again… Great dramatic potential! P O T E N T I A L sucks like a squeezed lemon.
You would be surprised how much taxes can squeeze out of a squeezed lemon. (forget the drama and go write yourself a happy ending, whatever that may be) <!– greetz frenzy ;- ;- :- :– another raving loonie. … can it be?
there is only one of you, that is exactly enough. but the name is a funny coincidence. <!– greetz frenzy ;- ;- :- :–
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I worry about Twittering One … God help those with ADD …. As of 2006 A.D. ; ‘that’ is more or less the state of the art.
We all need God’s help, don’t we?
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I worry about Twittering One …
We worry about our loved ones, when they are in trouble. I am concerned that those who are taking care of her will come to realize and accept that T1, just has plain, ordinary AD(H)D. I am worried that they will come to the conclusion that there isn’t very much which they can do for her because of this. … I am worried that both sides will end up feeling frustrated and despondent because of the ineffectualness of "such". From my own limited ‘ experience’; mental health care facilities; just aren’t set up to deal with AD(H)D. It confuses them, deeply. …
Some are confused, yes. Some are annoyed that stimulants interact with normal methods to treat normal depression or normal psychosis. But some understand and care. I am very worried that Twittering One just has AD(H)D for real.
Yes, Attention Deficit Disorder. But there is another aspect to this. We all need attention, real attention, from people who really care. That attention deficit may be more important to Twittering One than the one that can be treated with medications. Reality will speak for itself. It will be hard to ignore. At least, I have that much "faith & respect" in my own MHP’s. I "do" trust them inherently. God help those who ‘ don’t respect ‘ someone with AD(H)D. There will be "Hell" to pay, I PROMISE YOU.
Yes, you are angry. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – A very concerned, RL P.S. " Tortises all the way down * ( B. Russell ? ) "Turtles all the way down" refers to a infinite regression belief about the nature of the universe (see Cosmology). See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turtles_all_the_way_down Perhaps, most believe that RL is a heavily FUBARed twit. ( ! or & or ‘ period ‘ ) What anyone might think of me, MY OWN REALITY IS LIKE THUS: It’s " Prisoner’s Dilemma ", all the way down … It’s " Prisoner’s Dilemma ", all the way down … It’s " Prisoner’s Dilemma ", all the way down … It’s " Prisoner’s Dilemma ", all the way down … It’s " Prisoner’s Dilemma ", all the way down … It’s " Prisoner’s Dilemma ", all the way down … It’s " Prisoner’s Dilemma ", all the way down … It’s " Prisoner’s Dilemma ", all the way down … It’s " Prisoner’s Dilemma ", all the way down … It’s " Prisoner’s Dilemma ", all the way down … It’s " Prisoner’s Dilemma ", all the way down … It’s " Prisoner’s Dilemma ", all the way down …
only if you make youself a prisoner… See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prisoner’s_dilemma IMO, T1 is in deep shit and won’t get luck. Damn it.
you are her luck We both need help.
help yourself – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am dead. … I’m just a stupid, crazy, fuck. I no longer care. I shall go beserk. Need a lawyer, T1? See below: ‘ as an Officer of the Court. Once he knew for certain that Fleming was guilty, he was OBLIGATED to report that fact to the court. If he had dropped the case and it could be proved later that he knew about Fleming’s guilt but hadn’t taken this whistle blowing action, he was disbarment bait. … ‘ Or …. I freely admit that the stimulants which I use can throw me strongly into a severe OCD state. Of and by itself; if that is all that there is considered … it isn’t a good idea. It is easy to forget that this severe OCD ‘tight-assed’ lock up is NOT the whole story. Rather, it is an end state. … a stable critical point … a pit that one falls into and stays in. What is *MOST SIGNIFICANT* and forgotten is the bigger picture of "how" a person ARRIVED and "what" needs to be done to DEPART the paralyzed morass. This ‘falling’ into a severe OCD condition … and ESCAPING from the "same" is the essential key. Stimulants are very likely to create this problem !!!!! (This *POSTING* is a very important NODE. .. It’s worth coming back at it; again and again. I shall do so. ) Why do I take stimulants?
I often ask myself that same question. I only use them since two years but something makes me think I need them. Yes they work well, but… Oh. It’s to become more like my dear wife. ( who IMO is OCD ) … It is to be less ADD and more neutral. … Amazing, eh.
Sounds like a loving husband. If only you were not maried, you would saddle your white stallion and rescue Twittering One and let her become the love of your life. But that is impossible… …good plot. Hey everyone ! I am drunk. I don’t care any more.
So, you knocked yourself out. I am, useless .. I wish that I wasn’t Everything is irrelevent for me, now.
and you are useless once again… Great dramatic potential! (forget the drama and go write yourself a happy ending, whatever that may be) <!– greetz frenzy ;- ;- :- :–
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I worry about Twittering One …
God help those with ADD …. As of 2006 A.D. ; ‘that’ is more or less the state of the art. Shit happens and then we die. The End.
Response:
I worry about Twittering One … I am concerned that those who are taking care of her will come to realize and accept that T1, just has plain, ordinary AD(H)D. I am worried that they will come to the conclusion that there isn’t very much which they can do for her because of this. … I am worried that both sides will end up feeling frustrated and despondent because of the ineffectualness of "such". From my own limited ‘ experience’; mental health care facilities; just
aren’t set up to deal with AD(H)D. It confuses them, deeply. … I am very worried that Twittering One just has AD(H)D for real. Reality will speak for itself. It will be hard to ignore. At least, I have that much "faith & respect" in my own MHP’s. I "do" trust them inherently. God help those who ‘ don’t respect ‘ someone with AD(H)D. There will be "Hell" to pay, I PROMISE YOU. A very concerned, RL P.S. " Tortises all the way down * ( B. Russell ? ) "Turtles all the way down" refers to a infinite regression belief about the nature of the universe (see Cosmology). See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turtles_all_the_way_down Perhaps, most believe that RL is a heavily FUBARed twit. ( ! or & or ‘ period ‘ ) What anyone might think of me, MY OWN REALITY IS LIKE THUS: It’s " Prisoner’s Dilemma ", all the way down … It’s " Prisoner’s Dilemma ", all the way down … It’s " Prisoner’s Dilemma ", all the way down … It’s " Prisoner’s Dilemma ", all the way down … It’s " Prisoner’s Dilemma ", all the way down … It’s " Prisoner’s Dilemma ", all the way down … It’s " Prisoner’s Dilemma ", all the way down … It’s " Prisoner’s Dilemma ", all the way down … It’s " Prisoner’s Dilemma ", all the way down … It’s " Prisoner’s Dilemma ", all the way down … It’s " Prisoner’s Dilemma ", all the way down … It’s " Prisoner’s Dilemma ", all the way down … See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prisoner’s_dilemma IMO, T1 is in deep shit and won’t get luck. Damn it. We both need help. I am dead. … I’m just a stupid, crazy, fuck. I no longer care. I shall go beserk. Need a lawyer, T1? See below: ‘ as an Officer of the Court. Once he knew for certain that Fleming was guilty, he was OBLIGATED to report that fact to the court. If he had dropped the case and it could be proved later that he knew about Fleming’s guilt but hadn’t taken this whistle blowing action, he was disbarment bait. … ‘ Or …. I freely admit that the stimulants which I use can throw me strongly into a severe OCD state. Of and by itself; if that is all that there is considered … it isn’t a good idea. It is easy to forget that this severe OCD ‘tight-assed’ lock up is NOT the whole story. Rather, it is an end state. … a stable critical point … a pit that one falls into and stays in. What is *MOST SIGNIFICANT* and forgotten is the bigger picture of "how" a person ARRIVED and "what" needs to be done to DEPART the paralyzed morass. This ‘falling’ into a severe OCD condition … and ESCAPING from the "same" is the essential key. Stimulants are very likely to create this problem !!!!! (This *POSTING* is a very important NODE. .. It’s worth coming back at it; again and again. I shall do so. ) Why do I take stimulants? Oh. It’s to become more like my dear wife. ( who IMO is OCD ) … It is to be less ADD and more neutral. … Amazing, eh. Hey everyone ! I am drunk. I don’t care any more. I am, useless .. I wish that I wasn’t Everything is irrelevent for me, now. As my ex shrink-a-dink said …. FOAD, RL. O.K shrink-a-dink. Yes sir. IMDb user comments for …And Justice for All (1979) I doubt you will ever see as thorough an indictment of the American legal system as you are brought in the film And Justice For All. Too often the object of that legal system has been terribly lost in the process. This film has become my favorite Al Pacino role. I don’t think he was ever better on the screen as Arthur Kirkland, an attorney who cares maybe too much for his clients both for his career and his own mental health. During the course of And Justice For All, Pacino has two clients who for reasons I won’t go into here, do not get their proper day in court and both stories end tragically. The clients are Robert Christian as the cross dressing Ralph Agee and Thomas G. Waites as Jeff McCullaugh and both players give stunning performances. The hardest audience heart out there will feel their pain. Their stories are mixed in with Pacino’s running feud with a malevolent judge played by John Forsythe. John Forsythe in this film is not the John Forsythe of Dynasty or Bachelor Father or the disembodied employer of three shapely female private eyes. As it turns out this law and order judge thinks he’s quite above the law. And he involves Pacino in his effort to prove his innocence after he’s accused of rape. Life does have a funny way of imitating art and later on the New York State Chief Judge of the Court of Appeals, Sol Wachtler, was brought down in a similar scandal to what Forsythe is accused of here. Jack Warden is another judge operating out of that same Baltimore courthouse that Forsythe does. He’s quite a whack job himself, sitting on a window ledge eating his lunch, wearing a concealed revolver under his judicial robes. It’s a crime for the rest of us to do that, but he’s another judge who feels himself above the law. Pacino has some very tender scenes with Lee Strassberg who plays his grandfather and Sam Levene who is Strassberg’s friend at the nursing home they reside it. They’re all such good players that you don’t even think while you’re watching them that this is a reunion of Michael Corleone and Hyman Roth. His scenes with them are his link to a world beyond his chosen profession. The tragedy of And Justice For All is not so much the personal tragedies of Christian and Waites, bad as they are. It is the arrogant abuse of the rules and procedures of our legal system by the very men who are a bound by it as Pacino is. Pacino finds himself so boxed in that the only way he can see justice done is blow up his own career in a now legendary courtroom climax scene. In the post Watergate Era, And Justice For All found its audience. And its message is still a timely one. Was the above comment useful to you? 2 out of 2 people found the following comment useful :- Much more than a comedy, 14 December 2004 9/10 Author: saul-22 from Montreal, Canada This is not a review: ‘And Justice for all’ has been reviewed to death here below: as comedy; as a tour-de- force acting performance by Al Pacino; as an entertainment and as a musical showcase. I was hugely entertained by this movie but in a different way. This is a personal evaluation of a landmark movie directed by Norman Jewison and written by Barry Levinson & Valarie Curtin. The film reflected the rage that many felt against the failed Criminal-Justice system of 25-yrs ago. Since then, Judges have been reigned in somewhat, and DNA technology has freed thousands, many even from death row. What still persists is law-enforcement’s inability to admit a mistake. Officialdom will move heaven and earth to stand firm on any previous decision; as if to admit error would undermine the legal edifice and bring the law into disrespect. The opposite is true of course. The whole world knows that mistakes are made in adjudicating the relations between people and if law enforcement could admit this fact with grace, the whole legal system would run more smoothly, in fact an order of magnitude smoother and more efficiently. And thus the rage. I would like to start at the end. With titles running, Arthur Kirkland, Baltimore lawyer, is sitting, bewildered and despairing on the steps of the Baltimore Court House; he has just blown the career he loved. His rage at the phony and corrupt criminal-justice system has led him to betray the client he was sworn to defend and he will surely be disbarred. The trial he has been ejected from will certainly be declared a mistrial and a vicious criminal may go free. The affair he was having with Gail Packer, a thing of the past. The writers had no doubt about the story they were telling. It’s a story about justice denied to all but those who can get the best legal representation and that means money. It is a story of a system where judges have become so arrogant and crazed by their own power of life or death that they have lost all contact with the world around them. Without a modicum of respect for the rights of those that come before them for justice, sometimes carelessly and sometimes with malice they meddle heedlessly in peoples lives causing havoc and dismay. The plea-bargaining system also comes in for its share of bashing. In the lobbies and antechambers of the CourtHouse we see lawyers and prosecutors haggling over the penalties to be meted out in exchange for a guilty plea. These are almost biblical scenes of temple desecration. Judge Henry T. Fleming played by John Forsyth is the metaphor for evil in this movie. His aloofness and arrogance and his repetition of the words ‘I don’t care’ convey the awesomeness of his depravity. He really doesn’t care about the people who come before him or their lawyers or the rest of the World for that matter. In this he is the distilled essence of evil. As the story evolves we realize that this man is more criminal than those who appear before him and all ironies are complete. In the penultimate scene, the ‘You are out of order’ scene; Judge Fleming, accused rapist, and Kirkland’s client gazes sternly and … read more »
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Question:
Elsewhere, you wrote … Not only does she not tell the whole story, she pushes away the people in real life who try to help her, as I’ve been told by several of her relatives I’ve reached out to. There’s nothing we can do for Virginia, she has to do it herself. My intuition is that Virginia would agree with you …
You are obviously misinterpreting everything that’s gone on with T1. She *will not* accept help or suggestions. She wouldn’t agree with me on a bet, she’s disagreed many, many times. You can’t help … The problem and it’s resolutiuon reside elsewhere … This is how I interpret T1’s, declining assistance.
Very incorrect interpretation. People who are constantly looking for others to solve their problems (even people on the internet) and ignoring any suggestions are not interested in solving their problems themselves. Virginia ain’t dumb and she knows the score. And I hope that God gives her the strength, courage and forthrightness of mind to help her get through this crap
She’d have to listen to him first. — Ann e-mail address is not checked
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You are obviously misinterpreting everything that’s gone on with T1. She *will not* accept help or suggestions. She wouldn’t agree with me on a bet, she’s disagreed many, many times.
Uhmm … Perhaps Twittering One is trying to say … http://www.intriguing.com/mp/_sounds/ml/livelife.wav The response that she receives is ubiquitous. See below: … – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Very incorrect interpretation. People who are constantly looking for others to solve their problems (even people on the internet) and ignoring any suggestions are not interested in solving their problems themselves. [snip... ] — Ann e-mail address is not checked
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3. I know several diligent and thoughtful people have gone to great lengths to try to help Virginia. She doesn’t tell the whole story. Not only does she not tell the whole story, she pushes away the people in real life who try to help her, as I’ve been told by several of her relatives I’ve reached out to. There’s nothing we can do for Virginia, she has to do it herself.
… a) A host of theories of the origin of BPD, none with substantial empirical support; b) A profound stigma associated with BPD, not only among the families and clinicians, but also among those who paid for care; c) A sense of anger and frustration directed at the victims – those with BPD – for not responding to our interventions, for not getting better; d) A sense of cynicism among many clinicians, the recipients of care, and their families." … THIS DOES NOT WELL! … Scares the shit out of me. See below for fuller text. Borderline Personality Disorder "The Journal of the California Alliance for the Mentally Ill" Excerpts about Borderline Personality Disorder by Joel A. Dvoskin, Ph.D., A.B.P.P. "…Axis II is a horrible thing to be. Though DSM IV lists along Axis II a variety of personality disorders, people who are so described are treated as if their disruptive and self-destructive acts are simply evidence of moral weakness, dishonor, and perhaps evil. For example, people diagnosed with Borderline Personality Disorder are often pejoratively called ‘manipulative.’ Manipulation, often, is listed on treatment plans as a problem or symptom, and patients are insulted and punished when their behavior is so described. Yet, no matter how often punished , how seldom rewarded, the behavior continues. With almost religious fervor, we clung to our ridiculous notion that ruining one’s own life was somehow a scam; that our miserable, meager, and often mean-spirited attention was a sufficient reward to overwhelm the punitive and tortuous effects of these so-called manipulative behaviors. And why? Because, if we were to attribute these behaviors to mental disability, then we are the failures. On the other hand, if we call it free will, the fault is theirs. Why would psychiatry and psychology turn so viciously against a group of people they call mentally disordered? Apparently, the greatest sin a patient or client can commit is the sin of poor response to treatment. What is apparently so wrong about these unfortunate souls is that they have yet to demonstrate the ability to get better in response to our treatment. Thus, they don’t make us feel very good…With a few notable exceptions, we have given up on helping people who desperately need us to do a better job of helping them. When people cut themselves, we dismiss this behavior as manipulation. We dismiss their despair and say that they did it for our attention: "It is the only way I can feel calm." Our dichotomous scientific minds lead us to see things as either willful or the result of disability. I suspect a middle ground, where people with precious few alternatives for feeling better choose one that we find offensive. Like all of us, they learn to cope the best way they can… Axis II diagnoses, when misused, can cost them voice, history, competence and hope: Voice – we don’t listen to or believe them, which makes them less honest. History – we see their problems as current moral weakness, not the scabs of old wounds; so instead of healing, they do wrong. Competence – we label their coping behaviors as weak, instead of resourceful, and they quit trying. Hope – we truly don’t believe they can heal, and they get worse. by Robert L. Trestman, PhD., M.D. "…While the severity of the disorder’s symptoms and impairment of function was at any given time equal to that of the schizophrenias or bipolar disorders, it was also clear that there were profound differences in these populations and in the interventions needed. Indeed, one of the few consistencies about BPD seemed to be its apparent inconsistency. …At the core stood our inability to understand the problem or to effectively help those suffering with BPD to address it. Following from this core were: a) A host of theories of the origin of BPD, none with substantial empirical support; b) A profound stigma associated with BPD, not only among the families and clinicians, but also among those who paid for care; c) A sense of anger and frustration directed at the victims – those with BPD – for not responding to our interventions, for not getting better; d) A sense of cynicism among many clinicians, the recipients of care, and their families." by Kenneth R. Silk, M.D. "…since all these people appear so different, you can begin to appreciate why it has been very difficult to pinpoint the specific particular biological or neurotransmitter disturbance in BPD. Nonetheless, it appears it is this very variety of symptoms and reactions that biological researchers will have to deal with. Perhaps clinicians and researchers alike will need to recategorize people with BPD into subgroups… …they belong to a group, but within that group they are individuals, and unless we appreciate the individual within the group, we will not provide adequate treatment for him or her." by John M. Oldham., M.D. "…Concomitant with psychotherapy, pharmacotherapy can be quite helpful to individuals with BPD. Again, it is important to individualize the treatment planning, identifying the predominant symptomatology in a given individual to guide the choice of medications. Generally, there will be a predominance of one of three main types of symptoms: cognitive symptomatology, affective dysregulation, or lack of impulse control. Some patients may virtually always become symptomatic in the same way, e.g. by developing affective instability , or by becoming impulsive; others may alternate among the different symptomatic pictures. In either case, medication is tried that may help the symptoms predominating at the time. Antipsychotic medication (e.g. Haldol) in low doses may be helpful when the person with BPD is temporarily losing touch with reality (becoming paranoid, for example). Mood stabilizing medications (e.g. Prozac) may help when depression and mood swings predominate, and impulse stabilizing medications (e.g. Depakote, Prozac) may help minimize these behaviors. Borderline Personality Disorder is a severe and persistent mental illness. It is a bio-psycho-social disorder, one that creates enormous individual, family, and social morbidity, cost, and burden. It is becoming increasingly understood, and as a result, it can more often be successfully treated." http://www.borderlinepersonalitytoday.com/main/jourexcerpts.htm
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That the MHP’s didn’t see it with either T1 or myself is a colossal blunder.
You don’t know that they didn’t. You take too much from T1 as truth – you can’t know the truth, none of us can. — Ann e-mail address is not checked
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3. I know several diligent and thoughtful people have gone to great lengths to try to help Virginia. She doesn’t tell the whole story.
Not only does she not tell the whole story, she pushes away the people in real life who try to help her, as I’ve been told by several of her relatives I’ve reached out to. There’s nothing we can do for Virginia, she has to do it herself. — Ann e-mail address is not checked
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That the MHP’s didn’t see it with either T1 or myself is a colossal blunder. You don’t know that they didn’t. ..
But what do see is the mistake that that make … and that is inexcusable. You take too much from T1 as truth – you can’t know the truth, none of us can.
Elsewhere, you wrote … Not only does she not tell the whole story, she pushes away the people in real life who try to help her, as I’ve been told by several of her relatives I’ve reached out to. There’s nothing we can do for Virginia, she has to do it herself.
My intuition is that Virginia would agree with you … You can’t help … The problem and it’s resolutiuon reside elsewhere … This is how I interpret T1’s, declining assistance. Virginia ain’t dumb and she knows the score. And I hope that God gives her the strength, courage and forthrightness of mind to help her get through this crap.
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3. I know several diligent and thoughtful people have gone to great lengths to try to help Virginia. She doesn’t tell the whole story. Not only does she not tell the whole story, she pushes away the people in real life who try to help her, as I’ve been told by several of her relatives I’ve reached out to. There’s nothing we can do for Virginia, she has to do it herself.
Yes. …. Aren’t you just confirming that which is to be expected? ‘ … The very unfortuate reality of this personality disorder is that when they need and what they need to the most Borderlines often are compelled by impulse to push away, to sabotoge in order to protect themselves from the agony increasing that is ever present inside. ..’ http://www.google.com/url?sa=D&q=http://www.iupui.edu/~flip/textno12…. I am not saying that this is the appropriate explanation. In fact it is irrelevent. I am merely pointing out that the act of ‘pushing away’ is remarkably consistent with Virginia’s behavior. My only expertise with BPD is as a sufferer. Being unconditionally, unilaterally, irrevokably, abandoned, and rejected drives me ABSOLUTELY FUCKING INSANE. .. Thus, I redouble my efforts which results in even greater rejection and abandonment … Right? Virginia and myself are different situations .. Do the analysis … It’s not rocket science BPD may co-exist with: *ding* Post traumatic stress disorder Mood disorders Panic/anxiety disorders Substance abuse (54% of BPs also have this problem) *ding* Gender identity disorder *ding* Attention deficit disorder Eating disorders *ding* Multiple personality disorder Obsessive-compulsive disorder ( I say MPD, not because Virginia has it … Rather because of her remarkable skill and sensibility w.r.t. perspective! .. It *may* cause similar difficulties ) ‘ ….IIn Borderline Personality Disorder, like DID (MPD), there is (often) a likelihood of a trauma history: * DING * "Physical and sexual abuse, neglect, hostile conflict, and early parental loss * DING * * DING * or separation are more common in the childhood histories of those with Borderline Personality Disorder." Thus 6 to 7 big ‘ * dings * ‘ with the history before one even gets out of the starting gate, eh. I’ll skip the analysis of the 5 or more of the 9 defining criterea becauseto do so is an insufferable reminder to me of my own situation. I *think* that people would see the match. If T1’s therapists didn’t conclude that she had a BPD problem, I would already be really worried. On to the next issue … ‘ … Boundaries and BPD For the comfort and safety of the client, therapist, and other outsiders, behavioral boundaries often need to be established. These limits may affect a range of issues from details of personal and therapeutic interactions, such as length of therapy sessions; appropriate touching; number, and duration, of phone calls to prevention of assault and suicide. Setting boundaries is particularly important in the treatment of dissociative disorders since lack of boundaries is usually a part of the history of a person who has been abused. … ‘ Hello ? Any therapist/psychiatrist who didn’t heed some formulation of the above mentioned guidelines would acting in a reckess manner, IN BPD self dx’d opinion. Not unsurprisingly, "boundary issues" became the issue, perhaps? All speculation of course. Nevertheless, this is Usenet and … There should NOT have been a problem on the end of the MHP’s. It was to be expected, right? There is no excuse for what happened. Why did the inexcusable happen? It’s the classic reason … The therapists lost their objectivity and became subjective. I.E. terminally deaf, dumb, and stupid. Pure ‘re-acting’. Period. I can attest to my own situation. It has happened over and over and over again to me. Totally fucking nuts and INESCAPABLE and ever worsening. And it’s the twits who are in control and are supposed to be experts and know better that are locking it up in the death spiral. … … when this happens in a BPD situation, reality goes screaming hyper insane. The boundaries go out the window ( forgotten ) … … another way of saying it is that the boundaries are used to straight jacket the patient. AND THAT IS THE WORST, WORST, WORST, WORST POSSIBLE THING TO DO WITH SOMEONE WITH BPD. It is what causes the disorder at the outset.
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The whole story? The weight of it … crushing. So alas, Byrd by bryd.
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Ownership of a computer and a room to write helps. ~ Virginia Woolf
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Example, I saw my family physician the other day and pointed out that I had a big, big BPD problem. … It never occured to him. YET, as soon as I suggested it about myself it immediately clicked. Okay, that I’ll respond to. While I still don’t have the time, energy, or interest to engage you in conversation anymore, I didn’t want to let this pass. I’m glad you’ve moved a step toward understanding yourself better. Now if you can learn to be brutally honest with yourself, you may have a chance at healing yourself with professional help. I have several other issues with you here: 1. This is true for both you and Virginia: Complaining that an attention deficit support group is not supporting you effectively for your borderline personality disorder is a little like complaining that phone company customer service is not helping you with your car trouble.
I am not complaining about ASAD. I am astonished by the MHP’s who are unable to recognize the condition when it is appropriate and seem incapable of conducting themself in a moanner commensuratre with such a situation. I am speaking ‘from’ ASAD and not ‘to’ ASAD. Please note: quoting … BPD may co-exist with: Post traumatic stress disorder Mood disorders Panic/anxiety disorders Substance abuse (54% of BPs also have this problem) Gender identity disorder Eating disorders Multiple personality disorder Obsessive-compulsive disorder http://www.borderlinepersonality.ca/bpddefined.htm Coincidentally, it would be fair to say that there are 3 current regulars to ASAD who have had or have the condition. How many more? 2. If you were violated as a child and as a result created a crazy-looking way of dealing with the world, …
Although that might be one of the reasons I have this condition, I personally do *not* think it is relevent. From http://www.iupui.edu/~flip/textno12.html
In Borderline Personality Disorder, like DID (MPD), there is a likelihood of a trauma history: "Physical and sexual abuse, neglect, hostile conflict, and early parental loss or separation are more common in the childhood histories of those with Borderline Personality Disorder." (Adapted from DSM-IV, pp. 650-654). … early parental loss feels more significant. Recent trauma seems even more significant. My ADD contition also seems very significant to the situation. Moreover, what does it matter? 3. I know several diligent and thoughtful people have gone to great lengths to try to help Virginia. She doesn’t tell the whole story. Good luck to you.
Does that matter, either? What is happening to T1 is so intensely indicateve of BPD … What can be accounted for in T1’s behavior is so thouroughly covered by the BPD syndrome symptomology; why should it make any significant doifference to the situation? Most of all …. Why MUST I BE SAYING THIS? You had the wisdom to call it as you saw it earlier. … IMO, you got it right. That the MHP’s didn’t see it with either T1 or myself is a colossal blunder. That is my point, here. I apologize if you have a problem with that and take it personally. Cordially, RL
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Example, I saw my family physician the other day and pointed out that I had a big, big BPD problem. … It never occured to him. YET, as soon as I suggested it about myself it immediately clicked.
Okay, that I’ll respond to. While I still don’t have the time, energy, or interest to engage you in conversation anymore, I didn’t want to let this pass. I’m glad you’ve moved a step toward understanding yourself better. Now if you can learn to be brutally honest with yourself, you may have a chance at healing yourself with professional help. I have several other issues with you here: 1. This is true for both you and Virginia: Complaining that an attention deficit support group is not supporting you effectively for your borderline personality disorder is a little like complaining that phone company customer service is not helping you with your car trouble. 2. If you were violated as a child and as a result created a crazy-looking way of dealing with the world, you still have to fix it yourself if you want to feel better, no matter how unfair that feels, and no matter how angry it makes you. I’ve used this metaphor before, but this is what it felt like for me: It felt like somebody had taken a dump on my kitchen floor, and I either had to clean it up myself and get on with my life, or pretend it wasn’t there, or keep screaming that somebody else should clean it up. The longer you do the latter two things, the longer you’ll be miserable. The sooner you stop fighting and start cleaning up the crap, the sooner you can start to enjoy the remainder of your life. I’m not special. If I did it, you can. Both of you. You just need to quit bitching and get down to work. 3. I know several diligent and thoughtful people have gone to great lengths to try to help Virginia. She doesn’t tell the whole story. Good luck to you.
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Hello people. Anyone home? 1) ‘ Twittering One ‘ so, so, so, so, so sorely and obviously got a BPD predicament, that even a 10 year old could "figure it out". Do I need to go through the particulars point by point? Example, I saw my family physician the other day and pointed out that I had a big, big BPD problem. … It never occured to him. YET, as soon as I suggested it about myself it immediately clicked. He said the following about BPD. BPD can be many things, brought about many different ways … ’ check ‘ … I agree. He said that in his experience/training BPD is recognized by a person who lurches from crisis to crisis to crisis … … a neverending succession of crises.. CAN IT BE POSSIBLE TO PUT A BIGGER CHECK MARK, THERE for either Twittering One or myself, eh. 2) From the ‘description’ and everything else about BPD, it is clear that it is NOT the product of some dysfunctional or diseased mind … Rather, it is very clearly and precisely a description of a PERCEPTUAL DYNAMIC ( the constantly re-entrant; BEING FOCRED upon the HORNS of a DILEMA .) This sort of perceptual boondoggle is created by a specific class/type/signature of social interaction. It can be described by hard, tangible "mathematics" ( Toplogy – Catastrophe Theory ) … nothing loosie goosie, here. It is NOT about a diseased mind. … it is about being forced in to a damaged-goods state. 3) BPD is a big, big, big ATTENTION DEFICIT DISORDER issue. Can I scream it loud enough for you, eh. 4) T’would ‘ seem’ that T1’s MHP’s failed to pick up on the BPD diagnosis < I have to shake my head in God dammed utter disbelief, here 5) Treating Twittering One with complete abandonment. … With absolute and irrevokable dismissal and disregard. … Total rejection. Is the ABSOLUTE WORST POSSIBLE THING to do her. I.E. the boundaries are shoved right up to T1’s eyeballs. Quoting again, because I doubt that the message is coming across … The depth to which most Borderlines feel their pain is for the most part not understandable to non-borderline individuals. This deep intrapsychic pain is often the pain of a traumatic childhood. Borderlines live in constant fear, terror of having to deal with real or often imagined abandonment. Attachments and bonds are very difficult for borderlines to develop because there are many control and trust issues with which they do not cope well. They have a strong need to protect themselves from any more pain which sees most borderlines basically being incapable of dealing with their own vulnerablities or the vulnerabilities and emotions of others. Borderline individuals may not seem it to the outside world around them but they are very sensitive people in a great deal of pain. The very unfortuate reality of this personality disorder is that when they need and what they need to the most Borderlines often are compelled by impulse to push away, to sabotoge in order to protect themselves from the agony increasing that is ever present inside. Borderlines, not unlike anyone often project, to a greater degree, grant it than the average. It is this projection out onto others of all that is essentially reality inside of the borderline themselves that leads them to often be so abusive to those around them. Borderlines struggle very much with image of self and identity and in so doing often have no clear defineable understanding of where they end and the next person begins. This is a boundary issue that has its roots most often in the way in which these individuals were raised. The blurring of boundaries between self and other causes the borderline to act out what is often their own self-hatred and disdain for self onto others. At times it seems as though there is an "average collective reality" in the world and then there is the reality of the Borderline Disordered individual. Disorder is the basis of this lifestyle. It is a life that for any Borderline living it, is often entrenched in chaos and marred by virtually inescapable feelings of helplessness. See http://www.iupui.edu/~flip/textno12.html ‘Think’ whatever you want … I personally KNOW Virginia’s agony. I live this reality, every day, myself. I do NOT think that Virginia is crazy. … I cry for her plight. The Raving Loonie
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We need some actual content. I’ll give it a try. Does anyone else find that, with age, meds aren’t as effective? I’m on desipramine, as I’ve been, on and off, since 1983. I’m not sure if I should p’raps try a higher dose, or if I’m already having issues complicated by said meds. Or if it could just be weight, like I actually suspect. — We are the music makers, And we are the dreamers of dreams, Wandering by lone sea-breakers, And sitting by desolate streams. from "Ode", Arthur O’Shaughnessy
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We need some actual content. I’ll give it a try. Does anyone else find that, with age, meds aren’t as effective? I’m on desipramine, as I’ve been, on and off, since 1983. I’m not sure if I should p’raps try a higher dose, or if I’m already having issues complicated by said meds. Or if it could just be weight, like I actually suspect.
I’m sorry I can’t give any input on an age or weight related effect on meds: I think I’m too young and I’m unmedicated.<eek! What’s happening, are the meds wearing off sooner or are they just not working as well? Might be time to try a different one, I think I’ve heard- er, *read* of others who needed to switch meds after some time. Good try for relevant content though! Vashti
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We need some actual content. I’ll give it a try. Does anyone else find that, with age, meds aren’t as effective? I’m on desipramine, as I’ve been, on and off, since 1983. I’m not sure if I should p’raps try a higher dose, or if I’m already having issues complicated by said meds.
I don’t know… antidepressants (like desipramine) are generally not weight dependent, but I don’t know that anyone knows what they do depend on. However, because desipramine changes the sleep cycle (per the googling I just did), age might have an effect because age also changes sleep patterns. Has your sleep changed any? (I mean, after 23 years, give or take, I’m sure your sleep has changed *some*. But has it changed relatively recently, and could that change have an effect? I know that there’s a joke that goes around now and again about "age activated attention deficit disorder". I don’t know how much "getting old" is mythological and how much of it’s based in actual physical changes… but again, over 23 years, your brain changes. I’m sure there’s an effect there, too. Herm. Interesting thing… there probably *isn’t* any data out there about aging folks with ADHD since it wasn’t all that long ago that it was considered a kid’s disease anyway. John Palmer — Everything I needed to know in life I learned in Kindergarten. Like: Beauty has a beginning, and an ending, but always lives beyond its span, in the hearts of many.
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Has your sleep changed any? (I mean, after 23 years, give or take, I’m sure your sleep has changed *some*. But has it changed relatively recently, and could that change have an effect?
Recently, yes. But it may have more to do with certain other things. For instance, I find alcohol screws up my sleep. Herm. Interesting thing… there probably *isn’t* any data out there about aging folks with ADHD since it wasn’t all that long ago that it was considered a kid’s disease anyway.
True. I think of myself as the baseline. For all I know, I might have been taking this med longer than anyone else. My current psychopharmacologist tells me I’m the only one he’s prescribing it to. All others get stimulants right now. — We are the music makers, And we are the dreamers of dreams, Wandering by lone sea-breakers, And sitting by desolate streams. from "Ode", Arthur O’Shaughnessy
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Does anyone else find that, with age, meds aren’t as effective?
No, not so far. I had to do some tweaking the first few years, but now I’ve been on the same things for several years.
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Has your sleep changed any? (I mean, after 23 years, give or take, I’m sure your sleep has changed *some*. But has it changed relatively recently, and could that change have an effect? Recently, yes. But it may have more to do with certain other things. For instance, I find alcohol screws up my sleep. Herm. Interesting thing… there probably *isn’t* any data out there about aging folks with ADHD since it wasn’t all that long ago that it was considered a kid’s disease anyway. True. I think of myself as the baseline. For all I know, I might have been taking this med longer than anyone else. My current psychopharmacologist tells me I’m the only one he’s prescribing it to. All others get stimulants right now.
live a little … Experiment. … Explore. If you haven’t done much then there is a decent chance that you *may be* pleasantly surprised by what you discover. … If you have done the been-there-done-that scene for a while, the chances of benefit are less likely … Pretty basic, eh? Cordially, RL
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This is an oldie, but goodie, and has relevant information FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS ABOUT ALT.SUPPORT.ATTN-DEFICIT 1. Introduction 2. What is Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder? 3. How is it diagnosed? 4. What is the purpose of ASAD? 5. Who’s the moderator on this board/list? 6. Why are do some of the posts seem so ANGRY? 7. I think this whole ADD thing is a bunch of baloney! Why are you all so defensive? 8. Isn’t anybody interested in talking about anything besides Ritalin here? 9. I’ve got a Great New All-Natural, Non-Drug Cure for ADD you people should try; is it okay if I just post a few messages? 10. Why is everyone so negative about non-drug alternatives? 11. What’s this stuff about "trolls?" 12. If trolls are just posting for their own amusement, why not just ignore them? 13. Why do people here react so negatively to Scientology? 14. How can I find out more about ADD? 15. Thanks to… 16. Who is Joe Parsons, anyway?? 17. Appendix Welcome to Frequently Asked Questions about alt.support.attn-deficit. It to the newsgroup. It is also available at the Unofficial ASAD Website, http://www.cyber-mall.com/asad/ Comments, corrections and suggestions are *always* welcome and encouraged. The author disclaims any responsibility for the information contained in this document, although it was believed accurate as of the time of posting. It is not to be considered an authoritative work on the diagnosis of or treatment for attention deficit hyperactivity disorder. Permission is hereby granted to republish, repost, e-mail or reproduce this document by any means, with the express condition that it be published, posted or transmitted in its entirety, with no alterations or abridgments whatsoever.
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X-No-Archive: YES Google STILL sucks. So do you.
For the right financial inducement, Twit would be happy to come over and show you how well she can suck. Kali would too but she hasn’t quite figured out how to ride a bus yet. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – HTH — Skepticult
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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Contents of This CME Activity 1. Adult ADHD: A Diagnostic Challenge by James McGough, MD, and Thomas Spencer, MD Introduction Diagnostic Criteria for ADHD A Difficult Diagnosis A Multipronged Approach Is Best Symptom and Diagnostic Rating Scales Other Rating Scales Laboratory Criteria Are Not Diagnostic The Bottom Line References 2. Comorbidities and Functional Impairments in Adult ADHD References Adult ADHD: A Diagnostic Challenge Introduction Until relatively recently, clinicians thought attention-deficit/hyperactivity disorder (ADHD) disappeared along with childhood. We now know that the disorder persists into adulthood in at least 50% of children with ADHD.[1] Diagnosis of adult ADHD is clinically based and rests on a thorough clinical interview, in conjunction with results from symptom rating scales and supplemental information about the patient’s childhood from parents or siblings.[2] Approximately 4% to 5% of adults have ADHD,[3] making it one of the most common psychiatric disorders. A correct diagnosis lays the foundation for the safe and effective treatments that now are available for adult ADHD. However, comorbidities are common, and retrospectively recalling childhood symptoms can be difficult-only a few of the reasons why diagnosing adult ADHD often is not an easy task. Diagnostic Criteria for ADHD In a classic pediatric paper published in 1957, ADHD was described as a developmental disorder, characterized by hyperactivity, that children outgrew.[4] Preliminary evidence for ADHD in adults came from a 1976 study showing that adults who had persistent ADHD symptoms since childhood responded to methylphenidate, just the way children did.[5] Later studies confirmed that ADHD symptoms persist past childhood.[6,7] The Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, Third Edition (DSM-III), published in 1980, included an attention-deficit disorder (ADD) classification for adults but described the disorder as "residual" and provided only a vague description of adult symptoms.[8] The Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, Revised Third Edition (DSM-III-R) acknowledged that signs of ADHD persisted into adulthood in about one third of children with the diagnosis, but did not code adult ADHD as a separate category.[9] The Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, Fourth Edition (DSM-IV), published in 1994 and 2000 (text revision), acknowledges for the first time that the ADHD diagnosis persists into adulthood.[10] According to the DSM-IV criteria, an ADHD diagnosis requires that 6 symptoms of either inattention or hyperactivity-impulsivity or both must be present (Table 1).The individual does not have to exhibit all symptoms before the age of 7 years, however. The symptoms must be present for at least 6 months and must result in impairments in at least 2 areas of life, such as the home and office. DSM-IV describes 3 subtypes of ADHD: predominantly hyperactive (6 or more symptoms), predominantly inattentive (6 or more symptoms), and a combined type with both hyperactive and inattentive symptoms (6 or more symptoms of each). These diagnostic criteria are based on observations of school-aged children in a field trial that did not include any adults. As a result, the criteria have certain limitations when applied to adults: * Some of the symptoms are not developmentally appropriate for adults, such as "runs and climbs excessively,"
what about being a peeping tom and running and climbing? I tend to like looking at dogs like Elliots dog banghor. "has difficulty playing quietly," or "often has difficulty waiting turn."
I get the vision of Tonya here, being six years old and whaming some poor sucker for being in the wrong place at wrong time Since this results in a smaller applicable pool of listed symptoms for adults than for children, some adults with ADHD may not meet the 6-symptom criteria the DSM-IV requires.
Yes will they make up their freakin mind, lives are being wasted, look at me. Look at what I could have been ( somewhere I think I need another person to answer my questions) * Some symptoms may not be apparent in the work or social environment of a particular individual. For example, an adult who works alone does not readily have the opportunity to "talk excessively."
so their excessive behavior is only apparent when confronted? Does da anxiety and hypertension turn off when no social interaction is apparent when indicated ( I should have been a pharmacist) * Although some adults have fewer symptoms than they did as children, the symptoms they retain may have become progressively more severe, making them more functionally impaired even though they don’t have as many symptoms as the DSM-IV requires for an ADHD diagnosis.
Thats it thats me I am impaired because of deselective diagnosis mal practice in not knowing I was becoming more impaired as time marched on. Who could disagree me or Bell is severely disinformed ? * An adult patient may have impairing symptoms of the disorder that are not in the DSM-IV list, such as marital or work problems.
Will you please stick to the damn DSM IV list! drats you want to make a grown man nuts do you? * The requirement that some symptoms appear before the age of 7 years may not be reasonable for inattentive symptoms, which may manifest only in the context of academic demands.[11] This limitation of the DSM-IV criteria also applies to diagnosis of ADHD in childhood.
ok whats that mean Hurry up I am falling into the no comeback zone, meaning my disability is so bad by me not addressing my anxiety I had to come here to understand how bad it really was. Now could they put me back on the intertime explanatory ship? Twirl me towards the 1950s, I want to see if Marilyn Monroe would recognize me * The subtype classifications are not useful. Patients rarely meet the criteria for either the predominantly inattentive or hyperactive-impulsive subtypes of ADHD.
Patients rarely meet any criteria in mental health so the Docts dont have to be held responsible when the diagnosis never works out, But hey this is such a science I will take what they give me anyhow. Many observers think the subtypes should be dropped because most patients have combined symptoms yet may not fit into this subtype as the DSM-IV defines it. This aint fair. I would like to experience the bliss of being treated wth meds for hyperactivity. I read all the success stories and say what if it worked on me before the observers stopped trying the meds specificaly for my condition and I could have , should have been better but they lumped me in with the rest of the crew.
Condition being person with anxiety who probably has a few problems who could have been a success if not for the mistreatment by patients and friends of the staff alike A Difficult Diagnosis
its not difficult, they dont have any problems calling you something if you gots good insurance and I dont have any problems if they have buffets in their cafeterias ( totinos pizza) The limitations of the DSM-IV criteria are just one of the challenges of diagnosing ADHD in adults.[12] Others include: * Many people have the core symptoms of ADHD to some degree. Making sure that the patient’s symptoms impair their functioning is therefore essential to an ADHD diagnosis. It is also important to note that symptoms of ADHD tend to last throughout the day.
MIND TEND TO LAST TILL ORGASM THEN IN A FEW HOURS MY BREATHING IS HORRIBLE AND i MY CHEST GETS TIGHT i WOULD BE A GOOD PERSON TO TAKE OUT INSURANCE ON AS A WAY TO MAKE GOOD MONEY nO ONE CARES. BOY WOULD i LIKE TO CONTINUE BUT MY ADD HAS RUN ITS COURSE FOR THE TIME BEING. i AM AT A STAGE WHERE i AM WONDERING IF BEING HERE IS A FORM OF GENE ANOMOLY, MEANING THERE IS A GOOD CHANCE i WOULD BE IN MORE TROUBLE WITHOUT THIS COMPUTER. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – * Determining impairment in 2 areas of life, as mandated by DSM-IV, can be difficult to determine, however, because many adults with ADHD have developed coping mechanisms, including denying that their impairments exist. Consider, for example, the salesman who takes pride in his heavy schedule of high-energy sales calls, which produce a lot of business. This individual may end up in your office because he is impaired in just one area of his life-he is tortured by his inability to sit still at home or even on vacation. Other individuals with ADHD-caused hyperactivity choose careers where the impairment is practically part of the job description-emergency medicine physicians and professional cooks, for example. * Comorbidity is common in ADHD, affecting perhaps 3 of every 4 patients (see "Comorbidities and Functional Impairments in Adult ADHD"). Mood disorders (major depression, bipolar disorder, and dysthymia), anxiety disorders, substance abuse, personality disorders, antisocial behavior, and learning disabilities are the chief psychiatric comorbidities.[13-16] As a result, it is important to evaluate the patient with ADHD for such comorbidities and look for ADHD in a patient who comes to you with another psychiatric problem. * Though the diagnosis of ADHD in adults depends on verifying that symptoms first appeared in childhood, obtaining childhood recollections and early records is difficult. * No litmus test-such as a neuropsychological test, brain scan, or blood test-is available for reliably
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"If you want a new idea, read an old book." What about new books? Mine is new, does this mean I have ADHD? Should I have taken ADHD meds? <g
Nah: with ADHD each old book can be nearly as exciting as a new book, I hear the effect is maximised with comorbid dyslexia. Vashti
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Durn! I didn’t get any comorbid dyslexia. G
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – "If you want a new idea, read an old book." What about new books? Mine is new, does this mean I have ADHD? Should I have taken ADHD meds? <g Nah: with ADHD each old book can be nearly as exciting as a new book, I hear the effect is maximised with comorbid dyslexia. Vashti
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Durn! I didn’t get any comorbid dyslexia.
Maybe you could make do with Pernicious anemia or plain old B12 malabsorption? Could takes quite a few years to get you to your full potential though. Vashti
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True, but where there’s a will, there’s a way! G ;^
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Durn! I didn’t get any comorbid dyslexia. Maybe you could make do with Pernicious anemia or plain old B12 malabsorption? Could takes quite a few years to get you to your full potential though. Vashti
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of communication, so pecked out: DSM-IV describes 3 subtypes of ADHD: predominantly hyperactive (6 or more symptoms), predominantly inattentive (6 or more symptoms), and a combined type with both hyperactive and inattentive symptoms (6 or more symptoms of each). What, no ADHD NOS or is that in the next DSM? I’m not at liberty to say what’s going to be in the DSM-V. I could tell you, but then I’d have to kill you.
Hey, I only know it was discussed at some point and looked like a likely inclusion… I know nothing more, *honest*! Holland is a ‘tad’ out of my safe zone, so I’m once again silenced (hears the applause) by my disorder.
Aw, have a virtual Ritalin instead. Vashti
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DSM-IV describes 3 subtypes of ADHD: predominantly hyperactive (6 or more symptoms), predominantly inattentive (6 or more symptoms), and a combined type with both hyperactive and inattentive symptoms (6 or more symptoms of each).
What, no ADHD NOS or is that in the next DSM? Vashti
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First, thanks for printing the article, I did actually find it interesting, and it met a CME requirement at no charge. I would also like additional "continuing education", perhaps best to call it "CLE" for creative life exploitation… Specifically, how does one make money (am not working unfortunately) from saying Totinos Pizza? Please advise. Any and all financial contributions will be accepted, and you will recieve a free copy of my book, "Nursing in the New Millenium: Incorporating Role Models from the 20th century into Clinical Practice" Extensive exploration of the Ratched techniques and other methods for dealing with refractory disordered patients, or simply recalcitrant individuals is extensively discussed in this very insightful and revealing publication. As a bonus, I will even autograph it. "If you want a new idea, read an old book." What about new books? Mine is new, does this mean I have ADHD? Should I have taken ADHD meds? <g
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I shoulda took adhd meds
Hey…..fuck you, are you making fun of people with ADD? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060208/ap_on_he_me/attention_deficit discovered the finger method of communication, so pecked out: I tend to like looking at dogs I get the vision of Tonya here you calling her a dog? lives are being wasted, look at me. lol I should have been a pharmacist and sell drugz? oh my! I am impaired d’oh! man nuts give it time, they’ll grow in…. Now could they put me back on the intertime explanatory ship? if only…. I will take what they give me welfare I dont have any problems <G ( totinos pizza) cha-ching – corp amerika just put another penny into stevie’s pocket for using his ‘buzz’ word. MIND TEND TO LAST TILL ORGASM your mind IS an orgasm white sticky goo. get any on ya? WASH YOUR HANDS!! MY CHEST GETS TIGHT From nestling in Tanya’s bosom cradle in your dreams? Do the tighten up….. your response to this article seems to prove that you couldn’t show yourself to be any dumber if you were paid to do it. Well, perhaps totinos is why you’re anxious. NoT WHY you’re anxious, but maybe why. don’t think about it – you’ll have another orgasm — Elliott remove yourshoes to email http://www.unitedmedia.com/creators/ballardst/ If you want a new idea, read an old book.
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I shoulda took adhd meds http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060208/ap_on_he_me/attention_deficit
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – discovered the finger method of communication, so pecked out: I tend to like looking at dogs I get the vision of Tonya here you calling her a dog? lives are being wasted, look at me. lol I should have been a pharmacist and sell drugz? oh my! I am impaired d’oh! man nuts give it time, they’ll grow in…. Now could they put me back on the intertime explanatory ship? if only…. I will take what they give me welfare I dont have any problems <G ( totinos pizza) cha-ching – corp amerika just put another penny into stevie’s pocket for using his ‘buzz’ word. MIND TEND TO LAST TILL ORGASM your mind IS an orgasm white sticky goo. get any on ya? WASH YOUR HANDS!! MY CHEST GETS TIGHT From nestling in Tanya’s bosom cradle in your dreams? Do the tighten up….. your response to this article seems to prove that you couldn’t show yourself to be any dumber if you were paid to do it. Well, perhaps totinos is why you’re anxious. NoT WHY you’re anxious, but maybe why. don’t think about it – you’ll have another orgasm — Elliott remove yourshoes to email http://www.unitedmedia.com/creators/ballardst/ If you want a new idea, read an old book.
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