Filed under: Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder
Question:
Psycholobabble… [thanks to Marvin, an excellent valuation of the DSM-IV]. The entity *somatization disorder* is psychobabble and is obtained from the
< plagiarized material snipped Marvin who, Jan? Published where, Jan? "Thanks to Marvin" is not an attribution unless your audience is familiar with Marvin and his work. Did this "Marvin" give you permission to post his article? Do you even know who "Marvin" is? You are a thief, Jan. Stop stealing the property of others. — –Rich Recommended websites: http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles http://www.acahf.org.au http://www.quackwatch.org/ http://www.skeptic.com/ http://www.csicop.org/
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Twin Res Hum Genet. 2005 Aug;8(4):392-401. Related Articles, Links Erratum in: Twin Res Hum Genet. 2005 Oct;8(5):542. Estimation of prevalence of DSM-IV and latent class-defined ADHD subtypes in a population-based sample of child and adolescent twins. Neuman RJ, Sitdhiraksa N, Reich W, Ji TH, Joyner CA, Sun LW, Todd RD. Department of Psychiatry, Washington University School of Medicine, St. The goal of this study is to determine the prevalence and age of onset of Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders and latent class-derived attention deficit/hyperactivity disorder (ADHD) subtypes in a population-based twin sample of boys and girls. Missouri birth records identified families with a twin pair 7 to 18 years of age. Telephone screening interviews for ADHD symptoms were completed for 5007 families. Diagnostic assessments were administered to 564 families with at least one twin meeting screening criteria, plus 183 control families. Prevalence and age of onset for both ADHD nosologies were calculated by sex and zygosity from parent report data. The prevalence of any DSM-IV ADHD was 6.2% overall, 7.4% in boys and 3.9% in girls. The inattentive subtype was most common in boys; the combined subtype was most common in girls. The mean age of onset of symptoms in children with any DSM-IV ADHD was 3.5 years, with no significant differences between boys and girls. Prevalences of latent class defined ADHD subtypes also varied by sex with the severe inattentive and combined classes more common in boys than girls. The age of onset of symptoms did not differ between boys and girls but were higher than in the DSM-IV subtypes. Findings in this twin sample showed that clinically significant ADHD, defined by either DSM-IV or latent class criterion, has an early age of onset and is more common in boys than girls. As clinical samples are most commonly composed of male combined subtypes, the inattentive subtype of both sexes in the general population is an under-treated segment of the general population. Publication Types: Twin Study PMID: 16176725 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Twin Res Hum Genet. 2005 Aug;8(4):392-401. Related Articles, Links Erratum in: Twin Res Hum Genet. 2005 Oct;8(5):542. Estimation of prevalence of DSM-IV and latent class-defined ADHD subtypes in a population-based sample of child and adolescent twins. Neuman RJ, Sitdhiraksa N, Reich W, Ji TH, Joyner CA, Sun LW, Todd RD. Department of Psychiatry, Washington University School of Medicine, St. The goal of this study is to determine the prevalence and age of onset of Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders and latent class-derived attention deficit/hyperactivity disorder (ADHD) subtypes in a population-based twin sample of boys and girls. Missouri birth records identified families with a twin pair 7 to 18 years of age. Telephone screening interviews for ADHD symptoms were completed for 5007 families. Diagnostic assessments were administered to 564 families with at least one twin meeting screening criteria, plus 183 control families. Prevalence and age of onset for both ADHD nosologies were calculated by sex and zygosity from parent report data. The prevalence of any DSM-IV ADHD was 6.2% overall, 7.4% in boys and 3.9% in girls. The inattentive subtype was most common in boys; the combined subtype was most common in girls. The mean age of onset of symptoms in children with any DSM-IV ADHD was 3.5 years, with no significant differences between boys and girls. Prevalences of latent class defined ADHD subtypes also varied by sex with the severe inattentive and combined classes more common in boys than girls. The age of onset of symptoms did not differ between boys and girls but were higher than in the DSM-IV subtypes. Findings in this twin sample showed that clinically significant ADHD, defined by either DSM-IV or latent class criterion, has an early age of onset and is more common in boys than girls. As clinical samples are most commonly composed of male combined subtypes, the inattentive subtype of both sexes in the general population is an under-treated segment of the general population. Publication Types: Twin Study PMID: 16176725 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
Psycholobabble… [thanks to Marvin, an excellent valuation of the DSM-IV]. The entity *somatization disorder* is psychobabble and is obtained from the DSM-IV manual and is used by psychologists and psychiatrists.MD’s have borrowed the entity for their own uses. It is a spurious diagnosis with no laboratory indicators. that somatization disorder is a kind of junk category into which physicians dump patients presenting with mind/behaviorialsymptoms and/or a history of such which the physician does not fancy or understand, especially if the patient does not present with symptoms or symptoms which are not separate diagnoses (also anon-scientific way of separating symptoms and causality) . I mentiont his because mercury and lead are both known to cause primarily "psychiatric" symptoms, with a history of emotional instability, etc.in patients. So a "scientist" is someone who makes "a priori" judgements about what neurological symptoms a heavy metal poisoned patient can and cannot have. A "scientist" demands laboratory indicators whenever his fraternity does so. When the fraternity does not do so, the esteemed scientist Rx’s Prozac like *mad*. But if the patient’s complaints appear in some kind of package which don’t meet the prejudices of the male clinician/voodoo doctor, then it’s necessary to pull out theDSM-IV manual and wax on about scientific discipline and create from thin air a "somatization disorder". It’s just another way of saying that one can create a loose definition of a nebulous condition and then stretch it to label anything which appears bizarre, so that rather than actually diagnose and solve problems you can dump the ones you don’t like into the recycle bin andlet the DSM-IV manual thumpers profit from the stash. That way everybody is happy. The male voodoo doctor gets to see himself as a scientist and the psych therapist gets another client. I believe that SD is used by doctors who do not like the idea that conditiions which affect the brain cause certain mental states and behaviors which are not in keeping with their own requirements for how disease is supposed to manifest in the human body. I believe the medical profession has an alliance with the psych profession because they share a common belief system. No, the starting point is to go back to college and unlearn the psychobabble taught to physicians in med school. But that cannot be done–with all the psychological investments involved in the career and selfhood and one’s supremecy of being–so instead one wages war on the Chronic Fatigue, Fibromyalgia, and Multiple Chemical Sensitivitysyndromes, since these syndromes are diseases of both body and brain,in which affective disorders are documented in all three. But since the Freudian-psychobabble-educated physician suffers cognitivedissonance when presented with these, the syndromes must be attacked. Continuing education is not an option. Instead, reality must be shaped to fit the psychological needs of the profession, and the patients need to be hazed. So rather than counsel with a psychotherapist over issues of selfhood and megalomania and deep insecurity which interfere with the process of continuing education–which is also the scientific process itself–it is necessary to reformulate these disease syndromes so that they fit into the 20th-century mind-body conceptual dualism taught to physicians, in which brain diseases are separate from diseases of thebody and mind states are separate from both. This needs to be done despite the fact that poisons such as lead and mercury have been known for 100 years to poison the brain, body, and mind all at the same time. So Science needs to be bent and manipulated to serve a profession which maintains a conceputal framework which is not rooted in Science, and those teachings must be maintained for those sychologically inclined to conservatism and intellectual dominance,all properly wrapped in the impressive rhetoric of scientific and clinical objectivity. A lot of your responses are flak garbage which you use to exhaust pariticpants. I made my position perfectly clear. Decades of psychobiological research, including century-long scientfically acquired knowledge on the effect of poisons such as heavy metals on the brain, show that mood and mental states can and do derive fromorganic origins. Meanwhile state-credentialed MD’s are writing books and articles about how biological psychiatry is "pseudoscience", a"myth", and a "fraud". On *this* subject the present generation is corrupt, and is not going to give up its intellectual commitment to the psychobabble it received in med school. On the issue of MCS, ascribing "affective disorders" to "psychologicalf actors" is an opinion which is rammed through as Science. It is accompanied by dismissive descriptions of mind states and behavior of the patients, with all kinds of unscientific judgements andassumptions as to 1) whether those mind states and behavior arelegitimate (e.g. fear of chemicals, stress of chronic illness), and 2)whether the mind states and behavior have an organic or non-organic origin. MCS *will* receive a fair hearing only when the medical profession gives up its intellecutal commitment to the teachings of psychology as the only explanation for how mind states and behavior alter with disease. You asked me for evidence of "mind-body conceptual dualism" and I just gave an example from a psychobabbling physician in this thread. Your technique is to bait and throw out idiotic flak, so that now we can have a separate existential debate as to whether there really is adualistic mind-body conception in modern medicine. Yes, physicians do recognize a connection between the two–they call it somatization disorder. That is, your boyfriend broke up with you and you are self-pitiful due to your past child raising and have along history of maladaptive behaviors and you have sunken into depression and can’t concentrate and now your immunity has sunk and now you have an infection etc etc. They may *also* talk about a"psychological component" as being the result of chronic stress from the illness. But the medical profession is selective about when the connection operates in one direction vs. the other. The fact is, there isn’t an economy for the problem of chronic mercury and lead exposure causing maladaptive dysfunctional unhealthy minds and behaviors. Not because the science doesn’t exist to support it. But because the economy doesn’t exist to produce the professional intellect to study, talk about, and treat it. The psychotherapists and psychologists would be in less demand. There would be no drugs to patent. Hence the facts are dropped from consciousness. That mercury and lead f**k up people’s emotions and minds (in addition to a hundred other symptoms) is so dropped out of consciousness that MD’s can write books that argue that Biological Psychiatry is a fraud. As a result, one must conclude that MCS is not caused by poisons–which just about everyone who has the illness and has clinical experience treating it argues–but rather is a somatization disorder. This is how economy and professional cultures distort reality and allow ingrained assumptions and bias to manipulate and distort the process of scientific inquiry. No, many physicians recognize that they are often dealing with illnesses that involve both the mind & the body. It would seem as if you are attributing their admission of this fact to some sort of denial instead. Incorrect. But commonly the same conclusion that some … read more »
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Question:
I’m aware of only Adderall. What other drugs are commonly prescribed? How do their effects compare to Adderall and what are the typical dosages of them? I posted this elsewhere, but I was just pprescribed Adderall but don’t like the idea of taking a habit forming drug. I’m just curious what other options are available and how effective they are.
First, most ADDers _wish_ that the meds would form an effing _habit_ so that we would quit forgetting to take them. Next, Adderall is one option. The most popular in the US at one time was methylphenidate (brand name "Ritalin"). Dextroamphetamine ("Dexedrine") also works for many people, as well as Desoxyn and I’m sure I’m forgetting another stimulant. There are variants on these with time release of various kinds, chiral purity, and other bells and whistles. Non-stimulants the two that are well known are bupropion (brand name Wellbutrin) and atomoxetine ("Strattera"). Some others have been tried with varying degrees of success. The main reason for the existence of Strattera IMO is the fear of stimulants induced by certain well-meaning crazies and misguided politicians–the side effects I experienced with it were terrible. I’ve had none to speak of with stimulants. Now as to what is effective, well, there’s no way to know for sure except to try them–different people respond differently and what works really well for one person may do absolutely nothing for another. — –John to email, dial "usenet" and validate (was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
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Thanks Nancy for all the good info and cites. The OP should be on his way to a much better understanding of this stuff. Snip, but I’ll leave in some cites There’s an overview of the stimulant meds at: "Attention Deficit/Hyperactivity Disorder and Stimulant Therapy" http://www.webmd.com/content/article/89/100384.htm That article mentions the most common name brands of stimulants, but doesn’t mention the two versions of Focalin or the new Daytrana methylphenidate patch. Plus, there are generic versions of some of these medications too. There was a lot of excitement about the non-stimulant Strattera when it was introduced, but I think that it’s lost a lot of those early very high expectations, especially as doctors and patients have had more experience with both its relative benefits and its drawbacks.
The people who posted here about Stattera seemed to have really nasty side effects. That is anecdotal, of course. There’s an overview of non-stimulant meds here: "Non-stimulant therapy (Strattera) and other ADHD drugs" at http://www.webmd.com/content/article/89/100387.htm
(snip) Most people are like me. I’m not saying anything in response to that, being that everything that’s in my head doesn’t have to be posted to usenet. <VEG
Bwahaha! That came out *so* wrong!
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I’m aware of only Adderall. What other drugs are commonly prescribed? How do their effects compare to Adderall and what are the typical dosages of them? I posted this elsewhere, but I was just pprescribed Adderall but don’t like the idea of taking a habit forming drug. I’m just curious what other options are available and how effective they are.
Most ADD meds are stimulants like Adderall, Ritalin (methylphedidate), dexedrine, etc. They are somewhat similar to caffiene, except cleaner (less jitters for most people) and not addictive when taken as prescribed. There are some non-stimulant meds now, but I don’t know much about them. Hopefully someone else will pipe up. Adderall is not addictive for most people when taken as prescribed (like practically never). People sometimes take way too much or snort it or inhale it to get high, and then it is quite addictive. But when you take your prescribed dose you are very, very unlikely to ever get addicted. I understand your worries – I am an addictive personality (quitting smoking was hell), and I worried too when I started methylphenidate. But I have been taking it for several years and I’ve never even raised my dose. I forget to take it – or whether I *have* taken it. I don’t feel it in my body. Most people are like me.
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m aware of only Adderall. What other drugs are commonly prescribed? How do their effects compare to Adderall and what are the typical dosages of them? I posted this elsewhere, but I was just pprescribed Adderall but don’t like the idea of taking a habit forming drug. I’m just curious what other options are available and how effective they are. Most ADD meds are stimulants like Adderall, Ritalin (methylphedidate), dexedrine, etc.
And Focalin. And all of the above now come in both regular and long-acting versions. They are somewhat similar to caffiene, except cleaner (less jitters for most people) and not addictive when taken as prescribed. There are some non-stimulant meds now, but I don’t know much about them. Hopefully someone else will pipe up.
Methylphenidate is still considered "the gold standard"–the first line choice in treatment–for ADHD, according to a doctor I’ve spoken with about the different ADHD meds. There’s an overview of the stimulant meds at: "Attention Deficit/Hyperactivity Disorder and Stimulant Therapy" http://www.webmd.com/content/article/89/100384.htm That article mentions the most common name brands of stimulants, but doesn’t mention the two versions of Focalin or the new Daytrana methylphenidate patch. Plus, there are generic versions of some of these medications too. There was a lot of excitement about the non-stimulant Strattera when it was introduced, but I think that it’s lost a lot of those early very high expectations, especially as doctors and patients have had more experience with both its relative benefits and its drawbacks. There’s an overview of non-stimulant meds here: "Non-stimulant therapy (Strattera) and other ADHD drugs" at http://www.webmd.com/content/article/89/100387.htm Adderall is not addictive for most people when taken as prescribed (like practically never). People sometimes take way too much or snort it or inhale it to get high, and then it is quite addictive. But when you take your prescribed dose you are very, very unlikely to ever get addicted. I understand your worries – I am an addictive personality (quitting smoking was hell), and I worried too when I started methylphenidate. But I have been taking it for several years and I’ve never even raised my dose. I forget to take it – or whether I *have* taken it. I don’t feel it in my body.
If stimulants when taken as prescribed were addictive, I doubt if as many ADHDers would frequently forget to take their meds, as so many reportedly do. Not too many addicts forget their fix. 
There are a growing number of studies which explain why stimulants, which can be highly addictive when snorted or injected, aren’t likely to become addictive when taken orally (at least in the amounts prescribed for the treatment of ADHD.) The doctor who’s leading the research in the area of stimulant addiction is Dr. Nora D. Volkow if anyone is interested in reading her research. Most people are like me.
I’m not saying anything in response to that, being that everything that’s in my head doesn’t have to be posted to usenet. <VEG Nancy Unique, like everyone else
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I’m aware of only Adderall. What other drugs are commonly prescribed? How do their effects compare to Adderall and what are the typical dosages of them? I posted this elsewhere, but I was just pprescribed Adderall but don’t like the idea of taking a habit forming drug. I’m just curious what other options are available and how effective they are. Thanks.
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I’m aware of only Adderall. What other drugs are commonly prescribed? How do their effects compare to Adderall and what are the typical dosages of them? I posted this elsewhere, but I was just pprescribed Adderall but don’t like the idea of taking a habit forming drug. I’m just curious what other options are available and how effective they are. Thanks.
http://add.about.com/cs/othertreatment/a/dramentreatment.htm Treatment Programs for the six subtypes of ADD. The following treatment guidelines are provided by Dr. Amen and should be used as a general guideline. All medical treatment should be monitored by your own physician. Please be sure to consult with your physician before beginning any exercise, herbal program or any other medical program. ADD Type:Classic ADD Diet:higher protein, lower carbohydrate Exercise: intense aerobic Herbal Supplements:L-tyrosine, grape seed or pine bark Medications:Stimulants such as Adderall, Ritalin, Dexedrine, and Cylert EEG Biofeedback:Enhance beta and suppress theta over the prefrontal area ADD Type:Inattentive ADD Diet:higher protein, lower carbohydrate Exercise: intense aerobic Herbal Supplements:L-tyrosine, grape seed or pine bark Medications:Stimulants such as Adderall, Ritalin, Dexedrine, and Cylert EEG Biofeedback:Enhance beta and suppress theta over the prefrontal area ADD Type:Overfocused ADD Diet:higher protein, lower carbohydrate Exercise: intense aerobic Herbal Supplements:St. John’s Wort. 5-HTP, L-tryptophan, Inositol with L-tryrosine Medications:Serotonin enhancing meds such as Effexor, Zoloft, Paxil, Prozac, or Luxox, may also need a stimulant EEG Biofeedback:enhance alpha over the cingulate gyrus ADD Type:Temporal Lobe ADD Diet:higher protein, lower carbohydrate Exercise: intense aerobic Herbal Supplements:GABA, gingko biloba, phosphytidal serine, Vitamin E, Piracetam Medications:Anticonvulsants such as Depakote, Carbatrol, Neurontin, Topamax, Lamictal, Gabatril, Dilantin EEG Biofeedback:enhance SMR and suppress theta over the affected temporal lobe ADD Type:Limbic ADD Diet:higher protein, lower carbohydrate Exercise: intense aerobic Herbal Supplements:DL-phenylalanine, L-tyrosine, SAMe Medications:Stimulating antidepressants (Norpramin, Wellbutrin,) EEG Biofeedback:enhance beta and suppress theta over the left prefrontal area ADD Type:Ring of Fire ADD Diet:higher protein, lower carbohydrate Exercise: intense aerobic Herbal Supplements:GABA, Omega 3 Fatty Acids Medications:Either anticonvulsants as lister in type 4 or the new antipsychotic medications such as Risperdal or Zyprexa parietal and lateral prefrontal areas and high alpha over the anterior cingulate
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Question:
Read an article awhile ago about ADD and Autism being linked and running in families. Can’t seem to find it currently. Anybody have any resources? Thanks n
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Read an article awhile ago about ADD and Autism being linked and running in families. Can’t seem to find it currently. Anybody have any resources?
I don’t have an article at my fingertips, but there have been a number of studies that discussed this issue. Have you checked PubMed to look at the studies themselves? In the meantime, for those interested in the autism-ADHD link, I found this new study which looked at the similarities between PDD, an autism spectrum disorder, and ADHD, food for thought: "Are pervasive developmental disorders and attention-deficit/hyperactivity disorder distinct disorders?" http://tinyurl.com/fueth Nancy Unique, like everyone else
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<<snip You .. actually .. THINK .. after your statement of .. "iron deficiency can cause .. DEATH" .. I’m going to take .. anything you say .. seriously .. ? Maybe someone .. thinks you know what you are talking about .. but .. it seems .. you .. don’t .. Who loves ya. Tom Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com Man Is A Herbivore! http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3 DEAD PEOPLE WALKING http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk
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<<snip You .. actually .. THINK .. after your statement of .. "iron deficiency can cause .. DEATH" ..
Err, I made no such statement. My statement was Iron was the standard treatment of what USED to be called ADHD back in the 50’s and 60’s.
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<<snip You .. actually .. THINK .. after your statement of .. "iron deficiency can cause .. DEATH" .. Err, I made no such statement.
Yes .. you .. did .. Groups: alt.support.attn-deficit, sci.med, sci.med.nutrition, sci.med.nursing, misc.health.alternative Not yet ratedRating: show options Reply | Reply to Author | Forward | Print | Individual Message | Show original | Report Abuse | Find messages by this author – Hide quoted text – – Show quoted text – Iron deficiency is prevelant in the US, UK, Canada, and Europe. Iron deficiency CAUSES in newborns and children: preterm delivery, low birth weight, developmental delays, behavioral disturbances, failure to grow normally, increased infections, lethargy,etc. In adults and children with severe or chronic iron deficiencies it causes: esophageal webbing, koilonychia, glosstis, angular stomatitis, pagophagia, gastric atrophy, spenomegaly, hypoxemia, etc. It can worsen cardio pulmonary disease, cause hair loss, and, although death from iron deficiency is rare, chronic, severe, and/or untreated iron deficiency *CAN CAUSE DEATH* www.medicinenet.com/script/art.asp?articlekey=62062 http://kidshealth.org/parent/medical/heart/ida.html www.emedicine.com/med/topic1188.htm Reply
Question:
*Treatment of ADHD with French maritime pine bark extract, Pycnogenol((R)).* Eur Child Adolesc Psychiatry. 2006 May 13;
(snip positive study results) Interesting…it took this long for testing…
Yeah. I’d like to take back every mean thing that I said to sellers of this product after May 13, 2006. At that point, they had some evidence. Hm. So, no apologies needed. — Everything I needed to know in life I learned in Kindergarten. Like: Beauty has a beginning, and an ending, but always lives beyond its span, in the hearts of many.
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http://www.nti-tss.com/
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What works really well for curing children of the hyperactivity quotient is to cover them with wall paper paste and tissue paper. That’ll keep their hyper asses still. What’s all this crap about curing hyperactive kids about, anyways? In today’s "MUST HAVE IT NOW" world, who’d have though children would turn out any other way. Fix the real problem, society in general. Nuke Everybody!
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – *Treatment of ADHD with French maritime pine bark extract, Pycnogenol((R)).* Eur Child Adolesc Psychiatry. 2006 May 13; Authors: Trebatick
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After a week, the Focalin seems to be working much better for me than methylphenidate, mostly in that I seem to have no side-effects apart from a little rebound when it starts to wear off. Stop reading right now if you already feel like you know more about me than you ever really wanted to. The most annoying side-effect of the MPH was that it stimulated my libido so much that it was sometimes pretty distracting. The Focalin doesn’t do that. It does make me feel quite calm and focused, and I’ve gotten more done in less time than in recent memory. ~Patti
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I have been curious about Focalin from time to time…my wife (probably soon to be ‘ex’) who *thinks* she’s a doctor but isn’t, is always telling me I should try something different (even though my *real* doctor and I agree that my current treatment is working well). I’m on Strattera and a low dose of Adderall. Anyway, I’m a little surprised that there is a noticable change between Ritalin and Focalin, but it sounds like for you there is. Glad it’s working well for you. It seems that proper meds are a long term experiment in which it really takes a while to see what works best for you. Here’s a blurb I found about Focalin (from 2001): "Focalin (dexmethylphenidate HCl), a refined formulation of Ritalin (d,l-methylphenidate HCl), has been approved by the FDA for the treatment of attention deficit hyperactivity disorder. Whereas Ritalin contains both the d and l isomers of methylphenidate, Focalin contains only the more active d-isomer. Isomers are compounds that contain the same number and type of atoms, but have different structures." – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – After a week, the Focalin seems to be working much better for me than methylphenidate, mostly in that I seem to have no side-effects apart from a little rebound when it starts to wear off. Stop reading right now if you already feel like you know more about me than you ever really wanted to. The most annoying side-effect of the MPH was that it stimulated my libido so much that it was sometimes pretty distracting. The Focalin doesn’t do that. It does make me feel quite calm and focused, and I’ve gotten more done in less time than in recent memory. ~Patti
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have been curious about Focalin from time to time…my wife (probably soon to be ‘ex’) who *thinks* she’s a doctor but isn’t, is always telling me I should try something different (even though my *real* doctor and I agree that my current treatment is working well). I’m on Strattera and a low dose of Adderall. Anyway, I’m a little surprised that there is a noticable change between Ritalin and Focalin, but it sounds like for you there is. Glad it’s working well for you. It seems that proper meds are a long term experiment in which it really takes a while to see what works best for you. Here’s a blurb I found about Focalin (from 2001): "Focalin (dexmethylphenidate HCl), a refined formulation of Ritalin (d,l-methylphenidate HCl), has been approved by the FDA for the treatment of attention deficit hyperactivity disorder. Whereas Ritalin contains both the d and l isomers of methylphenidate, Focalin contains only the more active d-isomer. Isomers are compounds that contain the same number and type of atoms, but have different structures."
Yeah. I did some reading before I asked my doc for it. My ADHD counselor had told me that the d-isomer has more CNS activity and the l-isomer has more systemic effects like increased heart rate, etc, though I never did confirm that through anything I read. It does seem to give me less in the way of systemic effects and absolutely improves my focus. It also doesn’t keep me awake.
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After a week, the Focalin seems to be working much better for me than methylphenidate, mostly in that I seem to have no side-effects apart from a little rebound when it starts to wear off.
Sounds great apart from the rebound, is there anything that would help with that? I had a lot of trouble with the rebound from Ritalin myself. Stop reading right now if you already feel like you know more about me than you ever really wanted to. The most annoying side-effect of the MPH was that it stimulated my libido so much that it was sometimes pretty distracting. The Focalin doesn’t do that. It does make me feel quite calm and focused, and I’ve gotten more done in less time than in recent memory.
Calm and focused is good! I’ve not heard about the libido effect before, that’d really disturb me I think. Vashti
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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have been curious about Focalin from time to time…my wife (probably soon to be ‘ex’) who *thinks* she’s a doctor but isn’t, is always telling me I should try something different (even though my *real* doctor and I agree that my current treatment is working well). I’m on Strattera and a low dose of Adderall. Anyway, I’m a little surprised that there is a noticable change between Ritalin and Focalin, but it sounds like for you there is. Glad it’s working well for you. It seems that proper meds are a long term experiment in which it really takes a while to see what works best for you. Here’s a blurb I found about Focalin (from 2001): "Focalin (dexmethylphenidate HCl), a refined formulation of Ritalin (d,l-methylphenidate HCl), has been approved by the FDA for the treatment of attention deficit hyperactivity disorder. Whereas Ritalin contains both the d and l isomers of methylphenidate, Focalin contains only the more active d-isomer. Isomers are compounds that contain the same number and type of atoms, but have different structures." Yeah. I did some reading before I asked my doc for it. My ADHD counselor had told me that the d-isomer has more CNS activity and the l-isomer has more systemic effects like increased heart rate, etc, though I never did confirm that through anything I read. It does seem to give me less in the way of systemic effects and absolutely improves my focus. It also doesn’t keep me awake.
Strikes me that the l-isomer would be less than desirable in those with a comorbid(still love that word!) anxiety disorder. An increased heart rate I do *not* need: panic disorder gives me enough free cardio workouts anyway, LOL! Vashti
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – After a week, the Focalin seems to be working much better for me than methylphenidate, mostly in that I seem to have no side-effects apart from a little rebound when it starts to wear off. Sounds great apart from the rebound, is there anything that would help with that? I had a lot of trouble with the rebound from Ritalin myself. Stop reading right now if you already feel like you know more about me than you ever really wanted to. The most annoying side-effect of the MPH was that it stimulated my libido so much that it was sometimes pretty distracting. The Focalin doesn’t do that. It does make me feel quite calm and focused, and I’ve gotten more done in less time than in recent memory. Calm and focused is good! I’ve not heard about the libido effect before, that’d really disturb me I think.
Oh that’s interesting. You’re right — it’s not on the list. I did tell the doc about the libido thing. The doc said he thought it might have been making me manic. He gave me a diagnostic tool for bipolar and made much of the fact that I have a sister diagnosed bipolar. I didn’t meet the diagnostic criteria, but now I see why he was thinking that. Concerta makes me histrionic and maybe even a little delusional, so I guess I have to think maybe he’s right. That’s kinda scary.
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Yeah. I did some reading before I asked my doc for it. My ADHD counselor had told me that the d-isomer has more CNS activity and the l-isomer has more systemic effects like increased heart rate, etc, though I never did confirm that through anything I read. It does seem to give me less in the way of systemic effects and absolutely improves my focus. It also doesn’t keep me awake. Strikes me that the l-isomer would be less than desirable in those with a comorbid(still love that word!) anxiety disorder. An increased heart rate I do *not* need: panic disorder gives me enough free cardio workouts anyway, LOL!
Right. My son’s pediatrician said the same thing — that the D-isomer has fewer systemic effects. Maybe when it gets to NL it will be worth a try. ~Patti
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[snippedy] Calm and focused is good! I’ve not heard about the libido effect before, that’d really disturb me I think. Oh that’s interesting. You’re right — it’s not on the list. I did tell the doc about the libido thing.
Weird though: when I was having the opposite libido reaction due to the prolactinoma it didnt bother me at all… didn’t really notice it myself and wouldn’t have known without some er- pointed remarks. The doc said he thought it might have been making me manic. He gave me a diagnostic tool for bipolar and made much of the fact that I have a sister diagnosed bipolar. I didn’t meet the diagnostic criteria, but now I see why he was thinking that. Concerta makes me histrionic and maybe even a little delusional, so I guess I have to think maybe he’s right. That’s kinda scary.
{{{Patti}}} I wouldn’t worry about it except when you’re having those symptoms, they could just be med-induced? Vashti
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Strikes me that the l-isomer would be less than desirable in those with a comorbid(still love that word!) anxiety disorder. An increased heart rate I do *not* need: panic disorder gives me enough free cardio workouts anyway, LOL! Right. My son’s pediatrician said the same thing — that the D-isomer has fewer systemic effects. Maybe when it gets to NL it will be worth a try.
M U S T remember to try to keep an eye out for news on focalin! Grr: Concerta still isn’t covered, just up to the cost of generic Ritalin. Vashti
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Strikes me that the l-isomer would be less than desirable in those with a comorbid(still love that word!) anxiety disorder. An increased heart rate I do *not* need: panic disorder gives me enough free cardio workouts anyway, LOL! Right. My son’s pediatrician said the same thing — that the D-isomer has fewer systemic effects. Maybe when it gets to NL it will be worth a try. M U S T remember to try to keep an eye out for news on focalin! Grr: Concerta still isn’t covered, just up to the cost of generic Ritalin. Vashti
Focalin makes my little one intense and weepy, so it doesn’t work for everybody. Sad.
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Strikes me that the l-isomer would be less than desirable in those with a comorbid(still love that word!) anxiety disorder. An increased heart rate I do *not* need: panic disorder gives me enough free cardio workouts anyway, LOL! Right. My son’s pediatrician said the same thing — that the D-isomer has fewer systemic effects. Maybe when it gets to NL it will be worth a try. M U S T remember to try to keep an eye out for news on focalin! Grr: Concerta still isn’t covered, just up to the cost of generic Ritalin. Vashti Focalin makes my little one intense and weepy, so it doesn’t work for everybody. Sad.
I’m interested to see it up here in Kaaannnadda-igloo-land as well. If nothing else, it seems to make sense to isolate the most active isomer and lower the overall dose one has to ingest. It must be a lot more $$$ though? Thanks SP — Take out the TRA..ASH to reply
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Pediatrics. 2003 May;111(5 Pt 1):1010-6. Related Articles, Links Growth deficits and attention-deficit/hyperactivity disorder revisited: impact of gender, development, and treatment. Biederman J, Faraone SV, Monuteaux MC, Plunkett EA, Gifford J, Spencer T. Pediatric Psychopharmacology Unit of the Psychiatry Department, Massachusetts General Hospital. Harvard Medical School, Boston, OBJECTIVE: Although the relationship between putative growth deficits and attention-deficit/hyperactivity disorder (ADHD) has been examined in boys, this issue has not been evaluated in girls. METHODS: Height and weight were examined in 124 female ADHD children and 116 female controls using age and parental height corrections, attending to issues of pubertal stage and treatment. Also, we examined the interaction between ADHD status and gender on growth outcomes using data from 124 ADHD and 109 control males. RESULTS: The ADHD-growth association was not moderated by gender. No deficits in age-adjusted height or age and height-adjusted weight were detected in ADHD girls. Also, we found no association between growth measurements and psychotropic treatment, malnutrition, short stature, pubertal development, family history of ADHD, or psychiatric comorbidity, except for major depression: ADHD girls with major depression were on average 7.6 kg heavier than ADHD girls without depression, adjusting for age and height. CONCLUSIONS: No growth deficits appear to be associated with ADHD or its treatment in females. These findings add to a growing literature supporting the notion that stimulant treatment does not have an adverse impact on ADHD children’s growth and development. PMID: 12728081 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
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Wow, good news.
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I was wondering, do stimulants reduce growth in boys and girls or does it not? Because I read other studies that showed that these medications do that.
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Now you may not believe me or think I am from scientology or anything, but I’m not. The treatment is, I think, the cause. There was a study which adressed the genotoxicity of methylphendate, conducted in Texas [1]. The study showed very significant (P=0.000) change in chromosome aberrations after just 3 months of treatment with methylphenidate. Damage to DNA makes cells senesence, unable to divide. The cells need DNA to divide. So if the cells are unable to divide this has impact on the child’s growth. It’s a cruel world mark probert. :’( [1] Randa A. el Zein ea., Cytogenetic effects in children treated with methylphenidate, http://psychrights.org/Drugs/cytogenetic-ritalin.pdf
If you are correct, explain why this effect, which was in vitro, IIRC, does not affect girls. If anything, it should be gender neutral.
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I was wondering, do stimulants reduce growth in boys and girls or does it not? Because I read other studies that showed that these medications do that.
The issue is still not decided. One good study a few years ago indicated that the growth pattern of kids with AD/HD, regardless of whether they were medicated, is just different, thus giving the appearance of growth stunting or lag.
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I was wondering, do stimulants reduce growth in boys and girls or does it not? Because I read other studies that showed that these medications do that.
YS(16) was on meds for 1 year. He is just now in the beginning stages of his growing spurt and is already over 6′2". My grandmother’s projected height for him is 6′6". He’s well on his way. If the methylphenidate reduced his growth rate, I wonder how tall he’d have been. BTW, he’s wearing a size 13 ski, er, uhm, shoe. Kitten
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Look at this: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&… It should clarify.
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expounded: I was wondering, do stimulants reduce growth in boys and girls or does it not? Because I read other studies that showed that these medications do that. YS(16) was on meds for 1 year. He is just now in the beginning stages of his growing spurt and is already over 6′2". My grandmother’s projected height for him is 6′6". He’s well on his way. If the methylphenidate reduced his growth rate, I wonder how tall he’d have been. BTW, he’s wearing a size 13 ski, er, uhm, shoe. Kitten
My son wishes Ritalin retarded his growth ;- He’s 6′5". We think he’s done at 21, but sometimes he says he still feels growing pains (he got them right above his knees). Imagine how tall he’d be if he’d never taken it! <BSEG — Ann e-mail address is not checked
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I was wondering, do stimulants reduce growth in boys and girls or does it not? Because I read other studies that showed that these medications do that.
Some early studies suggested that, later ones found that pretty much the same pattern occurred in diagnosed ADDers who did not take meds–total growth is the same but in ADDers there seems to be a delayed growth spurt. — –John to email, dial "usenet" and validate (was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
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Look at this: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&… It should clarify.
Actually, it is irrelevant to the question posed. I posted an abstract of a study which showed that evidence of genotoxicity may be gender biased. Your link discusses height.
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – expounded: I was wondering, do stimulants reduce growth in boys and girls or does it not? Because I read other studies that showed that these medications do that. YS(16) was on meds for 1 year. He is just now in the beginning stages of his growing spurt and is already over 6′2". My grandmother’s projected height for him is 6′6". He’s well on his way. If the methylphenidate reduced his growth rate, I wonder how tall he’d have been. BTW, he’s wearing a size 13 ski, er, uhm, shoe. Kitten My son wishes Ritalin retarded his growth ;- He’s 6′5". We think he’s done at 21, but sometimes he says he still feels growing pains (he got them right above his knees). Imagine how tall he’d be if he’d never taken it! <BSEG
You blew his chances for a career in the NBA.
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Your study measured height without reference to treatment duration. So there is no telling how much methylphenidate the girls in the study used and if they were in treatment at all..
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Look at this: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&… It should clarify. Actually, it is irrelevant to the question posed. I posted an abstract of a study which showed that evidence of genotoxicity may be gender biased. Your link discusses height.
This is in error.
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Your study measured height without reference to treatment duration. So there is no telling how much methylphenidate the girls in the study used and if they were in treatment at all..
Knowing the researchers, I would suspect that the actual study addresses your points.
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The study abstract did not show the amount of methylphenidate the girls were using or adderall if they were using that. How much methylphenidate did the girls use? 2 mg/kg/day????
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The study abstract did not show the amount of methylphenidate the girls were using or adderall if they were using that. How much methylphenidate did the girls use? 2 mg/kg/day????
Visit PubMed, find the abstract, and see if you can find the full study.
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hey i take the xr and it really helps me. well i take the same stuff as you and it really helps me to but if i take it after 9 pm im up the whole day. so i take it in the morning and i have to take it at 8:30 in the morning. so its going good for me. well thanks for replying by. hope you get rid of your adhd or if you can get rid of the adhd? well i dont know if you can.
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i take the xr and it helps so i dont know if im sensitive to it well i got to go i will talk to you some other time. by
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Are you taking the ‘regular’ Adderall or "XR"? The regular tablets last about 4 hours, the XR is time-released so it lasts about 12 hours. Dave, my MD said the Adderall XR lasts 6-8 hours, and my experience seems to bear that out. I was just increased to 2 (20mg) XR a day, one to take when I get up and the second in the late afternoon, so I could benefit from its effects even after I left work. I wonder if you’re extra sensitive to it or something. ??? Priscilla
Odd, I was told it was 12 hours, so I was a bit surprised to get 14-15. I guess I’m extra sensitive, or maybe it’s the Strattera added to the mix, or maybe it’s the coffee I drink later in the day… 
Probably not the coffee though – I don’t drink that much and if I make it, it’s 1/2 decaf.
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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Are you taking the ‘regular’ Adderall or "XR"? The regular tablets last about 4 hours, the XR is time-released so it lasts about 12 hours. Dave, my MD said the Adderall XR lasts 6-8 hours, and my experience seems to bear that out. I was just increased to 2 (20mg) XR a day, one to take when I get up and the second in the late afternoon, so I could benefit from its effects even after I left work. I wonder if you’re extra sensitive to it or something. ??? Priscilla Odd, I was told it was 12 hours, so I was a bit surprised to get 14-15. I guess I’m extra sensitive, or maybe it’s the Strattera added to the mix, or maybe it’s the coffee I drink later in the day… Probably not the coffee though – I don’t drink that much and if I make it, it’s 1/2 decaf.
I find I get very different results from caffeine and Adderall. Caffeine acts on my like a stimulant, while Adderall really slows me down and even makes me a little sleepy. The first week I was on Adderall I took a nap one day when I was on it. I’ve had to increase my caffeine consumption since starting Adderall to combat the drowsiness. Of course, for me, increasing consumption means moving to 2-3 cups of tea a day from 1-2 cups. ;-) Priscilla
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hi im mitch, the medicen im taking is aderal or how ever you spell the word. but aderal works for me. first i was on a dose of five millagrams. then my mom and doctor made me take two of the five millagrams to make ten. because my ten millagrams wernt ready for me yet.But now im on 15 millagrams that really help me good in my school work and my listening.
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hi im mitch, the medicen im taking is aderal or how ever you spell the word. but aderal works for me. first i was on a dose of five millagrams. then my mom and doctor made me take two of the five millagrams to make ten. because my ten millagrams wernt ready for me yet.But now im on 15 millagrams that really help me good in my school work and my listening.
Mitch, Are you taking the ‘regular’ Adderall or "XR"? The regular tablets last about 4 hours, the XR is time-released so it lasts about 12 hours. I think most people who take the regular tablets have to take them at least twice a day, unless they only need the effect for 4 hours or so. I’m on 15 milligrams of Adderall XR (plus 80mg. of Strattera). If I take the Adderall by 9AM or so, I’m good till about 11PM (so I’m getting more like 14-15 hours from it). If I forget to take it by 10AM or so, I take a regular 5mg., then another one around 4-5PM. The main thing to remember is, don’t let anyone (friends, etc.) tell you what you should or shouldn’t be taking. If it works for you and your doctor and parents agree, then ignore anyone who says anything stupid about it. You are you, they aren’t, and you need to do what is best for you. I wish I’d had this stuff when I was your age, or at least when I was in college. I’d have done much better instead of struggling all the way through, and who knows what I could have accomplished? Good luck, and feel free to ask any questions. I don’t get the feeling that there are many people your age reading and posting here…have you looked into "CHADD"? It’s a national organization (www.chadd.org) "For Families & Adults with Attention-Deficit/Hyperactivity Disorder". They have a good website, a quarterly magazine ("Attention!") and they run some chats and seminars too. There is a membership fee but it’s worth it. -Dave
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Are you taking the ‘regular’ Adderall or "XR"? The regular tablets last about 4 hours, the XR is time-released so it lasts about 12 hours.
Dave, my MD said the Adderall XR lasts 6-8 hours, and my experience seems to bear that out. I was just increased to 2 (20mg) XR a day, one to take when I get up and the second in the late afternoon, so I could benefit from its effects even after I left work. I wonder if you’re extra sensitive to it or something. ??? Priscilla
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Question:
I will note that this was not *my* post…the OP appeared to have posted in rich text format, and I was not able to shift it when I replied, so I tried to offset his comments with the dashes…so this comment was not mine, but the other poster’s (Bob K, IIRC)
Understood. Sorry about that.
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I will note that this was not *my* post…the OP appeared to have posted in rich text format, and I was not able to shift it when I replied, so I tried to offset his comments with the dashes…so this comment was not mine, but the other poster’s (Bob K, IIRC) Understood. Sorry about that.
No problem…I just wanted to clarify that for anyone else reading it…it can be easy to lose attributions…I have seen some do it maliciously, on purpose…was hoping that this was more of an ADHD mistake, more of an "type/send/read" kind of thing…. <G — Buny " Nobody realizes that some people expend tremendous energy merely to be normal." ~ Albert Camus
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Forgive me for top-posting, but under the circumstances… LM, this is a lot of information to process. Lemme get back to you on this (eventually). <g If you recall, I`ve been away from the group for quite awhile. BTW, were you a "typical Ritalin kid"? <eg This was originally intended to be a simple ‘poll’, with any supplemental explanation or elaboration purely optional & subject to the responder`s discretion. So what happened to the word ‘poll’ in the initial post? Buny? I needed clarification on "typical ritalin kid" <g And, since I was diagnosed as an adult, no…. and, according to your clarification, neither were my sons…so I gave explanations in posts about them <g — Buny " Nobody realizes that some people expend tremendous energy merely to be normal." ~ Albert Camus
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–Did you grow accustomed to hearing someone (mom or dad esp.) saying: "Someone hasn`t taken their pill…"
A small comment on this. My kids take meds also, and I do sometimes say things like this – because us ADDers aren’t really great at self observation, and we really do need it pointed out that things go a whole lot better when we take out meds (and also get enough sleep, eat meals regularly, like that). I am reading this as a negative in your childhood, and I hope that my kids won’t feel that way. But I think it is information they need.
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–Did you grow accustomed to hearing someone (mom or dad esp.) saying: "Someone hasn`t taken their pill…" A small comment on this. My kids take meds also, and I do sometimes say things like this – because us ADDers aren’t really great at self observation, and we really do need it pointed out that things go a whole lot better when we take out meds (and also get enough sleep, eat meals regularly, like that). I am reading this as a negative in your childhood, and I hope that my kids won’t feel that way. But I think it is information they need.
I will note that this was not *my* post…the OP appeared to have posted in rich text format, and I was not able to shift it when I replied, so I tried to offset his comments with the dashes…so this comment was not mine, but the other poster’s (Bob K, IIRC) If you read through the *entire* post, you will see that I was not even *diagnosed* until my mid-thirties, so I never experienced this " –Did you grow accustomed to hearing someone (mom or dad esp.) saying: "Someone hasn`t taken their pill…"" So, if you go back, I would suggest that you correct your attributions, because I did NOT wrote this, Bob K did… to show this, I am correcting the attributions to show what truly happened, with the snippage to reflect this…
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – (Sumbuny) wrote; What do you mean by "roots"? I am assuming by the Subject line, you are asking if we were diagnosed at an early age? — Buny –Did you grow accustomed to hearing someone (mom or dad esp.) saying: "Someone hasn`t taken their pill…"
The above is what it *should* have read, if Emma Anne had correctly snipped her attributions…perhaps this will clear up any confusion? — Buny " Nobody realizes that some people expend tremendous energy merely to be normal." ~ Albert Camus
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Thanks to everyone for sharing recently. I hope to be able to respond more myself tomorrow. The Mediation Hearing I just came from at the County Court building downtown, which I`ve spent the better part of a week incl. all day today preping for in this latest & most desperate effort to resolve an ongoing dispute dating back to Nov. 2003 with my downstairs apt. neighbor "from Hell" was a complete waste of… Well… everything. 
(This is just one of the many prices I continue to pay for being a nice guy, with a killer-case of "Nice Guy Syndrome".) Tomorrow I intend to do whatever is necessary to apply for a restraining order, so I may be absent a bit longer. Thanks again Buny, Lm & Emma Anne. `be back soon. Sincerely, Bob
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – wrote; -Did you take a single dose of your Ritalin to school everyday to take at lunchtime, and what was that like? Did you struggle with it? Or even attempt to conceal the facts as you understood them at the time regarding ‘the pill’ from fellow students? — To answer your question(s) I was not medicated as a child. However, I am extremely grateful that all day meds have been developed for this generation of kids. F Amen to that. I might add that I myself am extremely grateful for the new treatments, including & especially the new meds for a variety of reasons, not-the-least-of-which is the fact that I`m now 42 years old, I STILL have ADHD and I still require treatment. And obviously most of the mainstream treatments that date back at least to the days of my childhood some 30 – 40 years ago, today range from merely inadequate to completely worthless. The best example of this being the Ritalin, which naturally was the 1st-and-foremost (and easiest) choice of medicinal treatment right from the onset (given my past history with it) by the staff at the aforementioned Adult AD(H)D Treatment Center I was a patient at for over 5 years, practically since the day they 1st opened for busness. My initial ‘trial’ actually started out magnificently in the beginning (I stilll have the ‘4 times daily’ log entries). Then unfortunately, after only days later raising the starting dose of 5 mg x 3 to 10 mg, one day shortly following my 2nd dose of the day around 12:30 P.M., things soon began to go gradually & horribly wrong. Over the course of the next 3-4 hours, I found myself at 1st gradually, then ever-increasingly going through one unexpected, unfamiliar, unpleasant but mostly inexplicable emotion after another, culminating in a full-blown paralyzing sense of totally irrational irritability. And I was working the whole time – as a courrier no-less, driving from one stop to the next, much of the time on a crowded suburban freeway! I managed to complete that segment of my route and return to base where I hid out in the breakroom until the clearly med-induced side-effect, the sensation of extreme and senseless agitation abated enough to allow me to safely return to "light duty" – but only after calling the Center and speaking to my doctor, who naturally told me to "pull the plug" for the remainder of the day, and to cut the dose to 2.5 mg the following day, which I naturally did. As instructed. As I always have. When it comes to "the meds" aspect of my treatment, I`ve always been very "med-compliant". -Analysis: Like many "typical Ritalin kids", either I was never on the right dose as a child to begin with for the nearly eight years I was on the damn stuff (which tells me the dose was probably too small, which would actually explain a lot of other things as-well), or I simply outgrew it – also not uncommon among hyperactive ‘lifers’ who took it for an extended length of time while growing up, `till it eventually just stopped working I guess, suddenly or gradually I don`t know, since I myself "just stopped taking it" eventually – also for reasons that today remain ‘unclear’ at-best. The next thing we tried almost immediately was of-course Dexedrine. Followed by Adderall, followed by either Ritalin-SR (don`t ask me why) or Concerta – I`ve forgotten the order – followed again by Adderall, which proved not-only then, but has proven consistantly ever since to be the best choice overall by far- even including the Strattera I tried for an extensive time in the Summer of 2003. After that, it was back on Adderall XR – this time for good. Over the past several years I`ve tried roughly 2/3rds of all the mood-altering meds, starting of-course with the amphetamines to every class of anti-depressant / including ALL the SSRIs AND the relatively-new S’N'RI Cymbalta most recenty, to the benzos, to the mood stabilizers to the atypical anti-psychotics. IOW, when it comes to treatment, I`m ‘very’ treatment-resistant to the meds (throw in ECT while your at it). Only Adderall, and Klonopin to a much-lesser degree, have done ’squat’ for me personally. Thanks for your input, Emma Anne.
Hi Bob, I’m sorry, I threw that cryptic and inverted progression at you, from out of the blue. (Doing it again. … <shakes head ) A while back, there was a little ‘trolling match’ between the 2 constituencies, near and dear to ASAD. I’ve only been around for a year, so you night know more about it than myself. One (set?) of scientific ‘evidence’ that was served up " suggested" that the usage of stimulants in childhood decreased the likelihood of substance abuse in adults. It seemed to me that "both" the experts and the trolling constituencies missed the obvious … Your story. I.E. Kids who are forced to take it are resentful and that is "why" they tend to abouse mind altering drugs as adults. The political bullshit, disgusts me. It only serves to mislead everyone. I figured out that I had ADD in my mid thirties, hence I never tried any medicine for it as a kid Two Comments: 1) I use both Rit and Dex at the same time. The combined effect is very different that the exclusive either Rit or Dex, choice. 2) Children are actively engaged in learning. ADD seems to be about "learning as required" rather than "using what is learned". With kids of my own who have ADD, I have often questioned the appropriateness of stimulants, altogether. As in, it’s NOT the right sort of thing for that stage in life. Better that the ADD kid learn how to make better usage of ‘perpetual learning’. This is a thought, anyhow? Not, a blanket criticism. Cordially, RL
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(Raving
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I could be wrong, but I too got the exact same impression that Raving was flaming O’Hush as well, but as I read further communication between the two which seemed peaceful, I think what must have happened was a type-o occurred, or that Raving is tweaking O’Hush’s chain and O’Hush knows it. Somehow, either way I think what appeared to be a flame to me, was friendly chatter. I got the impression that Raving and O’Hush are friends.
S’okay. RL only flames me when he’s drunk. <eg
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Thank you. I appreciate being enlightened. So he was right. Everybody will do better if they take speed. So why not make it available to everyone?
I can only guess. I’m guessing that the benefits of stims for neurotypicals aren’t worth the risk WRT the potential for abuse and addiction. Also, in general, perhaps it’s because we, as a society, frown on improving upon "normal" with performance enhancing meds. Maybe others have better explanations. Nancy Unique, like everyone else
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IMO, you come across as a jerk and an asshole. What? She’s being judged by a PA for taking prescription meds and she’s the jerk?
Thanks for sticking up for me :)
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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – IMO, you come across as a jerk and an asshole. What? She’s being judged by a PA for taking prescription meds and she’s the jerk? 2) I have known you long enough, so as to deliberately direct myself to IGNORE your ungainliness in this regard. … In other words, I seek for the postive and constructive <message convoluted within that awkwardness. . You’re punishing O"Hush because she’s blunt and to the point….and speaks her mind. As far as you seeking the positive……give me a break. — Ann e-mail address is not checked I could be wrong, but I too got the exact same impression that Raving was flaming O’Hush as well, but as I read further communication between the two which seemed peaceful, I think what must have happened was a type-o occurred, or that Raving is tweaking O’Hush’s chain and O’Hush knows it. Somehow, either way I think what appeared to be a flame to me, was friendly chatter. I got the impression that Raving and O’Hush are friends. Plus, I just can’t imagine Raving taking the sides of that abusive PA, over a fellow forum member and ADHD sufferer. Cheers and regards Ann. I really appreciate seeing folks come to the defense of others. The internet needs more folks like you who are willing to stick up for others.
Thank you ,Gary. Knowing posting history around here, I know why RL is poking at Patti. I am just as blunt and to the point as she is, I like that in a person. — Ann e-mail address is not checked
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – IMO, you come across as a jerk and an asshole. What? She’s being judged by a PA for taking prescription meds and she’s the jerk? 2) I have known you long enough, so as to deliberately direct myself to IGNORE your ungainliness in this regard. … In other words, I seek for the postive and constructive <message convoluted within that awkwardness. . You’re punishing O"Hush because she’s blunt and to the point….and speaks her mind. As far as you seeking the positive……give me a break. — Ann e-mail address is not checked I could be wrong, but I too got the exact same impression that Raving was flaming O’Hush as well, but as I read further communication between the two which seemed peaceful, I think what must have happened was a type-o occurred, or that Raving is tweaking O’Hush’s chain and O’Hush knows it. Somehow, either way I think what appeared to be a flame to me, was friendly chatter. I got the impression that Raving and O’Hush are friends. Plus, I just can’t imagine Raving taking the sides of that abusive PA, over a fellow forum member and ADHD sufferer. Cheers and regards Ann. I really appreciate seeing folks come to the defense of others. The internet needs more folks like you who are willing to stick up for others. Thank you ,Gary. Knowing posting history around here, I know why RL is poking at Patti. I am just as blunt and to the point as she is, I like that in a person.
You would.
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The so-called paradoxical effect of stimulants when taken by ADHDers was pretty much discarded many years ago. There are studies which indicate that stimulants affect individuals with and without ADHD just about the same way. Whether you have ADHD or not, stimulants typically will help with focus, increase the ability to concentrate, improve eye-hand coordination, and improve performance on tasks requiring a quick response time. That’s why non-ADHD kids take stimulants when pulling an all-nighter. And, given enough stimulants, and all individuals, ADHD or not, will feel wired, jittery, speedy. I guess the increased focus is just more noticeable in those with ADHD. If you’re interested in some of the studies, take a look at: Responses to methylphenidate in Attention-Deficit/Hyperactivity Disorder and normal children: update 2002. J Atten Disord. 2002;6 Suppl 1:S57-60. "Investigation of effects in normal children and adolescents and in those with disorders unrelated to Attention-Deficit/Hyperactivity Disorder (ADHD), as well as in young adult samples…indicate that stimulants appear to have similar behavioral effects in normal and in hyperactive children." Neuropsychopharmacological mechanisms of stimulant drug action in attention-deficit hyperactivity disorder: a review and integration. Behav Brain Res 1998 Jul;94(1):127-52. "Similarity of response of individuals with and without ADHD suggests that the stimulants do not target a specific neurobiological deficit in ADHD, but rather exert compensatory effects. Integration of evidence from pre-clinical and clinical research suggests that these effects may involve stimulation of pre-synaptic inhibitory autoreceptors, resulting in reduced activity in dopaminergic and noradrenergic pathways." Dextroamphetamine. Its cognitive and behavioral effects in normal and hyperactive boys and normal men. Arch Gen Psychiatry. 1980 Aug;37(8):933-43. "Both groups of boys and men showed decreased motor activity increased vigilance, and improvement on a learning task after taking the stimulant drug….While there were some quantitative differences in drug effects on motor activity and vigilance between these different groups, stimulants appear to act similarly on normal and hyperactive children and adults." Dextroamphetamine: cognitive and behavioral effects in normal prepubertal boys. Science. 1978 Feb 3;199(4328):560-3. "The similarity of the response observed in normal children to that reported in children with ‘hyperactivity’ or minimal brain dysfunction casts doubt on pathophysiological models of minimal brain dysfunction which assume that children with this syndrome have a clinically specific or ‘paradoxical’ response to stimulants."
Thank you. I appreciate being enlightened. So he was right. Everybody will do better if they take speed. So why not make it available to everyone? –Patti
Response:
It just felt like he was saying that I’m cheating; that by not taking stimulants, he’s taking the high road, unlike me. There are people who honestly feel that way — though usually they are people who have no clue what it is like to try to function with any disability. One of my youngest DD’s teachers told me that giving my LD daughter any accommodations would just make her not work as hard. No matter that my DD already had to work twice as hard to keep up. The teacher’s mind was made up and she found a hundred different ways to make my DD feel like a failure. Homeschooling is *so* much better.
I agree. Teaching anything is so much easier when they’re ready, and they can’t all be ready for the same thing at the same time. I wish they could be more flexible and more reasonable. And is that true anyway? Does everybody really do better on stimulants? I thought treating ADHD with stimulants relies on a paradoxical reaction that’s more or less unique to people with ADHD. Other people don’t calm down when they take stimulants, do they? It could be an urban legend, but I’ve heard stories of college students selling their prescription stimulants to students who use them to focus better on their studies or a test. I don’t know what the students who need the meds to be able to focus at all on their studies do without them.
Not an urban legend. I’ve been hinted at and occasionally asked to sell meds by classmates.
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The whole "paradoxical reaction" thing was disproven ages ago. ADDers on meds don’t "calm down", we just manage our behavior better. I stand corrected then. What felt to me like being calmed down, was actually a first time experience with a new experience, the experience of being *able* to calm myself down for the first time in my life, I knew what it was like not to trapped in a mind glutted with chaos and agitation. I guess the end result felt the same. Interesting. I remember folks telling me that I was so stoned and zombied and I would laugh and explain that I was not out of it at all, but was enjoying the peace of mind, I had never experienced before, and basking in the serenity.
People tell me that I’m "sad" when I’m on meds because I’m not going a mile a minute and shifting subjects every fifteen seconds. — –John to email, dial "usenet" and validate (was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I sort of blinked and told him a little pointedly that for me it’s mostly about social skills, that it’s important that I’m not a pain in the ass when I’m taking care of patients. Then he stopped making eye contact and started behaving sheepishly. I realized later that he probably thought I was saying that he was being a pain in the ass while he was taking care of me, which is very funny and I wish I’d thought of it. LOL! It is hillarious. Perhaps your subconscious thought of it? Yeah. My subconscious ought to do standup. ;) I was kind of thinking in the back of my mind "a pain in the ass… like you," but I didn’t realize until later that what I was thinking was so obvious. The other issue is that I get that way too — hyper and annoying (I take stimulants to control it), and I realize that he can’t help it. It just felt like he was saying that I’m cheating; that by not taking stimulants, he’s taking the high road, unlike me.
Let him take the high road and you take the low road and see who gets to Scotland first. And is that true anyway? Does everybody really do better on stimulants?
To some extent yes. I thought treating ADHD with stimulants relies on a paradoxical reaction that’s more or less unique to people with ADHD. Other people don’t calm down when they take stimulants, do they?
The whole "paradoxical reaction" thing was disproven ages ago. ADDers on meds don’t "calm down", we just manage our behavior better. –Patti
– –John to email, dial "usenet" and validate (was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I sort of blinked and told him a little pointedly that for me it’s mostly about social skills, that it’s important that I’m not a pain in the ass when I’m taking care of patients. Then he stopped making eye contact and started behaving sheepishly. I realized later that he probably thought I was saying that he was being a pain in the ass while he was taking care of me, which is very funny and I wish I’d thought of it. LOL! It is hillarious. Perhaps your subconscious thought of it? Yeah. My subconscious ought to do standup. ;) I was kind of thinking in the back of my mind "a pain in the ass… like you," but I didn’t realize until later that what I was thinking was so obvious. The other issue is that I get that way too — hyper and annoying (I take stimulants to control it), and I realize that he can’t help it. It just felt like he was saying that I’m cheating; that by not taking stimulants, he’s taking the high road, unlike me.
Yeah, like those people who went off their antidepressants and want everyone else to be depressed like them. What an appealling vision! And is that true anyway? Does everybody really do better on stimulants?
In the same way that "everyone" does better on coffee, I guess. A stimulent helps you concentrate, unless it backfires and makes you jittery or whatever. The differences is much more dramatic with ADDers, though. I thought treating ADHD with stimulants relies on a paradoxical reaction that’s more or less unique to people with ADHD. Other people don’t calm down when they take stimulants, do they?
The paradoxical thing is not considered to be the case anymore. But doctors still certainly look at how the patient reacts in deciding if they were right about ADD. It’s not that reaction to the meds is diagnostic, but it is certainly *correlated* with ADD.
Response:
The whole "paradoxical reaction" thing was disproven ages ago. ADDers on meds don’t "calm down", we just manage our behavior better.
I stand corrected then. What felt to me like being calmed down, was actually a first time experience with a new experience, the experience of being *able* to calm myself down for the first time in my life, I knew what it was like not to trapped in a mind glutted with chaos and agitation. I guess the end result felt the same. Interesting. I remember folks telling me that I was so stoned and zombied and I would laugh and explain that I was not out of it at all, but was enjoying the peace of mind, I had never experienced before, and basking in the serenity. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – –Patti — –John to email, dial "usenet" and validate (was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It just felt like he was saying that I’m cheating; that by not taking stimulants, he’s taking the high road, unlike me. There are people who honestly feel that way — though usually they are people who have no clue what it is like to try to function with any disability. One of my youngest DD’s teachers told me that giving my LD daughter any accommodations would just make her not work as hard. No matter that my DD already had to work twice as hard to keep up. The teacher’s mind was made up and she found a hundred different ways to make my DD feel like a failure. Homeschooling is *so* much better. And is that true anyway? Does everybody really do better on stimulants? I thought treating ADHD with stimulants relies on a paradoxical reaction that’s more or less unique to people with ADHD. Other people don’t calm down when they take stimulants, do they?
Yep, you are absolutely right. First time I took anything for ADHD, it was Ritalin, I had gone days so hyper, I was sleep starved, I took the ritalin, and calmed right down and then slept for hours. Anyway, I gave up caffiene, because I suddenly become extremely sensitive to it. I would drink a soda and end up with extreme emotional pain. I stopped the cafffiene and the pain reduced. I guess I for one didn’t do well on that particular stimulant. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It could be an urban legend, but I’ve heard stories of college students selling their prescription stimulants to students who use them to focus better on their studies or a test. I don’t know what the students who need the meds to be able to focus at all on their studies do without them. Karen R.
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – IMO, you come across as a jerk and an asshole. What? She’s being judged by a PA for taking prescription meds and she’s the jerk? 2) I have known you long enough, so as to deliberately direct myself to IGNORE your ungainliness in this regard. … In other words, I seek for the postive and constructive <message convoluted within that awkwardness. . You’re punishing O"Hush because she’s blunt and to the point….and speaks her mind. As far as you seeking the positive……give me a break. — Ann e-mail address is not checked
I could be wrong, but I too got the exact same impression that Raving was flaming O’Hush as well, but as I read further communication between the two which seemed peaceful, I think what must have happened was a type-o occurred, or that Raving is tweaking O’Hush’s chain and O’Hush knows it. Somehow, either way I think what appeared to be a flame to me, was friendly chatter. I got the impression that Raving and O’Hush are friends. Plus, I just can’t imagine Raving taking the sides of that abusive PA, over a fellow forum member and ADHD sufferer. Cheers and regards Ann. I really appreciate seeing folks come to the defense of others. The internet needs more folks like you who are willing to stick up for others.
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I sort of blinked and told him a little pointedly that for me it’s mostly about social skills, that it’s important that I’m not a pain in the ass when I’m taking care of patients. Then he stopped making eye contact and started behaving sheepishly. I realized later that he probably thought I was saying that he was being a pain in the ass while he was taking care of me, which is very funny and I wish I’d thought of it. LOL! It is hillarious. Perhaps your subconscious thought of it? Yeah. My subconscious ought to do standup. ;) I was kind of thinking in the back of my mind "a pain in the ass… like you," but I didn’t realize until later that what I was thinking was so obvious. The other issue is that I get that way too — hyper and annoying (I take stimulants to control it), and I realize that he can’t help it. It just felt like he was saying that I’m cheating; that by not taking stimulants, he’s taking the high road, unlike me. And is that true anyway? Does everybody really do better on stimulants? I thought treating ADHD with stimulants relies on a paradoxical reaction that’s more or less unique to people with ADHD. Other people don’t calm down when they take stimulants, do they?
The so-called paradoxical effect of stimulants when taken by ADHDers was pretty much discarded many years ago. There are studies which indicate that stimulants affect individuals with and without ADHD just about the same way. Whether you have ADHD or not, stimulants typically will help with focus, increase the ability to concentrate, improve eye-hand coordination, and improve performance on tasks requiring a quick response time. That’s why non-ADHD kids take stimulants when pulling an all-nighter. And, given enough stimulants, and all individuals, ADHD or not, will feel wired, jittery, speedy. I guess the increased focus is just more noticeable in those with ADHD. If you’re interested in some of the studies, take a look at: Responses to methylphenidate in Attention-Deficit/Hyperactivity Disorder and normal children: update 2002. J Atten Disord. 2002;6 Suppl 1:S57-60. "Investigation of effects in normal children and adolescents and in those with disorders unrelated to Attention-Deficit/Hyperactivity Disorder (ADHD), as well as in young adult samples…indicate that stimulants appear to have similar behavioral effects in normal and in hyperactive children." Neuropsychopharmacological mechanisms of stimulant drug action in attention-deficit hyperactivity disorder: a review and integration. Behav Brain Res 1998 Jul;94(1):127-52. "Similarity of response of individuals with and without ADHD suggests that the stimulants do not target a specific neurobiological deficit in ADHD, but rather exert compensatory effects. Integration of evidence from pre-clinical and clinical research suggests that these effects may involve stimulation of pre-synaptic inhibitory autoreceptors, resulting in reduced activity in dopaminergic and noradrenergic pathways." Dextroamphetamine. Its cognitive and behavioral effects in normal and hyperactive boys and normal men. Arch Gen Psychiatry. 1980 Aug;37(8):933-43. "Both groups of boys and men showed decreased motor activity increased vigilance, and improvement on a learning task after taking the stimulant drug….While there were some quantitative differences in drug effects on motor activity and vigilance between these different groups, stimulants appear to act similarly on normal and hyperactive children and adults." Dextroamphetamine: cognitive and behavioral effects in normal prepubertal boys. Science. 1978 Feb 3;199(4328):560-3. "The similarity of the response observed in normal children to that reported in children with ‘hyperactivity’ or minimal brain dysfunction casts doubt on pathophysiological models of minimal brain dysfunction which assume that children with this syndrome have a clinically specific or ‘paradoxical’ response to stimulants." Nancy Unique, like everyone else
Response:
IMO, you come across as a jerk and an asshole.
What? She’s being judged by a PA for taking prescription meds and she’s the jerk? 2) I have known you long enough, so as to deliberately direct myself to IGNORE your ungainliness in this regard. …
In other words, I seek for the postive and constructive <message convoluted within that awkwardness. .
You’re punishing O"Hush because she’s blunt and to the point….and speaks her mind. As far as you seeking the positive……give me a break. — Ann e-mail address is not checked
Response:
It just felt like he was saying that I’m cheating; that by not taking stimulants, he’s taking the high road, unlike me.
There are people who honestly feel that way — though usually they are people who have no clue what it is like to try to function with any disability. One of my youngest DD’s teachers told me that giving my LD daughter any accommodations would just make her not work as hard. No matter that my DD already had to work twice as hard to keep up. The teacher’s mind was made up and she found a hundred different ways to make my DD feel like a failure. Homeschooling is *so* much better. And is that true anyway? Does everybody really do better on stimulants? I thought treating ADHD with stimulants relies on a paradoxical reaction that’s more or less unique to people with ADHD. Other people don’t calm down when they take stimulants, do they?
It could be an urban legend, but I’ve heard stories of college students selling their prescription stimulants to students who use them to focus better on their studies or a test. I don’t know what the students who need the meds to be able to focus at all on their studies do without them. Karen R.
Response:
I sort of blinked and told him a little pointedly that for me it’s mostly about social skills, that it’s important that I’m not a pain in the ass when I’m taking care of patients. Then he stopped making eye contact and started behaving sheepishly. I realized later that he probably thought I was saying that he was being a pain in the ass while he was taking care of me, which is very funny and I wish I’d thought of it. LOL! It is hillarious. Perhaps your subconscious thought of it?
Yeah. My subconscious ought to do standup. ;) I was kind of thinking in the back of my mind "a pain in the ass… like you," but I didn’t realize until later that what I was thinking was so obvious. The other issue is that I get that way too — hyper and annoying (I take stimulants to control it), and I realize that he can’t help it. It just felt like he was saying that I’m cheating; that by not taking stimulants, he’s taking the high road, unlike me. And is that true anyway? Does everybody really do better on stimulants? I thought treating ADHD with stimulants relies on a paradoxical reaction that’s more or less unique to people with ADHD. Other people don’t calm down when they take stimulants, do they? –Patti
Response:
I think you should give him more bullets to bite. ;-) Seriously, though, it might be good that your doc knows that the PA needs some work on his patient skills. I shudder to imagine this PA making such comments to a patient who doesn’t have your type of professional background.
He told me he writes a lot of prescriptions for ADD meds. Most of his patients are 18 to 22 and are probably a lot more easily manipulated. If your doc does speak to him, I hope he can do it in a gentle and constructive manner.
He’s pretty laid back. Once the pharmacist made a substitution for me without his consent because she couldn’t reach him by phone at the time. She said, "I’m more conservative than he is, so I’m sure he’ll okay this." And anyway, I’ll probably have forgotten about it by next month. –Patti
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I had to get a scrip refill for Concerta, and my doc wasn’t available, so I saw a PA at student health. He was very frenetic and talked a lot, asked me the same questions twice and interrupted me while I answered, and then he took a cell phone call in the middle of the visit. Even though his boss, my doc, has prescribed stimulants for me since May, he asked me questions about when and where I was diagnosed, and then he said, "Anybody will do better if you put them on speed. It’s just speed, you know." He then told me that he has ADHD and took meds for 20 years, but now he just "bites the bullet." I sort of blinked and told him a little pointedly that for me it’s mostly about social skills, that it’s important that I’m not a pain in the ass when I’m taking care of patients. Then he stopped making eye contact and started behaving sheepishly. I realized later that he probably thought I was saying that he was being a pain in the ass while he was taking care of me, which is very funny and I wish I’d thought of it. I just felt annoyed that he seemed to have an agenda, and his behavior was rather off-putting, so I guess I said it with an irritated look. I’m trying to decide whether to say anything about it next month when I see my doc, who has never made me feel at all uncomfortable about taking stimulants for ADHD. What do you think? –Patti
I think you should tell the doctor about it next time for a number of reasons. I would normally overlook this kind of behavior from someone but this is extenuating. 1. No medical professional has the right to compare someone taking proscribed medication for anything with someone taking an illicit street drug even by implication. 2. Who else is he treating this way? For the sake of whoever he is dealing this way with, I would mention it to the doctor. Years ago, it might be different now, but there was a Usenet newsgroup called ask a nurse, and the moderator was a staunch disbeliever in ADHD and he would publicly humiliate anyone who stated they had ADD/ADHD and if anyone tried to defend themselves or even ask reasonable questions about why are these symptoms here if the disease dies not exist? He would reply with something extremely insulting and immediately ban the person permanently. Needless to say, this was highly censored newsgroup. People like that, who are in a profession where sensitivity and compassion are very important who lack this, do not belong in that profession. It is interesting to note, that its not the doctors that make the most mistakes that get sued the most for malpractice, but its the ones that do not demonstrate true concern for their patients. OTOH, if you feel that his sheepishness was convincing evidence that he learned a lesson about not treating people as he treated you, than maybe nothing needs to be said.
Response:
I sort of blinked and told him a little pointedly that for me it’s mostly about social skills, that it’s important that I’m not a pain in the ass when I’m taking care of patients. Then he stopped making eye contact and started behaving sheepishly. I realized later that he probably thought I was saying that he was being a pain in the ass while he was taking care of me, which is very funny and I wish I’d thought of it.
LOL! It is hillarious. Perhaps your subconscious thought of it?
Response:
I sort of blinked and told him a little pointedly that for me it’s mostly about social skills, that it’s important that I’m not a pain in the ass when I’m taking care of patients. Then he stopped making eye contact and started behaving sheepishly. I realized later that he probably thought I was saying that he was being a pain in the ass while he was taking care of me, which is very funny and I wish I’d thought of it.
Clearly, it was well done and taken as such. I wouldn’t worry about it, especially if his ‘tude improved. It’s your call about mentioning this to your doc. — A few minutes ago I attempted to give a flying fsck, but the best I could do was to watch it skitter across the floor. (Anthony de Boer)
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I had to get a scrip refill for Concerta, and my doc wasn’t available, so I saw a PA at student health. He was very frenetic and talked a lot, asked me the same questions twice and interrupted me while I answered, and then he took a cell phone call in the middle of the visit. Even though his boss, my doc, has prescribed stimulants for me since May, he asked me questions about when and where I was diagnosed, and then he said, "Anybody will do better if you put them on speed. It’s just speed, you know." He then told me that he has ADHD and took meds for 20 years, but now he just "bites the bullet." I sort of blinked and told him a little pointedly that for me it’s mostly about social skills, that it’s important that I’m not a pain in the ass when I’m taking care of patients. Then he stopped making eye contact and started behaving sheepishly. I realized later that he probably thought I was saying that he was being a pain in the ass while he was taking care of me, which is very funny and I wish I’d thought of it. I just felt annoyed that he seemed to have an agenda, and his behavior was rather off-putting, so I guess I said it with an irritated look. I’m trying to decide whether to say anything about it next month when I see my doc, who has never made me feel at all uncomfortable about taking stimulants for ADHD. What do you think? –Patti
Patti, IMO, you come across as a jerk and an asshole. I would not be surprised to learn that the stimulants make you more … rather than less insufferable. 1 ) No matter. I don’t consider it important because although stimulants may decrease, limit and paralyze a person’s ability, I assume that the objective is overcome these limitations and learn how to take life more casually and gracefully. … I.E. learn to accept and use the deliberateness that stimulants afford … by learning how to stay away from the stressful limits. Repeating … IMO, you come across as a jerk and an asshole. 2) I have known you long enough, so as to deliberately direct myself to IGNORE your ungainliness in this regard. … In other words, I seek for the postive and constructive <message convoluted within that awkwardness. … <somehow, I sense that it is you at your "best". Admittedly, I am walking a very thin line. … I am accusing you of unpleasantness, yet I am advising you to stay the course with such unpleasantness because my feeling is that … … <such harshess is the *positive*, *respectful*, real you. …. You wrote … …I just felt annoyed that he seemed to have an agenda, and his behavior was rather off-putting, so I guess I said it with an irritated look. I’m trying to decide whether to say anything about it next month when I see my doc, who has never made me feel at all uncomfortable about taking stimulants for ADHD. What do you think?
I *think* that I hear Patti’s song … ( somewhat ) You are annoyed … Translation: .. You perceive that …. Who you are; what you do well; what you are hypersensitive toward is ignored/discounted/dismissed. Interpretation: * You, yourself, do NOT have any agenda. * You, yourself put people at ease … He was very frenetic and talked a lot, asked me the same questions twice and interrupted me while I answered, and then he took a cell phone call in the middle of the visit. …
* You are deeply aware of qualities which rile/discomfort people …Even though his boss, my doc, has prescribed stimulants for me since May, he asked me questions about when and where I was diagnosed, and then he said, "Anybody will do better if you put them on speed. It’s just speed, you know." He then told me that he has ADHD and took meds for 20 years, but now he just "bites the bullet." …
* You have noticed that the psch is *choking*; .. as in; allowing himself to ‘eat’ the unpleasantness … I have said, enough, here … and leave it at that. I *think* that I begin to hear your song, O’Hush … A song of gracefulness and compassion… Cordially, RL
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I had to get a scrip refill for Concerta, and my doc wasn’t available, so I saw a PA at student health. He was very frenetic and talked a lot, asked me the same questions twice and interrupted me while I answered, and then he took a cell phone call in the middle of the visit. Even though his boss, my doc, has prescribed stimulants for me since May, he asked me questions about when and where I was diagnosed, and then he said, "Anybody will do better if you put them on speed. It’s just speed, you know." He then told me that he has ADHD and took meds for 20 years, but now he just "bites the bullet." I sort of blinked and told him a little pointedly that for me it’s mostly about social skills, that it’s important that I’m not a pain in the ass when I’m taking care of patients. Then he stopped making eye contact and started behaving sheepishly. I realized later that he probably thought I was saying that he was being a pain in the ass while he was taking care of me, which is very funny and I wish I’d thought of it. I just felt annoyed that he seemed to have an agenda, and his behavior was rather off-putting, so I guess I said it with an irritated look. I’m trying to decide whether to say anything about it next month when I see my doc, who has never made me feel at all uncomfortable about taking stimulants for ADHD. What do you think?
I think you should give him more bullets to bite. ;-) Seriously, though, it might be good that your doc knows that the PA needs some work on his patient skills. I shudder to imagine this PA making such comments to a patient who doesn’t have your type of professional background. If your doc does speak to him, I hope he can do it in a gentle and constructive manner. Pablo
Response:
I have said, enough, here … and leave it at that. I *think* that I begin to hear your song, O’Hush … A song of gracefulness and compassion… Cordially, RL
Yes. I feel quite sure that I hear Patti’s song …. Words, … the same thing repeated over and over and over … I am also dissatisified with my description. The <direction confuses me. Is it gracefullness .. or … awkwardness? Do I sense what is emphasized or it’s inverse? .. It isn’t clear to me. The dissonance is frustrating me. There is no ethical or moral judgement. … Either <direction is worthy. I really hope/need to do better, here. Sorry. Whichever way it may be …. … awkwardness, gracefullness, something ‘complementary to either or both of these possibilities …. It would seem to be an ideal <match for being a nurse. Way to go Patti O’Hush !!! Keep pushing forward, eh. … You are doing great. RL
Response:
I had to get a scrip refill for Concerta, and my doc wasn’t available, so I saw a PA at student health. He was very frenetic and talked a lot, asked me the same questions twice and interrupted me while I answered, and then he took a cell phone call in the middle of the visit. Even though his boss, my doc, has prescribed stimulants for me since May, he asked me questions about when and where I was diagnosed, and then he said, "Anybody will do better if you put them on speed. It’s just speed, you know." He then told me that he has ADHD and took meds for 20 years, but now he just "bites the bullet." I sort of blinked and told him a little pointedly that for me it’s mostly about social skills, that it’s important that I’m not a pain in the ass when I’m taking care of patients. Then he stopped making eye contact and started behaving sheepishly. I realized later that he probably thought I was saying that he was being a pain in the ass while he was taking care of me, which is very funny and I wish I’d thought of it. I just felt annoyed that he seemed to have an agenda, and his behavior was rather off-putting, so I guess I said it with an irritated look. I’m trying to decide whether to say anything about it next month when I see my doc, who has never made me feel at all uncomfortable about taking stimulants for ADHD. What do you think? –Patti
Response:
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