Question:
Hi all… Is there a good site that has referral information on doctors who treat ADD/ADHD? Would be helpful if anyone knew a psychiatrist or psychologist, or both, in Phoenix Metro area, of Arizona?
Response:
Hi all… Is there a good site that has referral information on doctors who treat ADD/ADHD? Would be helpful if anyone knew a psychiatrist or psychologist, or both, in Phoenix Metro area, of Arizona?
Well, you could start at www.chadd.org. Look also in the appendexis of some well known books on ADD: Driven to Distraction by Dr’s Ned Hallowell and John Ratey. There’s also You Mean I’m not Lazy, Stupid or Crazy?! by Kate Kelly and Peggy Ramundo. There’s that book my Thom Hartmann – I think it’s called The ADDed Dimension. Also, try google. I used keywords 
hoenix, psychiatrist, ADHD – and the results look promising. I can do more digging if you like – just ask 
-stan
Response:
Hi all… Is there a good site that has referral information on doctors who treat ADD/ADHD? Would be helpful if anyone knew a psychiatrist or psychologist, or both, in Phoenix Metro area, of Arizona? Well, you could start at www.chadd.org.
http://namiscc.org/News/2002/Fall/DEAonRitalin.htm CHADD, non-profit organization, which promotes the use of Ritalin, also receives a great deal of money from the drug manufacturer of Ritalin. CHADD does not inform its members of the abuse problems of Ritalin. CHADD portrays the drug as a benign, mild stimulant that is not associated with abuse of serious side-effects. Statements by CHADD are inconsistent with scientific literature. The International Narcotics Control Board expressed concern that CHADD is actively lobbying for the use of Ritalin in children. http://brainwavecenter.com/library/dea/dea3.htm It has recently come to the attention of the DEA, that Ciba-Geigy (the manufacturer of the methylphenidate product marketed under the brand named Ritalin) contributed $748,000 to CHADD from 1991 to 1994. 26 The DEA has concerns that the depth of the financial relationship with the manufacturer was not well-known by the public, including CHADD members that have relied upon CHADD for guidance as it pertains to the diagnosis and treatment or their children. A recent communication from the United Nations International Narcotics Control Board (INCB), expressed concern about non-governmental organizations and parental associations in the United States that are actively lobbying for the medical use of methylphenidate for children with ADHD. The INCB further stated that "financial transfer from a pharmaceutical company with the purpose to promote sales of an internationally controlled substance would be identified as hidden advertisement and in contradiction with the provisions of the 1971 Convention (Article 10, para 2)." In 1993 and 1994 when Ciba-Geigy warned of an impending shortage of Ritalin, CHADD was active in having its members write their Congressional Representatives to complain about the situation. In letters to members and interviews with the media, CHADD officials also were active in perpetuating concerns that a shortage of Ritalin was imminent. The DEA received more than 135 inquiries from Congressional Representatives. In these communications, CHADD routinely referred to a "Ritalin shortage" as opposed to a "methylphenidate shortage." The relationship between Ciba-Geigy and CHADD raises serious concerns about CHADD’s motive in proselytizing the use of Ritalin through the use of the brand name as opposed to the generic name methylphenidate in its literature. In conjunction with the American Academy of Neurology, CHADD has submitted a petition to reschedule methylphenidate from Schedule II to Schedule III under the Controlled Substances Act. Ciba-Geigy stands to benefit from a change in scheduling of methylphenidate. However, CHADD denies that the financial contributions received from Ciba-Geigy have any relationship to the scheduling petition. Look also in – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – the appendexis of some well known books on ADD: Driven to Distraction by Dr’s Ned Hallowell and John Ratey. There’s also You Mean I’m not Lazy, Stupid or Crazy?! by Kate Kelly and Peggy Ramundo. There’s that book my Thom Hartmann – I think it’s called The ADDed Dimension. Also, try google. I used keywords hoenix, psychiatrist, ADHD – and the results look promising. I can do more digging if you like – just ask -stan
Response:
Hi all… Is there a good site that has referral information on doctors who treat ADD/ADHD? Would be helpful if anyone knew a psychiatrist or psychologist, or both, in Phoenix Metro area, of Arizona?
In addition to CHADD recommended in another post, which has a professional directory on its site, check the directory at Terry Matlen’s site, ADD Consults http://addconsults.com/ Nancy Unique, like everyone else
Response:
Hi all… Is there a good site that has referral information on doctors who treat ADD/ADHD? Would be helpful if anyone knew a psychiatrist or psychologist, or both, in Phoenix Metro area, of Arizona? In addition to CHADD recommended in another post, which has a professional directory on its site, check the directory at Terry Matlen’s site, ADD Consults <snip spam
The truth about CHADD. http://namiscc.org/News/2002/Fall/DEAonRitalin.htm CHADD, non-profit organization, which promotes the use of Ritalin, also receives a great deal of money from the drug manufacturer of Ritalin. CHADD does not inform its members of the abuse problems of Ritalin. CHADD portrays the drug as a benign, mild stimulant that is not associated with abuse of serious side-effects. Statements by CHADD are inconsistent with scientific literature. The International Narcotics Control Board expressed concern that CHADD is actively lobbying for the use of Ritalin in children. http://brainwavecenter.com/library/dea/dea3.htm It has recently come to the attention of the DEA, that Ciba-Geigy (the manufacturer of the methylphenidate product marketed under the brand named Ritalin) contributed $748,000 to CHADD from 1991 to 1994. 26 The DEA has concerns that the depth of the financial relationship with the manufacturer was not well-known by the public, including CHADD members that have relied upon CHADD for guidance as it pertains to the diagnosis and treatment or their children. A recent communication from the United Nations International Narcotics Control Board (INCB), expressed concern about non-governmental organizations and parental associations in the United States that are actively lobbying for the medical use of methylphenidate for children with ADHD. The INCB further stated that "financial transfer from a pharmaceutical company with the purpose to promote sales of an internationally controlled substance would be identified as hidden advertisement and in contradiction with the provisions of the 1971 Convention (Article 10, para 2)." In 1993 and 1994 when Ciba-Geigy warned of an impending shortage of Ritalin, CHADD was active in having its members write their Congressional Representatives to complain about the situation. In letters to members and interviews with the media, CHADD officials also were active in perpetuating concerns that a shortage of Ritalin was imminent. The DEA received more than 135 inquiries from Congressional Representatives. In these communications, CHADD routinely referred to a "Ritalin shortage" as opposed to a "methylphenidate shortage." The relationship between Ciba-Geigy and CHADD raises serious concerns about CHADD’s motive in proselytizing the use of Ritalin through the use of the brand name as opposed to the generic name methylphenidate in its literature. In conjunction with the American Academy of Neurology, CHADD has submitted a petition to reschedule methylphenidate from Schedule II to Schedule III under the Controlled Substances Act. Ciba-Geigy stands to benefit from a change in scheduling of methylphenidate. However, CHADD denies that the financial contributions received from Ciba-Geigy have any relationship to the scheduling petition. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Nancy Unique, like everyone else
Response:
Jan Drew wrote; CHADD, non-profit organization, which promotes the use of ___, also receives a great deal of money from the ___ manufacturer of ___. CHADD does not inform its members of the ___ problems of ___. CHADD portrays the ___ as a benign, mild ____ that is not associated with ____ of serious ____. Statements by CHADD are inconsistent with scientific literature.
Could one substitute a political party such as Democrat, Republican, Liberal, Conservative, Green, Raving Loonie … for CHADD? How clever. Cordially, RL
Response:
Jan Drew wrote; CHADD, non-profit organization, which promotes the use of ___, also receives a great deal of money from the ___ manufacturer of ___. CHADD does not inform its members of the ___ problems of ___. CHADD portrays the ___ as a benign, mild ____ that is not associated with ____ of serious ____. Statements by CHADD are inconsistent with scientific literature.
The truth about CHADD. http://namiscc.org/News/2002/Fall/DEAonRitalin.htm CHADD, non-profit organization, which promotes the use of Ritalin, also receives a great deal of money from the drug manufacturer of Ritalin. CHADD does not inform its members of the abuse problems of Ritalin. CHADD portrays the drug as a benign, mild stimulant that is not associated with abuse of serious side-effects. Statements by CHADD are inconsistent with scientific literature. The International Narcotics Control Board expressed concern that CHADD is actively lobbying for the use of Ritalin in children. http://brainwavecenter.com/library/dea/dea3.htm It has recently come to the attention of the DEA, that Ciba-Geigy (the manufacturer of the methylphenidate product marketed under the brand named Ritalin) contributed $748,000 to CHADD from 1991 to 1994. 26 The DEA has concerns that the depth of the financial relationship with the manufacturer was not well-known by the public, including CHADD members that have relied upon CHADD for guidance as it pertains to the diagnosis and treatment or their children. A recent communication from the United Nations International Narcotics Control Board (INCB), expressed concern about non-governmental organizations and parental associations in the United States that are actively lobbying for the medical use of methylphenidate for children with ADHD. The INCB further stated that "financial transfer from a pharmaceutical company with the purpose to promote sales of an internationally controlled substance would be identified as hidden advertisement and in contradiction with the provisions of the 1971 Convention (Article 10, para 2)." In 1993 and 1994 when Ciba-Geigy warned of an impending shortage of Ritalin, CHADD was active in having its members write their Congressional Representatives to complain about the situation. In letters to members and interviews with the media, CHADD officials also were active in perpetuating concerns that a shortage of Ritalin was imminent. The DEA received more than 135 inquiries from Congressional Representatives. In these communications, CHADD routinely referred to a "Ritalin shortage" as opposed to a "methylphenidate shortage." The relationship between Ciba-Geigy and CHADD raises serious concerns about CHADD’s motive in proselytizing the use of Ritalin through the use of the brand name as opposed to the generic name methylphenidate in its literature. In conjunction with the American Academy of Neurology, CHADD has submitted a petition to reschedule methylphenidate from Schedule II to Schedule III under the Controlled Substances Act. Ciba-Geigy stands to benefit from a change in scheduling of methylphenidate. However, CHADD denies that the financial contributions received from Ciba-Geigy have any relationship to the scheduling petition. Could one substitute a political party such as Democrat, Republican, Liberal, Conservative, Green, Raving Loonie … for CHADD?
No. Irrelevant. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – How clever. Cordially, RL
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Jan Drew wrote; CHADD, non-profit organization, which promotes the use of ___, also receives a great deal of money from the ___ manufacturer of ___. CHADD does not inform its members of the ___ problems of ___. CHADD portrays the ___ as a benign, mild ____ that is not associated with ____ of serious ____. Statements by CHADD are inconsistent with scientific literature. The truth about CHADD. http://namiscc.org/News/2002/Fall/DEAonRitalin.htm CHADD, non-profit organization, which promotes the use of Ritalin, also receives a great deal of money from the drug manufacturer of Ritalin. CHADD does not inform its members of the abuse problems of Ritalin. CHADD portrays the drug as a benign, mild stimulant that is not associated with abuse of serious side-effects. Statements by CHADD are inconsistent with scientific literature. The International Narcotics Control Board expressed concern that CHADD is actively lobbying for the use of Ritalin in children. http://brainwavecenter.com/library/dea/dea3.htm It has recently come to the attention of the DEA, that Ciba-Geigy (the manufacturer of the methylphenidate product marketed under the brand named …
[snipped for brevity] Could one substitute a political party such as Democrat, Republican, Liberal, Conservative, Green, Raving Loonie … for CHADD? No. Irrelevant.
Always a fight the ‘focus of awareness’, eh … Where shall we direct our gaze? I have ADD. Stimulants such as Ritalin, help to direct the focus of my attention. That’s what drugging kiddies is all about. )))) Cordially, RL
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi all… Is there a good site that has referral information on doctors who treat ADD/ADHD? Would be helpful if anyone knew a psychiatrist or psychologist, or both, in Phoenix Metro area, of Arizona? Well, you could start at www.chadd.org. http://namiscc.org/News/2002/Fall/DEAonRitalin.htm CHADD, non-profit organization, which promotes the use of Ritalin, also receives a great deal of money from the drug manufacturer of Ritalin. CHADD does not inform its members of the abuse problems of Ritalin. CHADD portrays the drug as a benign, mild stimulant that is not associated with abuse of serious side-effects. Statements by CHADD are inconsistent with scientific literature. The International Narcotics Control Board expressed concern that CHADD is actively lobbying for the use of Ritalin in children. http://brainwavecenter.com/library/dea/dea3.htm It has recently come to the attention of the DEA, that Ciba-Geigy (the manufacturer of the methylphenidate product marketed under the brand named Ritalin) contributed $748,000 to CHADD from 1991 to 1994. 26 The DEA has concerns that the depth of the financial relationship with the manufacturer was not well-known by the public, including CHADD members that have relied upon CHADD for guidance as it pertains to the diagnosis and treatment or their children. A recent communication from the United Nations International Narcotics Control Board (INCB), expressed concern about non-governmental organizations and parental associations in the United States that are actively lobbying for the medical use of methylphenidate for children with ADHD. The INCB further stated that "financial transfer from a pharmaceutical company with the purpose to promote sales of an internationally controlled substance would be identified as hidden advertisement and in contradiction with the provisions of the 1971 Convention (Article 10, para 2)." In 1993 and 1994 when Ciba-Geigy warned of an impending shortage of Ritalin, CHADD was active in having its members write their Congressional Representatives to complain about the situation. In letters to members and interviews with the media, CHADD officials also were active in perpetuating concerns that a shortage of Ritalin was imminent. The DEA received more than 135 inquiries from Congressional Representatives. In these communications, CHADD routinely referred to a "Ritalin shortage" as opposed to a "methylphenidate shortage." The relationship between Ciba-Geigy and CHADD raises serious concerns about CHADD’s motive in proselytizing the use of Ritalin through the use of the brand name as opposed to the generic name methylphenidate in its literature. In conjunction with the American Academy of Neurology, CHADD has submitted a petition to reschedule methylphenidate from Schedule II to Schedule III under the Controlled Substances Act. Ciba-Geigy stands to benefit from a change in scheduling of methylphenidate. However, CHADD denies that the financial contributions received from Ciba-Geigy have any relationship to the scheduling petition.
"The noblest of all dogs is the hot-dog; it feeds the hand that bites it." ~ Laurence J Peter ~
Response:
Question:
I’m aware of only Adderall. What other drugs are commonly prescribed? How do their effects compare to Adderall and what are the typical dosages of them? I posted this elsewhere, but I was just pprescribed Adderall but don’t like the idea of taking a habit forming drug. I’m just curious what other options are available and how effective they are.
First, most ADDers _wish_ that the meds would form an effing _habit_ so that we would quit forgetting to take them. Next, Adderall is one option. The most popular in the US at one time was methylphenidate (brand name "Ritalin"). Dextroamphetamine ("Dexedrine") also works for many people, as well as Desoxyn and I’m sure I’m forgetting another stimulant. There are variants on these with time release of various kinds, chiral purity, and other bells and whistles. Non-stimulants the two that are well known are bupropion (brand name Wellbutrin) and atomoxetine ("Strattera"). Some others have been tried with varying degrees of success. The main reason for the existence of Strattera IMO is the fear of stimulants induced by certain well-meaning crazies and misguided politicians–the side effects I experienced with it were terrible. I’ve had none to speak of with stimulants. Now as to what is effective, well, there’s no way to know for sure except to try them–different people respond differently and what works really well for one person may do absolutely nothing for another. — –John to email, dial "usenet" and validate (was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
Response:
Thanks Nancy for all the good info and cites. The OP should be on his way to a much better understanding of this stuff. Snip, but I’ll leave in some cites There’s an overview of the stimulant meds at: "Attention Deficit/Hyperactivity Disorder and Stimulant Therapy" http://www.webmd.com/content/article/89/100384.htm That article mentions the most common name brands of stimulants, but doesn’t mention the two versions of Focalin or the new Daytrana methylphenidate patch. Plus, there are generic versions of some of these medications too. There was a lot of excitement about the non-stimulant Strattera when it was introduced, but I think that it’s lost a lot of those early very high expectations, especially as doctors and patients have had more experience with both its relative benefits and its drawbacks.
The people who posted here about Stattera seemed to have really nasty side effects. That is anecdotal, of course. There’s an overview of non-stimulant meds here: "Non-stimulant therapy (Strattera) and other ADHD drugs" at http://www.webmd.com/content/article/89/100387.htm
(snip) Most people are like me. I’m not saying anything in response to that, being that everything that’s in my head doesn’t have to be posted to usenet. <VEG
Bwahaha! That came out *so* wrong!
Response:
I’m aware of only Adderall. What other drugs are commonly prescribed? How do their effects compare to Adderall and what are the typical dosages of them? I posted this elsewhere, but I was just pprescribed Adderall but don’t like the idea of taking a habit forming drug. I’m just curious what other options are available and how effective they are.
Most ADD meds are stimulants like Adderall, Ritalin (methylphedidate), dexedrine, etc. They are somewhat similar to caffiene, except cleaner (less jitters for most people) and not addictive when taken as prescribed. There are some non-stimulant meds now, but I don’t know much about them. Hopefully someone else will pipe up. Adderall is not addictive for most people when taken as prescribed (like practically never). People sometimes take way too much or snort it or inhale it to get high, and then it is quite addictive. But when you take your prescribed dose you are very, very unlikely to ever get addicted. I understand your worries – I am an addictive personality (quitting smoking was hell), and I worried too when I started methylphenidate. But I have been taking it for several years and I’ve never even raised my dose. I forget to take it – or whether I *have* taken it. I don’t feel it in my body. Most people are like me.
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m aware of only Adderall. What other drugs are commonly prescribed? How do their effects compare to Adderall and what are the typical dosages of them? I posted this elsewhere, but I was just pprescribed Adderall but don’t like the idea of taking a habit forming drug. I’m just curious what other options are available and how effective they are. Most ADD meds are stimulants like Adderall, Ritalin (methylphedidate), dexedrine, etc.
And Focalin. And all of the above now come in both regular and long-acting versions. They are somewhat similar to caffiene, except cleaner (less jitters for most people) and not addictive when taken as prescribed. There are some non-stimulant meds now, but I don’t know much about them. Hopefully someone else will pipe up.
Methylphenidate is still considered "the gold standard"–the first line choice in treatment–for ADHD, according to a doctor I’ve spoken with about the different ADHD meds. There’s an overview of the stimulant meds at: "Attention Deficit/Hyperactivity Disorder and Stimulant Therapy" http://www.webmd.com/content/article/89/100384.htm That article mentions the most common name brands of stimulants, but doesn’t mention the two versions of Focalin or the new Daytrana methylphenidate patch. Plus, there are generic versions of some of these medications too. There was a lot of excitement about the non-stimulant Strattera when it was introduced, but I think that it’s lost a lot of those early very high expectations, especially as doctors and patients have had more experience with both its relative benefits and its drawbacks. There’s an overview of non-stimulant meds here: "Non-stimulant therapy (Strattera) and other ADHD drugs" at http://www.webmd.com/content/article/89/100387.htm Adderall is not addictive for most people when taken as prescribed (like practically never). People sometimes take way too much or snort it or inhale it to get high, and then it is quite addictive. But when you take your prescribed dose you are very, very unlikely to ever get addicted. I understand your worries – I am an addictive personality (quitting smoking was hell), and I worried too when I started methylphenidate. But I have been taking it for several years and I’ve never even raised my dose. I forget to take it – or whether I *have* taken it. I don’t feel it in my body.
If stimulants when taken as prescribed were addictive, I doubt if as many ADHDers would frequently forget to take their meds, as so many reportedly do. Not too many addicts forget their fix. There are a growing number of studies which explain why stimulants, which can be highly addictive when snorted or injected, aren’t likely to become addictive when taken orally (at least in the amounts prescribed for the treatment of ADHD.) The doctor who’s leading the research in the area of stimulant addiction is Dr. Nora D. Volkow if anyone is interested in reading her research. Most people are like me.
I’m not saying anything in response to that, being that everything that’s in my head doesn’t have to be posted to usenet. <VEG Nancy Unique, like everyone else
Response:
I’m aware of only Adderall. What other drugs are commonly prescribed? How do their effects compare to Adderall and what are the typical dosages of them? I posted this elsewhere, but I was just pprescribed Adderall but don’t like the idea of taking a habit forming drug. I’m just curious what other options are available and how effective they are. Thanks.
Response:
I’m aware of only Adderall. What other drugs are commonly prescribed? How do their effects compare to Adderall and what are the typical dosages of them? I posted this elsewhere, but I was just pprescribed Adderall but don’t like the idea of taking a habit forming drug. I’m just curious what other options are available and how effective they are. Thanks.
http://add.about.com/cs/othertreatment/a/dramentreatment.htm Treatment Programs for the six subtypes of ADD. The following treatment guidelines are provided by Dr. Amen and should be used as a general guideline. All medical treatment should be monitored by your own physician. Please be sure to consult with your physician before beginning any exercise, herbal program or any other medical program. ADD Type:Classic ADD Diet:higher protein, lower carbohydrate Exercise: intense aerobic Herbal Supplements:L-tyrosine, grape seed or pine bark Medications:Stimulants such as Adderall, Ritalin, Dexedrine, and Cylert EEG Biofeedback:Enhance beta and suppress theta over the prefrontal area ADD Type:Inattentive ADD Diet:higher protein, lower carbohydrate Exercise: intense aerobic Herbal Supplements:L-tyrosine, grape seed or pine bark Medications:Stimulants such as Adderall, Ritalin, Dexedrine, and Cylert EEG Biofeedback:Enhance beta and suppress theta over the prefrontal area ADD Type:Overfocused ADD Diet:higher protein, lower carbohydrate Exercise: intense aerobic Herbal Supplements:St. John’s Wort. 5-HTP, L-tryptophan, Inositol with L-tryrosine Medications:Serotonin enhancing meds such as Effexor, Zoloft, Paxil, Prozac, or Luxox, may also need a stimulant EEG Biofeedback:enhance alpha over the cingulate gyrus ADD Type:Temporal Lobe ADD Diet:higher protein, lower carbohydrate Exercise: intense aerobic Herbal Supplements:GABA, gingko biloba, phosphytidal serine, Vitamin E, Piracetam Medications:Anticonvulsants such as Depakote, Carbatrol, Neurontin, Topamax, Lamictal, Gabatril, Dilantin EEG Biofeedback:enhance SMR and suppress theta over the affected temporal lobe ADD Type:Limbic ADD Diet:higher protein, lower carbohydrate Exercise: intense aerobic Herbal Supplements:DL-phenylalanine, L-tyrosine, SAMe Medications:Stimulating antidepressants (Norpramin, Wellbutrin,) EEG Biofeedback:enhance beta and suppress theta over the left prefrontal area ADD Type:Ring of Fire ADD Diet:higher protein, lower carbohydrate Exercise: intense aerobic Herbal Supplements:GABA, Omega 3 Fatty Acids Medications:Either anticonvulsants as lister in type 4 or the new antipsychotic medications such as Risperdal or Zyprexa parietal and lateral prefrontal areas and high alpha over the anterior cingulate
Response:
Question:
Psycholobabble… [thanks to Marvin, an excellent valuation of the DSM-IV]. The entity *somatization disorder* is psychobabble and is obtained from the
< plagiarized material snipped Marvin who, Jan? Published where, Jan? "Thanks to Marvin" is not an attribution unless your audience is familiar with Marvin and his work. Did this "Marvin" give you permission to post his article? Do you even know who "Marvin" is? You are a thief, Jan. Stop stealing the property of others. — –Rich Recommended websites: http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles http://www.acahf.org.au http://www.quackwatch.org/ http://www.skeptic.com/ http://www.csicop.org/
Response:
Twin Res Hum Genet. 2005 Aug;8(4):392-401. Related Articles, Links Erratum in: Twin Res Hum Genet. 2005 Oct;8(5):542. Estimation of prevalence of DSM-IV and latent class-defined ADHD subtypes in a population-based sample of child and adolescent twins. Neuman RJ, Sitdhiraksa N, Reich W, Ji TH, Joyner CA, Sun LW, Todd RD. Department of Psychiatry, Washington University School of Medicine, St. The goal of this study is to determine the prevalence and age of onset of Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders and latent class-derived attention deficit/hyperactivity disorder (ADHD) subtypes in a population-based twin sample of boys and girls. Missouri birth records identified families with a twin pair 7 to 18 years of age. Telephone screening interviews for ADHD symptoms were completed for 5007 families. Diagnostic assessments were administered to 564 families with at least one twin meeting screening criteria, plus 183 control families. Prevalence and age of onset for both ADHD nosologies were calculated by sex and zygosity from parent report data. The prevalence of any DSM-IV ADHD was 6.2% overall, 7.4% in boys and 3.9% in girls. The inattentive subtype was most common in boys; the combined subtype was most common in girls. The mean age of onset of symptoms in children with any DSM-IV ADHD was 3.5 years, with no significant differences between boys and girls. Prevalences of latent class defined ADHD subtypes also varied by sex with the severe inattentive and combined classes more common in boys than girls. The age of onset of symptoms did not differ between boys and girls but were higher than in the DSM-IV subtypes. Findings in this twin sample showed that clinically significant ADHD, defined by either DSM-IV or latent class criterion, has an early age of onset and is more common in boys than girls. As clinical samples are most commonly composed of male combined subtypes, the inattentive subtype of both sexes in the general population is an under-treated segment of the general population. Publication Types: Twin Study PMID: 16176725 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Twin Res Hum Genet. 2005 Aug;8(4):392-401. Related Articles, Links Erratum in: Twin Res Hum Genet. 2005 Oct;8(5):542. Estimation of prevalence of DSM-IV and latent class-defined ADHD subtypes in a population-based sample of child and adolescent twins. Neuman RJ, Sitdhiraksa N, Reich W, Ji TH, Joyner CA, Sun LW, Todd RD. Department of Psychiatry, Washington University School of Medicine, St. The goal of this study is to determine the prevalence and age of onset of Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders and latent class-derived attention deficit/hyperactivity disorder (ADHD) subtypes in a population-based twin sample of boys and girls. Missouri birth records identified families with a twin pair 7 to 18 years of age. Telephone screening interviews for ADHD symptoms were completed for 5007 families. Diagnostic assessments were administered to 564 families with at least one twin meeting screening criteria, plus 183 control families. Prevalence and age of onset for both ADHD nosologies were calculated by sex and zygosity from parent report data. The prevalence of any DSM-IV ADHD was 6.2% overall, 7.4% in boys and 3.9% in girls. The inattentive subtype was most common in boys; the combined subtype was most common in girls. The mean age of onset of symptoms in children with any DSM-IV ADHD was 3.5 years, with no significant differences between boys and girls. Prevalences of latent class defined ADHD subtypes also varied by sex with the severe inattentive and combined classes more common in boys than girls. The age of onset of symptoms did not differ between boys and girls but were higher than in the DSM-IV subtypes. Findings in this twin sample showed that clinically significant ADHD, defined by either DSM-IV or latent class criterion, has an early age of onset and is more common in boys than girls. As clinical samples are most commonly composed of male combined subtypes, the inattentive subtype of both sexes in the general population is an under-treated segment of the general population. Publication Types: Twin Study PMID: 16176725 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
Psycholobabble… [thanks to Marvin, an excellent valuation of the DSM-IV]. The entity *somatization disorder* is psychobabble and is obtained from the DSM-IV manual and is used by psychologists and psychiatrists.MD’s have borrowed the entity for their own uses. It is a spurious diagnosis with no laboratory indicators. that somatization disorder is a kind of junk category into which physicians dump patients presenting with mind/behaviorialsymptoms and/or a history of such which the physician does not fancy or understand, especially if the patient does not present with symptoms or symptoms which are not separate diagnoses (also anon-scientific way of separating symptoms and causality) . I mentiont his because mercury and lead are both known to cause primarily "psychiatric" symptoms, with a history of emotional instability, etc.in patients. So a "scientist" is someone who makes "a priori" judgements about what neurological symptoms a heavy metal poisoned patient can and cannot have. A "scientist" demands laboratory indicators whenever his fraternity does so. When the fraternity does not do so, the esteemed scientist Rx’s Prozac like *mad*. But if the patient’s complaints appear in some kind of package which don’t meet the prejudices of the male clinician/voodoo doctor, then it’s necessary to pull out theDSM-IV manual and wax on about scientific discipline and create from thin air a "somatization disorder". It’s just another way of saying that one can create a loose definition of a nebulous condition and then stretch it to label anything which appears bizarre, so that rather than actually diagnose and solve problems you can dump the ones you don’t like into the recycle bin andlet the DSM-IV manual thumpers profit from the stash. That way everybody is happy. The male voodoo doctor gets to see himself as a scientist and the psych therapist gets another client. I believe that SD is used by doctors who do not like the idea that conditiions which affect the brain cause certain mental states and behaviors which are not in keeping with their own requirements for how disease is supposed to manifest in the human body. I believe the medical profession has an alliance with the psych profession because they share a common belief system. No, the starting point is to go back to college and unlearn the psychobabble taught to physicians in med school. But that cannot be done–with all the psychological investments involved in the career and selfhood and one’s supremecy of being–so instead one wages war on the Chronic Fatigue, Fibromyalgia, and Multiple Chemical Sensitivitysyndromes, since these syndromes are diseases of both body and brain,in which affective disorders are documented in all three. But since the Freudian-psychobabble-educated physician suffers cognitivedissonance when presented with these, the syndromes must be attacked. Continuing education is not an option. Instead, reality must be shaped to fit the psychological needs of the profession, and the patients need to be hazed. So rather than counsel with a psychotherapist over issues of selfhood and megalomania and deep insecurity which interfere with the process of continuing education–which is also the scientific process itself–it is necessary to reformulate these disease syndromes so that they fit into the 20th-century mind-body conceptual dualism taught to physicians, in which brain diseases are separate from diseases of thebody and mind states are separate from both. This needs to be done despite the fact that poisons such as lead and mercury have been known for 100 years to poison the brain, body, and mind all at the same time. So Science needs to be bent and manipulated to serve a profession which maintains a conceputal framework which is not rooted in Science, and those teachings must be maintained for those sychologically inclined to conservatism and intellectual dominance,all properly wrapped in the impressive rhetoric of scientific and clinical objectivity. A lot of your responses are flak garbage which you use to exhaust pariticpants. I made my position perfectly clear. Decades of psychobiological research, including century-long scientfically acquired knowledge on the effect of poisons such as heavy metals on the brain, show that mood and mental states can and do derive fromorganic origins. Meanwhile state-credentialed MD’s are writing books and articles about how biological psychiatry is "pseudoscience", a"myth", and a "fraud". On *this* subject the present generation is corrupt, and is not going to give up its intellectual commitment to the psychobabble it received in med school. On the issue of MCS, ascribing "affective disorders" to "psychologicalf actors" is an opinion which is rammed through as Science. It is accompanied by dismissive descriptions of mind states and behavior of the patients, with all kinds of unscientific judgements andassumptions as to 1) whether those mind states and behavior arelegitimate (e.g. fear of chemicals, stress of chronic illness), and 2)whether the mind states and behavior have an organic or non-organic origin. MCS *will* receive a fair hearing only when the medical profession gives up its intellecutal commitment to the teachings of psychology as the only explanation for how mind states and behavior alter with disease. You asked me for evidence of "mind-body conceptual dualism" and I just gave an example from a psychobabbling physician in this thread. Your technique is to bait and throw out idiotic flak, so that now we can have a separate existential debate as to whether there really is adualistic mind-body conception in modern medicine. Yes, physicians do recognize a connection between the two–they call it somatization disorder. That is, your boyfriend broke up with you and you are self-pitiful due to your past child raising and have along history of maladaptive behaviors and you have sunken into depression and can’t concentrate and now your immunity has sunk and now you have an infection etc etc. They may *also* talk about a"psychological component" as being the result of chronic stress from the illness. But the medical profession is selective about when the connection operates in one direction vs. the other. The fact is, there isn’t an economy for the problem of chronic mercury and lead exposure causing maladaptive dysfunctional unhealthy minds and behaviors. Not because the science doesn’t exist to support it. But because the economy doesn’t exist to produce the professional intellect to study, talk about, and treat it. The psychotherapists and psychologists would be in less demand. There would be no drugs to patent. Hence the facts are dropped from consciousness. That mercury and lead f**k up people’s emotions and minds (in addition to a hundred other symptoms) is so dropped out of consciousness that MD’s can write books that argue that Biological Psychiatry is a fraud. As a result, one must conclude that MCS is not caused by poisons–which just about everyone who has the illness and has clinical experience treating it argues–but rather is a somatization disorder. This is how economy and professional cultures distort reality and allow ingrained assumptions and bias to manipulate and distort the process of scientific inquiry. No, many physicians recognize that they are often dealing with illnesses that involve both the mind & the body. It would seem as if you are attributing their admission of this fact to some sort of denial instead. Incorrect. But commonly the same conclusion that some … read more »
Response:
Question:
Exactly.
Repost, sorry. (BTW, I also posted as aha! earlier) Just wanted to let you know I think your idea for dealing with toxic people is great, and you’ve inspired me to do the same. I’m not supposed to be spending as much time on line as I did today, but a little show of solidarity never hurts. marcia
PS: For those of you who wish to re-inforce the DELUSIONS of the lying anonymous stalking filth Marcia/Deleted/Soyouknow/SheerHypocrisy/Nowyouknow/(Fake)Kali, TheOtherKali/"It" who has cyberstalked me into ASAD, SPP, News.groups, Soc-net-people, and ASD-med, via stealth….she’s bipolar. So what? That tells you what, exactly? If you think it means my perspective is invalid, or that *I’m* delusional, you’re wrong. First, I have bipolar II disorder, which some around here will know means I don’t have full-blown, psychotic mania. Second, I take medication, which tends to give me a pretty firm grasp on reality, which is more than I can say for you. I suspect I won’t need to point out the irony of Linda Gore trying to stigmatize someone for being mentally ill. You’re lucky mental health laws have changed, or you’d be spending the rest of *your* life on some chronic back ward in a State hospital somewhere (like Nevada, maybe). There’s a good chance you’ll deteriorate to that point, anyway. Third, I’ve had an assisted epiphany about dealing with you, and have decided to impose the Usenet Death Penalty on you for crimes against humanity. May you rest in pieces.** **note to the Archiver: no actual violence is being threatened or implied.
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have offered Jan and Ilena to end this war on more than one occasion. Neither have accepted. <snipped Thus, as of tomorrow, the 230th Anniversary of the Declaration of Independence, Ilena Rosenthal and Jan Drew are subject to Usenet Death Penalty. May they Rest in Perfidy. Agreed. May we all enjoy our independence from those who desire continual discord. Kitten
In the den of liars.
Response:
Now she’s adding ‘correction’ to her drama queen puking….. Sheesh!
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – CORRECTION: I have no doubt that Barrett and Polevoy would give me the ‘death penalty’ if they found me. Polevoy is especially frightening and insane, in my opinion. He went so far as to send crying, whining letters to my attorneys claiming I ‘ruined his life.’ This from a man whose life is about destroying others … mine included. Did he not believe that my attorneys know that he wants to win and me lose???? Pathetic. Some months EARLIER , he was prancing around Usenet calling himself "Vera" and harassing me and Dr. Clark … another of his targets. See: www.BreastImplantAwareness.org/QuackbustersVsIlena.htm which will reveal that this case started with his maniacal campaign against an alternative talk show host, Ms Christine McPhee. He is also on a rampage against a young man named Adam Dreamhealer … posting blogs and defamation against him … trying to destroy his life and reputation. The recent torrents from Penley Ayers posting her hallucinations about my sexual and personal life in an obvious attempt to find out if I am living alone or with my husband was concerning to my legal team and my loved ones. If Polevoy eliminated me … it could save him from joining Barrett and Chris Grell in losing against me … and several hundred thousand dollars in legal fees. www.BreastImplantAwareness.org/QuackbustersVsIlena.htm www.BreastImplantAwareness.org/QuackWatchWatch.htm www.BreastImplantAwareness.org/PropagandistProbert.html www.BreastImplantAwareness.org/blog.htm
Response:
Perfidy Probert … why don’t you tell your fans how you the NY Law Fund had to pay 6 of your disgruntled clients because of your
Gosh Ilena, did your Daddy have to cough up some money to the victim on his fraud charge? Did his estate pay the IRS the $15,000+ he owed in back taxes too? Public record……
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have offered Jan and Ilena to end this war on more than one occasion. Neither have accepted. <snipped Thus, as of tomorrow, the 230th Anniversary of the Declaration of Independence, Ilena Rosenthal and Jan Drew are subject to Usenet Death Penalty. May they Rest in Perfidy. Agreed. May we all enjoy our independence from those who desire continual discord. Kitten In the den of liars.
Speaking of filthy little liars marcia/Deleted/soyouknow/sheerhypocrisy/Kali/TheOtherKali/Nowyouknow/IT/AHA /dedge is a seriously mentally ill psych patient with bipolar disorder…who thus far, has cyberstalked me into the following 5 ngs: ASAD, SPP, News.groups, Soc.net-people, ASD-med Newsgroups: alt.astronomy,alt.support.attn-deficit,rec.running,sci.med,misc.writing NNTP-Posting-Host: 65.24.239.69 Newsgroups: alt.support.attn-deficit Deficit Disorder and OCD/Anxiety/Panic Disorder Organization: http://groups.google.com Lines: 84 NNTP-Posting-Host: 65.24.239.69 Newsgroups: alt.support.attn-deficit pharmaceutical marketeers, convicted child molesters, porn king, disbarred lawyer, S & M afficionado, and their mentally ill supporters and apologists publicly TORTURE innocent people in global forums? Organization: http://groups.google.com Lines: 13 NNTP-Posting-Host: 65.24.239.69 Newsgroups: alt.support.attn-deficit yadda… Organization: http://groups.google.com Lines: 25 NNTP-Posting-Host: 65.24.239.69 Newsgroups: sci.psychology.psychotherapy Organization: http://groups.google.com Lines: 4 NNTP-Posting-Host: 65.24.239.69 I’ve been gone awhile and have returned to so many new faces! I notice one really surprising change. No sign of Linda Gore. Whatever happened to her? Newsgroups: sci.psychology.psychotherapy NNTP-Posting-Host: 65.24.239.69 Newsgroups: sci.psychology.psychotherapy Organization: http://groups.google.com Lines: 28 NNTP-Posting-Host: 65.24.239.69 Newsgroups: news.groups Organization: http://groups.google.com Lines: 10 NNTP-Posting-Host: 65.24.239.69 Linda Gore (who posts under this name), Sue Me For Posting Facts, and her various nyms is stalking, harassing, and making paranoid and defamatory accusations against innocent people. She has been doing this for years. Is there *anything* that can be done about it? Can Google Groups suspend a person’s posting priveledges on Usenet, or is it a free-for-all? It doesn’t seem like action is taken when you report abuse. Newsgroups: soc.net-people defamatory messages about people all over the internet. She will research and post your real name. Check the headers. Organization: http://groups.google.com Lines: 8 NNTP-Posting-Host: 65.24.239.69 Interact with this person at your own risk. If you cross her she’ll accuse you of stalking her using sock puppets and forming predatory cliques designed to bully and intimidate her. Check all the messages she’s posted in this forum (unless she pulls them in response to this post). If you’re not on Google Groups, she has filled approximately two pages with accusations against various people, some of whom are her former friends. No one is safe from this person.
Response:
www.BreastImplantAwareness.org/QuackWatchWatch.htm www.BreastImplantAwareness.org/PropagandistProbert.html www.BreastImplantAwareness.org/blog.htm
First of all I never made such a ‘purchase’. You only made that up. Second, I was indeed doing internet research on "Pandora’s Products" a San Diego registered business in the names of you and your business partner (Anthony Zaffuto)……when I discovered a product called Pandora’s Box (which you deny receiving commissions from). Well, based on the similarities would naturally assume a close association. As everyone is aware from his background, Zaffuto has produced several ‘instruction’ books and video tapes after he ran a ‘boys ranch for troubled youth’. His books/videos include one amazing instructional for boys to learn male masturbation. (One can only assume the type of ‘therapy’ the troubled boys received……) Here is a link to some of his other videos http://www.videolearning.com/vllx.php?opt=browsrch&chapsect=3803 Complete Guide to Oral Lovemaking Complete guide to Sex Toys and Devices Complete Guide to Sexual Positions all by Dr. Anthony Zaffuto, Ph.D. 60 min. $29.95
Response:
HEADERS TRIMMED TO ASAD ONLY – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have offered Jan and Ilena to end this war on more than one occasion. Neither have accepted. <snipped Thus, as of tomorrow, the 230th Anniversary of the Declaration of Independence, Ilena Rosenthal and Jan Drew are subject to Usenet Death Penalty. May they Rest in Perfidy. Agreed. May we all enjoy our independence from those who desire continual discord.
Thank goodness for filters…which keep getting bigger as the names change…. UDP is a great idea….just be ready for "zombies" as names change to avoid filters ( I have seen them in other places) Buny " Nobody realizes that some people expend tremendous energy merely to be normal." ~ Albert Camus
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I have offered Jan and Ilena to end this war on more than one occasion. Neither have accepted. Jan has clearly said: The peace must come from you. Your LIES and postings with FAKE names show you are DESPICABLE. [Happy anniversary to me. Then you post as Freddie. It was NOT your wife who e-mailed me. It was YOU] You have repeatedly LIED. Your so-called *peace offer* was also FAKE. Posted for the sole reason, you wanted the websites which are a result of your behavior and LIES…to disappear. If YOU want peace. STOP LYING. Stop accusing others of what YOU yourself are guilty of. Change your despicable behavior. Sadly this behavior IS why you were disbarred. STOP these newsgroups for your insane need to argue. Clearly, with Jan’s standard of accusing and anyone with whom she disagrees of lying, since she does not understand what a lie it,
Thanks for showing, YOU do NOT want peace. Poor DTABOR. it would be impossible for me to "stop lying" unless I either 1) stopped posting and/or 2) merely posted, "Yes Jan, you are correct."
Yes. Finally…you got it correct. Now..for the proof. You chose to LIE.. and LIE …and LIE.
Fri, Jun 23 2006 [Subject title. All ADHD meds are not the same..] That is real. I offered you and Ilena a mutual cease fire, no conditions, and you and she slapped the same condition on it. I replied: Sat, Jun 24 2006 No conditions? Just EXACTLY is this * cease fire* you offered?
Mon, Jun 26 2006 Addressing only the substantive issues in posts, including the biases of the authors of articles that are posted. Period. My reply: So…you refuse to post your ceasefire. Why is that, Mark? You stated the below in this thread. *That is real. I offered you and Ilena a mutual cease fire, no conditions, and you and she slapped the same condition on it.* Wed, Jun 28 2006
Oh, I see…you asked "Just EXACTLY is this * cease fire* you offered?" when you meant to ask "Just EXACTLY where is this * cease fire* you offered?" You should be more clear. It is in the archives. Look it up. Easy to see why he refused.. again. I did look it up. http://groups.google.com/group/misc.health.alternative/msg/5dc4c69029… Tues, Feb 8 2005 If they can do it, why can’t we? Israel, Palestinians Declare Ceasefire http://groups.google.com/group/misc.health.alternative/msg/17a05b4c76… Look at the first message in this thread. It is your choice to emulate the Palestinians and Israelis, What is you choice? Commence declaring Ceasefire. RIGHT NOW. http://groups.google.com/group/misc.health.alternative/msg/07e38a462c… Fri, Feb 11 2005 When you stop, I stop, not before. Ceasfire? 1 Mark Probert Feb 12 2005 http://groups.google.com/group/misc.health.alternative/msg/78eb9b427f… Jan, if you want a ceasfire, act like it. I am tired of being the first to turn the other cheek and being trashed by your and Ilena. My offer, like that between Abbas and Sharon, was unconditional. My next offer will be conditional. Your choice. Choose peace. == All should be able to see [as shown above]I already did on Feb 10 2005. http://groups.google.com/group/misc.health.alternative/msg/5f0e54e999…, Feb 13 2005 You didn’t make an offer, you posted a question, so all can see you are lying AGAIN.
To any intelligent being, it was an offer. That is sufficiently clear. You did not make an offer. You posted a question. == Now..here is Mark Probert telling a whopper lie. http://groups.google.com/group/misc.health.alternative/msg/2b208c112a… Feb 11 2005, 2:11 pm YOU are fully responsible for Ilena contacting my wife who is not a participant in usenet. http://groups.google.com/group/misc.health.alternative/msg/5f0e54e999… Sent : Saturday, February 12, 2005 12:27 PM Subject : Re: New Website Exposes Ilena Rosenthal and the Humantics Foundation | | | Inbox MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: from mail.lumbercartel.com ([162.42.126.18]) by mc3-f38.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Sat, 12 Feb 2005 09:28:17 -0800 Received: from mproxy.googlegroups.com ([216.239.56.131])by mail.lumbercartel.com with esmtp (Exim 4.43)id 1D0145-0006r1-2qfor Received: by mproxy.googlegroups.com with SMTP id s51so1012553cwc for Received: by 10.11.88.27 with SMTP id l27mr71314cwb; Sat, 12 Feb 2005 09:27:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from 64.12.116.136 by f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com with HTTP; Sat, That IP address resolves to: Search results for: 64.12.116.136 OrgName: America Online, Inc. OrgID: AMERIC-158 Address: 10600 Infantry Ridge Road City: Manassas StateProv: VA PostalCode: 20109 Country: US Therefore, you sent it. Search results for: 152.163.100.136 OrgName: America Online OrgID: AOL Address: 22000 AOL Way City: Dulles StateProv: VA PostalCode: 20166 Country: US http://groups.google.com/group/alt.support.breast-implant/msg/9645079… Feb 13 2005, 1:19 pm An additional note: Should you email me again I will construe that to be a withdrawal of your request that not email you, and I will, when I deem it appropriate, email you. Neither is going to happen. Further, Ilena has flatly refused refused to even consider peace.
Further, here is your Peace Offer. [the one you LIED about REPEATEDLY and stated: Unconditional] http://groups.google.com/group/alt.support.breast-implant/msg/c74c400… I will, as of this posting, Wednesday, March 16, 2005, at 4:20 PM EST, unconditionally cease and desist from posting to Ilena, about Ilena or in response to Ilena. I hope that you, who have been a supporter of hers, will now move and directly ask her to do the same thing. Further, if she ceases her actions towards me, I will render the posts in the Fan Club unreadable. If she removes any and all webpages regarding me and/or my family, the Fan Club will cease to exist. == Still claiming.. I don’t understand what a lie is? http://groups.google.com/group/misc.health.alternative/msg/5dc4c69029… Tues, Feb 8 2005 If they can do it, why can’t we? Israel, Palestinians Declare Ceasefire == There IS the question. NOT an offer. Still claiming I don’t understand what a lie is? http://groups.google.com/group/misc.health.alternative/msg/5f0e54e999…, Feb 13 2005 You didn’t make an offer, you posted a question, so all can see you are lying AGAIN.
To any intelligent being, it was an offer. === You are not an intelligent being. In fact, she has demonstrated that she will continue her relentless attacks even when she gets her answers. Thus, with her, there is no peace.
There WAS never any peace from..YOU, Mark! The ONLY solution to this is to impose a modified (modified in the sense that it is not done with software or for spamming) Usenet Death Penalty. They are Usenet polluters, polluting Usenet with their bile.
Like yours. See above. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usenet_Death_Penalty where no one, under any circumstances, respond to any of their messages, for any reason. If they post something that needs to be refuted, commencing a new thread without reference to them, would be proper.
LOLOLOL!! Now where have I seen this before! Oh..YES. From Richard H Jacobson. Who IS a proven liar. If everyone signs on to this, they will be left like a junk yard dog, barking at passing cars that do not care about them. To be truly effective, everyone should either explicitly or implicitly sign on to this. Thus, as of tomorrow, the 230th Anniversary of the Declaration of Independence, Ilena Rosenthal and Jan Drew are subject to Usenet Death Penalty. May they Rest in Perfidy.
Hot Doggies!! Mark’s decision comes at an expected time. Right.. AFTER he is BUSTED. [so shook up he posted to alt.support.breast-implant..twice!] From your link: Passive: with a passive UDP, messages that fall under the UDP will simply be ignored and will not spread. Oops. There goes that plan. DTABOR. Whayagonnado, Mark. Post under another FAKE name? Freddie.
Response:
Now she’s adding ‘correction’ to her drama queen puking….. Sheesh!
If she’s the drama queen, then why is it Probert who is posting make believe proclamations of her Death to really stir the pot?
Response:
Respond with a laundry list of sins. What an ass!
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Perfidy Probert … why don’t you tell your fans how you the NY Law Fund had to pay 6 of your disgruntled clients because of your Gosh Ilena, did your Daddy have to cough up some money to the victim on his fraud charge? Did his estate pay the IRS the $15,000+ he owed in back taxes too? Public record……
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have offered Jan and Ilena to end this war on more than one occasion. Neither have accepted. <snipped Thus, as of tomorrow, the 230th Anniversary of the Declaration of Independence, Ilena Rosenthal and Jan Drew are subject to Usenet Death Penalty. May they Rest in Perfidy. Agreed. May we all enjoy our independence from those who desire continual discord. Exactly. You’ve inspired me.
You are easy to inspire. aha! OrgName: Road Runner HoldCo LLC OrgID: RRMA Address: 13241 Woodland Park Road City: Herndon StateProv: VA PostalCode: 20171 Country: US ThePsyko Path: g2news2.google.com!news4.google.com!news.glorb.com!news-out.octanews.net!in digo.octanews.net!authen.yellow.readfreenews.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Newsgroups: sci.psychology.psychotherapy Organization: None User-Agent: Xnews/5.04.25 X-face: X-mouseover: OnNekkidEvent() X-Wife: bitch, bitch, bitch X-Dickless: Brad J (STALKER!!) X-Pathetic-Kidnapper: Archangel X-AHM-Spankard: Too many to list here LOL!! X-Lits: Fin X-tra-Helping-Of: bacon please X-pedite: The weekend X-plane: why? it’s not even spelled right!! X-Fuckhead: Nope, not ex.. still a usenet fuckhead and damn proud of it X-cuse: I have mad cow disease X-Props: To the regs of AHM for helping to expose sick fuck pedos everywhere Lines: 30 X-Trace: Sheerhypocrisy/Kali/TheOtherKali/It/Aha/Psyko – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have no doubt that Barrett and Polevoy would give me the ‘death penalty’ if they found me. Polevoy is especially frightening and insane, in my opinion. He went so far as to send crying, whining letters to my attorneys claiming I ‘ruined his life.’ This from a man whose life is about destroying others … mine included. Did he not believe that my attorneys know that he wants to win and me lose???? Pathetic. Some months later, he was prancing around Usenet calling himself "Vera" and harassing me and Dr. Clark … another of his targets. See: www.BreastImplantAwareness.org/QuackbustersVsIlena.htm which will reveal that this case started with his maniacal campaign against an alternative talk show host, Ms Christine McPhee. He is also on a rampage against a young man named Adam Dreamhealer … posting blogs and defamation against him … trying to destroy his life and reputation. The recent torrents from Penley Ayers posting her hallucinations about my sexual and personal life in an obvious attempt to find out if I am living alone or with my husband was concerning to my legal team and my loved ones.
Dear God you are too funny! Hey, your sex life is what you have publicized via your own documented promotions: First of all I never made such a ‘purchase’. You only made that up. Second, I was indeed doing internet research on "Pandora’s Products" a San Diego registered business in the names of you and your business partner (Anthony Zaffuto)……when I discovered a product called Pandora’s Box (which you deny receiving commissions from). Well, based on the similarities would naturally assume a close association. As everyone is aware from his background, Zaffuto has produced several ‘instruction’ books and video tapes after he ran a ‘boys ranch for troubled youth’. His books/videos include one amazing instructional for boys to learn male masturbation. (One can only assume the type of ‘therapy’ the troubled boys received……) Here is a link to some of his other videos http://www.videolearning.com/vllx.php?opt=browsrch&chapsect=3803 Complete Guide to Oral Lovemaking Complete guide to Sex Toys and Devices Complete Guide to Sexual Positions all by Dr. Anthony Zaffuto, Ph.D. 60 min. $29.95 If Polevoy eliminated me … it could save him from joining Barrett and Chris Grell in losing against me … and several hundred thousand dollars in legal fees.
What a drama queen…..
Response:
Peace Probert YOU believe you are in a position to offer me peace
You do not understand. I am not offering you anything. I do not care what you do. As of 12:01AM EDT tomorrow, AFAIC, you have passed on. You can rant and rave, call me what you wish, but, you no longer exist. The exact same thing applies to Jan. If you post something of substance that I want to comment on, I will start a new thread and have no reference to you. You are subject to a UDP.
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have offered Jan and Ilena to end this war on more than one occasion. Neither have accepted. <snipped Thus, as of tomorrow, the 230th Anniversary of the Declaration of Independence, Ilena Rosenthal and Jan Drew are subject to Usenet Death Penalty. May they Rest in Perfidy. Agreed. May we all enjoy our independence from those who desire continual discord. Exactly.
You’ve inspired me.
Response:
Perfidy Probert … why don’t you tell your fans how you the NY Law Fund had to pay 6 of your disgruntled clients because of your
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – CORRECTION: I have no doubt that Barrett and Polevoy would give me the ‘death penalty’ if they found me. Polevoy is especially frightening and insane, in my opinion. He went so far as to send crying, whining letters to my attorneys claiming I ‘ruined his life.’ This from a man whose life is about destroying others … mine included. Did he not believe that my attorneys know that he wants to win and me lose???? Pathetic. Some months EARLIER , he was prancing around Usenet calling himself "Vera" and harassing me and Dr. Clark … another of his targets. See: www.BreastImplantAwareness.org/QuackbustersVsIlena.htm which will reveal that this case started with his maniacal campaign against an alternative talk show host, Ms Christine McPhee. He is also on a rampage against a young man named Adam Dreamhealer … posting blogs and defamation against him … trying to destroy his life and reputation. The recent torrents from Penley Ayers posting her hallucinations about my sexual and personal life in an obvious attempt to find out if I am living alone or with my husband was concerning to my legal team and my loved ones. If Polevoy eliminated me … it could save him from joining Barrett and Chris Grell in losing against me … and several hundred thousand dollars in legal fees.
IMO, cyberstalkers are forever coming up with new PLOYS to solicit yet another new round of aggression against the target(s) in the hope that one of their ploys will incite one of their psychotic of psychopathic minions to feel justified in doing the dirty deed. These make-believe net deaths/usenet death penalty’s are death wishes; therefore, are more concerning then most of the ruses they have employed to solicit aggression against targets. If you and Jan would like, I can email you info about elected representative who is interested in hearing from targets of gang stalking being made the recipient of ghoulish death wishes. etc. These death wishes are way out of line. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – www.BreastImplantAwareness.org/QuackbustersVsIlena.htm www.BreastImplantAwareness.org/QuackWatchWatch.htm www.BreastImplantAwareness.org/PropagandistProbert.html www.BreastImplantAwareness.org/blog.htm
Response:
I have offered Jan and Ilena to end this war on more than one occasion. Neither have accepted. <snipped Thus, as of tomorrow, the 230th Anniversary of the Declaration of Independence, Ilena Rosenthal and Jan Drew are subject to Usenet Death Penalty. May they Rest in Perfidy.
Agreed. May we all enjoy our independence from those who desire continual discord. Kitten
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have offered Jan and Ilena to end this war on more than one occasion. Neither have accepted. <snipped Thus, as of tomorrow, the 230th Anniversary of the Declaration of Independence, Ilena Rosenthal and Jan Drew are subject to Usenet Death Penalty. May they Rest in Perfidy. Agreed. May we all enjoy our independence from those who desire continual discord.
Exactly.
Response:
Another PLOY to solicit yet more aggression against you and Jan.. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – www.BreastImplantAwareness.org/QuackWatchWatch.htm www.BreastImplantAwareness.org/PropagandistProbert.html www.BreastImplantAwareness.org/blog.htm
Response:
I have no doubt that Barrett and Polevoy would give me the ‘death penalty’ if they found me. Polevoy is especially frightening and insane, in my opinion. He went so far as to send crying, whining letters to my attorneys claiming I ‘ruined his life.’ This from a man whose life is about destroying others … mine included. Did he not believe that my attorneys know that he wants to win and me lose???? Pathetic. Some months later, he was prancing around Usenet calling himself "Vera" and harassing me and Dr. Clark … another of his targets. See: www.BreastImplantAwareness.org/QuackbustersVsIlena.htm which will reveal that this case started with his maniacal campaign against an alternative talk show host, Ms Christine McPhee. He is also on a rampage against a young man named Adam Dreamhealer … posting blogs and defamation against him … trying to destroy his life and reputation. The recent torrents from Penley Ayers posting her hallucinations about my sexual and personal life in an obvious attempt to find out if I am living alone or with my husband was concerning to my legal team and my loved ones. If Polevoy eliminated me … it could save him from joining Barrett and Chris Grell in losing against me … and several hundred thousand dollars in legal fees. www.BreastImplantAwareness.org/QuackbustersVsIlena.htm www.BreastImplantAwareness.org/QuackWatchWatch.htm www.BreastImplantAwareness.org/PropagandistProbert.html www.BreastImplantAwareness.org/blog.htm
Response:
Peace Marla? Peace "Rosenthal Researcher" ? ? ? Disbarred atttorney, Probert YOU believe you are in a position to offer me peace while a member of the Rag-tag Posse of Snakeoil Vigilantes ???? Are you under some enormous delusion that if you stopped attacking me … Polevoy and all his shills in disguises would go away? Are you aware that although Polevoy cries on his website that I would not settle with him … thus we are on our way to the Supreme Court … that he was offered a "walk away" settlement … neither he nor I would win / neither he nor I would lose. Wouldn’t cost him a penny. He refused … now Myrl Jeffcoat as Will Ketcher has spent months harassing and libeling me while advertising his garbage. You went underground several times pretending you wanted "peace" while attacking me under other names … just like your buddy, Myrl Jeffcoat just did. www.BreastImplantAwareness.org/myrl.html You’re like one foot soldier in Iraq declaring ‘peace’ while the murders and attacks and tortures by US Marines etc. continues … You want attention for your impotent ‘peace’ rally … you got it. www.BreastImplantAwareness.org/QuackWatchWatch.htm www.BreastImplantAwareness.org/PropagandistProbert.html www.BreastImplantAwareness.org/blog.htm
Response:
CORRECTION: I have no doubt that Barrett and Polevoy would give me the ‘death penalty’ if they found me. Polevoy is especially frightening and insane, in my opinion. He went so far as to send crying, whining letters to my attorneys claiming I ‘ruined his life.’ This from a man whose life is about destroying others … mine included. Did he not believe that my attorneys know that he wants to win and me lose???? Pathetic. Some months EARLIER , he was prancing around Usenet calling himself "Vera" and harassing me and Dr. Clark … another of his targets. See: www.BreastImplantAwareness.org/QuackbustersVsIlena.htm which will reveal that this case started with his maniacal campaign against an alternative talk show host, Ms Christine McPhee. He is also on a rampage against a young man named Adam Dreamhealer … posting blogs and defamation against him … trying to destroy his life and reputation. The recent torrents from Penley Ayers posting her hallucinations about my sexual and personal life in an obvious attempt to find out if I am living alone or with my husband was concerning to my legal team and my loved ones. If Polevoy eliminated me … it could save him from joining Barrett and Chris Grell in losing against me … and several hundred thousand dollars in legal fees. www.BreastImplantAwareness.org/QuackbustersVsIlena.htm www.BreastImplantAwareness.org/QuackWatchWatch.htm www.BreastImplantAwareness.org/PropagandistProbert.html www.BreastImplantAwareness.org/blog.htm
Response:
I have offered Jan and Ilena to end this war on more than one occasion. Neither have accepted. Jan has clearly said: The peace must come from you. Your LIES and postings with FAKE names show you are DESPICABLE. [Happy anniversary to me. Then you post as Freddie. It was NOT your wife who e-mailed me. It was YOU] You have repeatedly LIED. Your so-called *peace offer* was also FAKE. Posted for the sole reason, you wanted the websites which are a result of your behavior and LIES…to disappear. If YOU want peace. STOP LYING. Stop accusing others of what YOU yourself are guilty of. Change your despicable behavior. Sadly this behavior IS why you were disbarred. STOP these newsgroups for your insane need to argue. Clearly, with Jan’s standard of accusing and anyone with whom she disagrees of lying, since she does not understand what a lie it, it would be impossible for me to "stop lying" unless I either 1) stopped posting and/or 2) merely posted, "Yes Jan, you are correct." Neither is going to happen. Further, Ilena has flatly refused refused to even consider peace. In fact, she has demonstrated that she will continue her relentless attacks even when she gets her answers. Thus, with her, there is no peace. The ONLY solution to this is to impose a modified (modified in the sense that it is not done with software or for spamming) Usenet Death Penalty. They are Usenet polluters, polluting Usenet with their bile. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usenet_Death_Penalty where no one, under any circumstances, respond to any of their messages, for any reason. If they post something that needs to be refuted, commencing a new thread without reference to them, would be proper. If everyone signs on to this, they will be left like a junk yard dog, barking at passing cars that do not care about them. To be truly effective, everyone should either explicitly or implicitly sign on to this. Thus, as of tomorrow, the 230th Anniversary of the Declaration of Independence, Ilena Rosenthal and Jan Drew are subject to Usenet Death Penalty. May they Rest in Perfidy.
Response:
www.BreastImplantAwareness.org/QuackWatchWatch.htm www.BreastImplantAwareness.org/PropagandistProbert.html www.BreastImplantAwareness.org/blog.htm
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have offered Jan and Ilena to end this war on more than one occasion. Neither have accepted. Jan has clearly said: The peace must come from you. Your LIES and postings with FAKE names show you are DESPICABLE. [Happy anniversary to me. Then you post as Freddie. It was NOT your wife who e-mailed me. It was YOU] You have repeatedly LIED. Your so-called *peace offer* was also FAKE. Posted for the sole reason, you wanted the websites which are a result of your behavior and LIES…to disappear. If YOU want peace. STOP LYING. Stop accusing others of what YOU yourself are guilty of. Change your despicable behavior. Sadly this behavior IS why you were disbarred. STOP these newsgroups for your insane need to argue. Clearly, with Jan’s standard of accusing and anyone with whom she disagrees of lying, since she does not understand what a lie it, it would be impossible for me to "stop lying" unless I either 1) stopped posting and/or 2) merely posted, "Yes Jan, you are correct." Neither is going to happen. Further, Ilena has flatly refused refused to even consider peace. In fact, she has demonstrated that she will continue her relentless attacks even when she gets her answers. Thus, with her, there is no peace. The ONLY solution to this is to impose a modified (modified in the sense that it is not done with software or for spamming) Usenet Death Penalty. They are Usenet polluters, polluting Usenet with their bile. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usenet_Death_Penalty where no one, under any circumstances, respond to any of their messages, for any reason. If they post something that needs to be refuted, commencing a new thread without reference to them, would be proper. If everyone signs on to this, they will be left like a junk yard dog, barking at passing cars that do not care about them. To be truly effective, everyone should either explicitly or implicitly sign on to this. Thus, as of tomorrow, the 230th Anniversary of the Declaration of Independence, Ilena Rosenthal and Jan Drew are subject to Usenet Death Penalty. May they Rest in Perfidy.
A make believe UDP, eh? Le a
Response:
Question:
Thanks Sue. They serve real coffee, have selectable food menues, much better snacks, and yes, the staff is NICER ~ ! They place is far prettier, and I get 10 mind/day of web access. But I liked the Bellevue docs better, even if they DID misdiagnose me.
Oh? Well, I knew that; and, am sooooooo glad for your sake that the pdoc’s at Cornell realized it. Have you been Rx’d an AD? If so, which one? What’s your prognosis? Will you have to remain an in-patient for an extended period—or, just a few weeks? Also, has a social worker been assigned your case—to help you navigate the social services *system* so you will enuff $$ for basic needs? I’m so relieved you are getting some REAL help! ((((Virginia)))))
Response:
Gary Bunch 120 West Weiuca Road, Suite 200 Atlanta, Georgia 30342 (404) 943-0220 FAX: (404) 943-0971 Mr. Bunch says "I’m not anti-psychiatry," but he specializes in medical (including psychiatric) malpractice, and he represented an ex-patient who won a $3.4 million judgment for an unjustified psychiatric commitment that took place in 1993. At the end of 1999 Mr. Bunch had four other unjustified psychiatric commitment lawsuits pending: two in Atlanta, one in Boston, one in Chicago, and he was investigating another in New York City.
Response:
No, Kitty, the Cornell docs do not realize it. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thanks Sue. They serve real coffee, have selectable food menues, much better snacks, and yes, the staff is NICER ~ ! They place is far prettier, and I get 10 mind/day of web access. But I liked the Bellevue docs better, even if they DID misdiagnose me. Oh? Well, I knew that; and, am sooooooo glad for your sake that the pdoc’s at Cornell realized it. Have you been Rx’d an AD? If so, which one? What’s your prognosis? Will you have to remain an in-patient for an extended period—or, just a few weeks? Also, has a social worker been assigned your case—to help you navigate the social services *system* so you will enuff $$ for basic needs? I’m so relieved you are getting some REAL help! ((((Virginia)))))
Response:
They give me lithium and wellbutrin. Lithium makes you feel stupid and nauseuas and slow. But the WB keeps me awake, if impaired. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thanks Sue. They serve real coffee, have selectable food menues, much better snacks, and yes, the staff is NICER ~ ! They place is far prettier, and I get 10 mind/day of web access. But I liked the Bellevue docs better, even if they DID misdiagnose me. Oh? Well, I knew that; and, am sooooooo glad for your sake that the pdoc’s at Cornell realized it. Have you been Rx’d an AD? If so, which one? What’s your prognosis? Will you have to remain an in-patient for an extended period—or, just a few weeks? Also, has a social worker been assigned your case—to help you navigate the social services *system* so you will enuff $$ for basic needs? I’m so relieved you are getting some REAL help! ((((Virginia)))))
Response:
They give me lithium and wellbutrin. Lithium makes you feel stupid and nauseuas and slow.
Hmmmm It doesn’t do that to everyone. Lithium induces slight or subclinical hypothyroidism in many users; however, Lithium induces SEVERE hypothyroidism in approx. 10% of all users. http://www.psychiatrictimes.com/p020156.html The Complex Interrelationship of Lithium and the Thyroid By Patrick Oakley, B.Med., FRACP Psychiatric Times January 2002 Vol. XIX Issue 1 "Lazarus listed impaired thyroidal uptake of iodine, impaired iodination of tyrosine, altered thyroglobulin structure and impaired release of thyroxine from the thyroid gland as the mechanisms by which lithium induces hypothyroidism." http://thyroid.about.com/ Hypothyroidism or low thyroid symptoms of thyroid problems include: . Fatigue and weakness . Depression . Weight gain . Low basal temperature, cold intolerance, cold hands and feet . Dry and coarse skin . Heavy menstrual periods . Insomnia . High cholesterol . Sluggish bowels, constipation . Poor memory, forgetfulness, DEMENTIA . Nervousness and tremors . Immune system problems . Hair loss – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – But the WB keeps me awake, if impaired. Thanks Sue. They serve real coffee, have selectable food menues, much better snacks, and yes, the staff is NICER ~ ! They place is far prettier, and I get 10 mind/day of web access. But I liked the Bellevue docs better, even if they DID misdiagnose me. Oh? Well, I knew that; and, am sooooooo glad for your sake that the pdoc’s at Cornell realized it. Have you been Rx’d an AD? If so, which one? What’s your prognosis? Will you have to remain an in-patient for an extended period—or, just a few weeks? Also, has a social worker been assigned your case—to help you navigate the social services *system* so you will enuff $$ for basic needs? I’m so relieved you are getting some REAL help! ((((Virginia)))))
Response:
No, Kitty, the Cornell docs do not realize it.
So sorry. Did they perform thyroid tests on you BEFORE prescribing lithium? See other posts. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thanks Sue. They serve real coffee, have selectable food menues, much better snacks, and yes, the staff is NICER ~ ! They place is far prettier, and I get 10 mind/day of web access. But I liked the Bellevue docs better, even if they DID misdiagnose me. Oh? Well, I knew that; and, am sooooooo glad for your sake that the pdoc’s at Cornell realized it. Have you been Rx’d an AD? If so, which one? What’s your prognosis? Will you have to remain an in-patient for an extended period—or, just a few weeks? Also, has a social worker been assigned your case—to help you navigate the social services *system* so you will enuff $$ for basic needs? I’m so relieved you are getting some REAL help! ((((Virginia)))))
Response:
Yes, sounds about right. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – They give me lithium and wellbutrin. Lithium makes you feel stupid and nauseuas and slow. Hmmmm It doesn’t do that to everyone. Lithium induces slight or subclinical hypothyroidism in many users; however, Lithium induces SEVERE hypothyroidism in approx. 10% of all users. http://www.psychiatrictimes.com/p020156.html The Complex Interrelationship of Lithium and the Thyroid By Patrick Oakley, B.Med., FRACP Psychiatric Times January 2002 Vol. XIX Issue 1 "Lazarus listed impaired thyroidal uptake of iodine, impaired iodination of tyrosine, altered thyroglobulin structure and impaired release of thyroxine from the thyroid gland as the mechanisms by which lithium induces hypothyroidism." http://thyroid.about.com/ Hypothyroidism or low thyroid symptoms of thyroid problems include: . Fatigue and weakness . Depression . Weight gain . Low basal temperature, cold intolerance, cold hands and feet . Dry and coarse skin . Heavy menstrual periods . Insomnia . High cholesterol . Sluggish bowels, constipation . Poor memory, forgetfulness, DEMENTIA . Nervousness and tremors . Immune system problems . Hair loss But the WB keeps me awake, if impaired. Thanks Sue. They serve real coffee, have selectable food menues, much better snacks, and yes, the staff is NICER ~ ! They place is far prettier, and I get 10 mind/day of web access. But I liked the Bellevue docs better, even if they DID misdiagnose me. Oh? Well, I knew that; and, am sooooooo glad for your sake that the pdoc’s at Cornell realized it. Have you been Rx’d an AD? If so, which one? What’s your prognosis? Will you have to remain an in-patient for an extended period—or, just a few weeks? Also, has a social worker been assigned your case—to help you navigate the social services *system* so you will enuff $$ for basic needs? I’m so relieved you are getting some REAL help! ((((Virginia)))))
Response:
Yes, sounds about right.
Lithium is often augmented with synthetic thyroid hormone. Discuss the possibility Lithium is impairing your thyroid function and you may need thyroid replacement hormone..with your physicians. Lithium doesn’t normally make people *stupid*, etc. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – They give me lithium and wellbutrin. Lithium makes you feel stupid and nauseuas and slow. Hmmmm It doesn’t do that to everyone. Lithium induces slight or subclinical hypothyroidism in many users; however, Lithium induces SEVERE hypothyroidism in approx. 10% of all users. http://www.psychiatrictimes.com/p020156.html The Complex Interrelationship of Lithium and the Thyroid By Patrick Oakley, B.Med., FRACP Psychiatric Times January 2002 Vol. XIX Issue 1 "Lazarus listed impaired thyroidal uptake of iodine, impaired iodination of tyrosine, altered thyroglobulin structure and impaired release of thyroxine from the thyroid gland as the mechanisms by which lithium induces hypothyroidism." http://thyroid.about.com/ Hypothyroidism or low thyroid symptoms of thyroid problems include: . Fatigue and weakness . Depression . Weight gain . Low basal temperature, cold intolerance, cold hands and feet . Dry and coarse skin . Heavy menstrual periods . Insomnia . High cholesterol . Sluggish bowels, constipation . Poor memory, forgetfulness, DEMENTIA . Nervousness and tremors . Immune system problems . Hair loss But the WB keeps me awake, if impaired. Thanks Sue. They serve real coffee, have selectable food menues, much better snacks, and yes, the staff is NICER ~ ! They place is far prettier, and I get 10 mind/day of web access. But I liked the Bellevue docs better, even if they DID misdiagnose me. Oh? Well, I knew that; and, am sooooooo glad for your sake that the pdoc’s at Cornell realized it. Have you been Rx’d an AD? If so, which one? What’s your prognosis? Will you have to remain an in-patient for an extended period—or, just a few weeks? Also, has a social worker been assigned your case—to help you navigate the social services *system* so you will enuff $$ for basic needs? I’m so relieved you are getting some REAL help! ((((Virginia)))))
Response:
I worry about Twittering One … We worry about our loved ones, when they are in trouble.
Hello. do I know you, stranger? You are so very kind to me, here. You know me well. … … in a deeply, personal sense. Y Cordially, rl – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am concerned that those who are taking care of her will come to realize and accept that T1, just has plain, ordinary AD(H)D. I am worried that they will come to the conclusion that there isn’t very much which they can do for her because of this. … I am worried that both sides will end up feeling frustrated and despondent because of the ineffectualness of "such". From my own limited ‘ experience’; mental health care facilities; just aren’t set up to deal with AD(H)D. It confuses them, deeply. … Some are confused, yes. Some are annoyed that stimulants interact with normal methods to treat normal depression or normal psychosis. But some understand and care. I am very worried that Twittering One just has AD(H)D for real. Yes, Attention Deficit Disorder. But there is another aspect to this. We all need attention, real attention, from people who really care. That attention deficit may be more important to Twittering One than the one that can be treated with medications. Reality will speak for itself. It will be hard to ignore. At least, I have that much "faith & respect" in my own MHP’s. I "do" trust them inherently. God help those who ‘ don’t respect ‘ someone with AD(H)D. There will be "Hell" to pay, I PROMISE YOU. Yes, you are angry. A very concerned, RL P.S. " Tortises all the way down * ( B. Russell ? ) "Turtles all the way down" refers to a infinite regression belief about the nature of the universe (see Cosmology). See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turtles_all_the_way_down Perhaps, most believe that RL is a heavily FUBARed twit. ( ! or & or ‘ period ‘ ) What anyone might think of me, MY OWN REALITY IS LIKE THUS: It’s " Prisoner’s Dilemma ", all the way down … It’s " Prisoner’s Dilemma ", all the way down … It’s " Prisoner’s Dilemma ", all the way down … It’s " Prisoner’s Dilemma ", all the way down … It’s " Prisoner’s Dilemma ", all the way down … It’s " Prisoner’s Dilemma ", all the way down … It’s " Prisoner’s Dilemma ", all the way down … It’s " Prisoner’s Dilemma ", all the way down … It’s " Prisoner’s Dilemma ", all the way down … It’s " Prisoner’s Dilemma ", all the way down … It’s " Prisoner’s Dilemma ", all the way down … It’s " Prisoner’s Dilemma ", all the way down … only if you make youself a prisoner… See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prisoner’s_dilemma IMO, T1 is in deep shit and won’t get luck. Damn it. you are her luck We both need help. help yourself I am dead. … I’m just a stupid, crazy, fuck. I no longer care. I shall go beserk. Need a lawyer, T1? See below: ‘ as an Officer of the Court. Once he knew for certain that Fleming was guilty, he was OBLIGATED to report that fact to the court. If he had dropped the case and it could be proved later that he knew about Fleming’s guilt but hadn’t taken this whistle blowing action, he was disbarment bait. … ‘ Or …. I freely admit that the stimulants which I use can throw me strongly into a severe OCD state. Of and by itself; if that is all that there is considered … it isn’t a good idea. It is easy to forget that this severe OCD ‘tight-assed’ lock up is NOT the whole story. Rather, it is an end state. … a stable critical point … a pit that one falls into and stays in. What is *MOST SIGNIFICANT* and forgotten is the bigger picture of "how" a person ARRIVED and "what" needs to be done to DEPART the paralyzed morass. This ‘falling’ into a severe OCD condition … and ESCAPING from the "same" is the essential key. Stimulants are very likely to create this problem !!!!! (This *POSTING* is a very important NODE. .. It’s worth coming back at it; again and again. I shall do so. ) Why do I take stimulants? I often ask myself that same question. I only use them since two years but something makes me think I need them. Yes they work well, but… Oh. It’s to become more like my dear wife. ( who IMO is OCD ) … It is to be less ADD and more neutral. … Amazing, eh. Sounds like a loving husband. If only you were not maried, you would saddle your white stallion and rescue Twittering One and let her become the love of your life. But that is impossible… …good plot. Hey everyone ! I am drunk. I don’t care any more. So, you knocked yourself out.
‘ Dutch Courage ‘ isn’t all bad. There are some qualities (about it) that can be admired, eh. I am, useless .. I wish that I wasn’t Everything is irrelevent for me, now. and you are useless once again… Great dramatic potential!
P O T E N T I A L sucks like a squeezed lemon. (forget the drama and go write yourself a happy ending, whatever that may be) <!– greetz frenzy ;- ;- :- :–
another raving loonie. … can it be?
Response:
I wish I had time to read. But my 10 min almost gone.
It’s nice you have some time. Hope they are treating you well. Linda
Response:
Thanks Sue. They serve real coffee, have selectable food menues, much better snacks, and yes, the staff is NICER ~ ! They place is far prettier, and I get 10 mind/day of web access. But I liked the Bellevue docs better, even if they DID misdiagnose me. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I wish I had time to read. But my 10 min almost gone. It’s nice you have some time. Hope they are treating you well. Linda
Response:
I wish I had time to read. But my 10 min almost gone. Be worried. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I worry about Twittering One … I am concerned that those who are taking care of her will come to realize and accept that T1, just has plain, ordinary AD(H)D. I am worried that they will come to the conclusion that there isn’t very much which they can do for her because of this. … I am worried that both sides will end up feeling frustrated and despondent because of the ineffectualness of "such". From my own limited ‘ experience’; mental health care facilities; just aren’t set up to deal with AD(H)D. It confuses them, deeply. … I am very worried that Twittering One just has AD(H)D for real. Reality will speak for itself. It will be hard to ignore. At least, I have that much "faith & respect" in my own MHP’s. I "do" trust them inherently. God help those who ‘ don’t respect ‘ someone with AD(H)D. There will be "Hell" to pay, I PROMISE YOU. A very concerned, RL P.S. " Tortises all the way down * ( B. Russell ? ) "Turtles all the way down" refers to a infinite regression belief about the nature of the universe (see Cosmology). See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turtles_all_the_way_down Perhaps, most believe that RL is a heavily FUBARed twit. ( ! or & or ‘ period ‘ ) What anyone might think of me, MY OWN REALITY IS LIKE THUS: It’s " Prisoner’s Dilemma ", all the way down … It’s " Prisoner’s Dilemma ", all the way down … It’s " Prisoner’s Dilemma ", all the way down … It’s " Prisoner’s Dilemma ", all the way down … It’s " Prisoner’s Dilemma ", all the way down … It’s " Prisoner’s Dilemma ", all the way down … It’s " Prisoner’s Dilemma ", all the way down … It’s " Prisoner’s Dilemma ", all the way down … It’s " Prisoner’s Dilemma ", all the way down … It’s " Prisoner’s Dilemma ", all the way down … It’s " Prisoner’s Dilemma ", all the way down … It’s " Prisoner’s Dilemma ", all the way down … See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prisoner’s_dilemma IMO, T1 is in deep shit and won’t get luck. Damn it. We both need help. I am dead. … I’m just a stupid, crazy, fuck. I no longer care. I shall go beserk. Need a lawyer, T1? See below: ‘ as an Officer of the Court. Once he knew for certain that Fleming was guilty, he was OBLIGATED to report that fact to the court. If he had dropped the case and it could be proved later that he knew about Fleming’s guilt but hadn’t taken this whistle blowing action, he was disbarment bait. … ‘ Or …. I freely admit that the stimulants which I use can throw me strongly into a severe OCD state. Of and by itself; if that is all that there is considered … it isn’t a good idea. It is easy to forget that this severe OCD ‘tight-assed’ lock up is NOT the whole story. Rather, it is an end state. … a stable critical point … a pit that one falls into and stays in. What is *MOST SIGNIFICANT* and forgotten is the bigger picture of "how" a person ARRIVED and "what" needs to be done to DEPART the paralyzed morass. This ‘falling’ into a severe OCD condition … and ESCAPING from the "same" is the essential key. Stimulants are very likely to create this problem !!!!! (This *POSTING* is a very important NODE. .. It’s worth coming back at it; again and again. I shall do so. ) Why do I take stimulants? Oh. It’s to become more like my dear wife. ( who IMO is OCD ) … It is to be less ADD and more neutral. … Amazing, eh. Hey everyone ! I am drunk. I don’t care any more. I am, useless .. I wish that I wasn’t Everything is irrelevent for me, now. As my ex shrink-a-dink said …. FOAD, RL. O.K shrink-a-dink. Yes sir. IMDb user comments for …And Justice for All (1979) I doubt you will ever see as thorough an indictment of the American legal system as you are brought in the film And Justice For All. Too often the object of that legal system has been terribly lost in the process. This film has become my favorite Al Pacino role. I don’t think he was ever better on the screen as Arthur Kirkland, an attorney who cares maybe too much for his clients both for his career and his own mental health. During the course of And Justice For All, Pacino has two clients who for reasons I won’t go into here, do not get their proper day in court and both stories end tragically. The clients are Robert Christian as the cross dressing Ralph Agee and Thomas G. Waites as Jeff McCullaugh and both players give stunning performances. The hardest audience heart out there will feel their pain. Their stories are mixed in with Pacino’s running feud with a malevolent judge played by John Forsythe. John Forsythe in this film is not the John Forsythe of Dynasty or Bachelor Father or the disembodied employer of three shapely female private eyes. As it turns out this law and order judge thinks he’s quite above the law. And he involves Pacino in his effort to prove his innocence after he’s accused of rape. Life does have a funny way of imitating art and later on the New York State Chief Judge of the Court of Appeals, Sol Wachtler, was brought down in a similar scandal to what Forsythe is accused of here. Jack Warden is another judge operating out of that same Baltimore courthouse that Forsythe does. He’s quite a whack job himself, sitting on a window ledge eating his lunch, wearing a concealed revolver under his judicial robes. It’s a crime for the rest of us to do that, but he’s another judge who feels himself above the law. Pacino has some very tender scenes with Lee Strassberg who plays his grandfather and Sam Levene who is Strassberg’s friend at the nursing home they reside it. They’re all such good players that you don’t even think while you’re watching them that this is a reunion of Michael Corleone and Hyman Roth. His scenes with them are his link to a world beyond his chosen profession. The tragedy of And Justice For All is not so much the personal tragedies of Christian and Waites, bad as they are. It is the arrogant abuse of the rules and procedures of our legal system by the very men who are a bound by it as Pacino is. Pacino finds himself so boxed in that the only way he can see justice done is blow up his own career in a now legendary courtroom climax scene. In the post Watergate Era, And Justice For All found its audience. And its message is still a timely one. Was the above comment useful to you? 2 out of 2 people found the following comment useful :- Much more than a comedy, 14 December 2004 9/10 Author: saul-22 from Montreal, Canada This is not a review: ‘And Justice for all’ has been reviewed to death here below: as comedy; as a tour-de- force acting performance by Al Pacino; as an entertainment and as a musical showcase. I was hugely entertained by this movie but in a different way. This is a personal evaluation of a landmark movie directed by Norman Jewison and written by Barry Levinson & Valarie Curtin. The film reflected the rage that many felt against the failed Criminal-Justice system of 25-yrs ago. Since then, Judges have been reigned in somewhat, and DNA technology has freed thousands, many even from death row. What still persists is law-enforcement’s inability to admit a mistake. Officialdom will move heaven and earth to stand firm on any previous decision; as if to admit error would undermine the legal edifice and bring the law into disrespect. The opposite is true of course. The whole world knows that mistakes are made in adjudicating the relations between people and if law enforcement could admit this fact with grace, the whole legal system would run more smoothly, in fact an order of magnitude smoother and more efficiently. And thus the rage. I would like to start at the end. With titles running, Arthur Kirkland, Baltimore lawyer, is sitting, bewildered and despairing on the steps of the Baltimore Court House; he has just blown the career he loved. His rage at the phony and corrupt criminal-justice system has led him to betray the client he was sworn to defend and he will surely be disbarred. The trial he has been ejected from will certainly be declared a mistrial and a vicious criminal may go free. The affair he was having with Gail Packer, a thing of the past. The writers had no doubt about the story they were telling. It’s a story about justice denied to all but those who can get the best legal representation and that means money. It is a story of a system where judges have become so arrogant and crazed by their own power of life or death that they have lost all contact with the world around them. Without a modicum of respect for the rights of those that come before them for justice, sometimes carelessly and sometimes with malice they meddle heedlessly in peoples lives causing havoc and dismay. The plea-bargaining system also comes in for its share of bashing. In the lobbies and antechambers of the CourtHouse we see lawyers and prosecutors haggling over the penalties to be meted out in exchange for a guilty plea. These are almost biblical scenes of temple desecration. Judge Henry T. Fleming played by John Forsyth is the metaphor for evil in this movie. His aloofness and arrogance and his repetition
… read more »
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I worry about Twittering One … We worry about our loved ones, when they are in trouble. Hello. do I know you, stranger? No, you don’t. I’ve been reading ASAD for some time without posting, you know, english being my second language and so. You are so very kind to me, here. You know me well. … … in a deeply, personal sense. I don’t really know you that well, but you express yourself in a deeply personal way. I respond to what you are writing. I can relate many things you tell and recognize what you feeling. – My wife and I don’t make eachother happy, but its not bad enough to break up 
– And the meds, they make life better, in a way, maybe… ridiculous how important they have become for me! remind me of the ring in "lord of the rings" but it’s not quite the same. – Getting in those negative spirals… Usually people tell each other what is not good about the other, but I have learnt that telling the good things is nice, empowering and it is the truth. All those negative judgements beginning to cascade make ye depressed. Gotta break out by looking at good things. I have this diary in which I write down only good things and I try to find at least one each day. Just to train myself in noticing and formulating positive things. When I started it I thought the result would be boring, but is nice to read back. Hey everyone ! I am drunk. I don’t care any more. So, you knocked yourself out. ‘ Dutch Courage ‘ isn’t all bad. There are some qualities (about it) that can be admired, eh. LOL I am Dutch (maybe I get drunk later) I am, useless .. I wish that I wasn’t Everything is irrelevent for me, now. and you are useless once again… Great dramatic potential! P O T E N T I A L sucks like a squeezed lemon. You would be surprised how much taxes can squeeze out of a squeezed lemon. (forget the drama and go write yourself a happy ending, whatever that may be) <!– greetz frenzy ;- ;- :- :– another raving loonie. … can it be? there is only one of you, that is exactly enough. but the name is a funny coincidence. <!– greetz frenzy ;- ;- :- :–
Your words are very kind and flattering. You understand. Carrying on forward, isn’t easy for me. I don’t know what is going to happen. … I don’t know what I shall do. Frustration is not good for the soul. It has worn me down, raw. Cordially, RL
Response:
Shit happens and then we die.
Whether or not we have ADHD. — Ann e-mail address is not checked
Response:
I worry about Twittering One … We worry about our loved ones, when they are in trouble. Hello. do I know you, stranger?
No, you don’t. I’ve been reading ASAD for some time without posting, you know, english being my second language and so. You are so very kind to me, here. You know me well. … … in a deeply, personal sense.
I don’t really know you that well, but you express yourself in a deeply personal way. I respond to what you are writing. I can relate many things you tell and recognize what you feeling. – My wife and I don’t make eachother happy, but its not bad enough to break up – And the meds, they make life better, in a way, maybe… ridiculous how important they have become for me! remind me of the ring in "lord of the rings" but it’s not quite the same. – Getting in those negative spirals… Usually people tell each other what is not good about the other, but I have learnt that telling the good things is nice, empowering and it is the truth. All those negative judgements beginning to cascade make ye depressed. Gotta break out by looking at good things. I have this diary in which I write down only good things and I try to find at least one each day. Just to train myself in noticing and formulating positive things. When I started it I thought the result would be boring, but is nice to read back. Hey everyone ! I am drunk. I don’t care any more. So, you knocked yourself out. ‘ Dutch Courage ‘ isn’t all bad. There are some qualities (about it) that can be admired, eh.
LOL I am Dutch (maybe I get drunk later) I am, useless .. I wish that I wasn’t Everything is irrelevent for me, now. and you are useless once again… Great dramatic potential! P O T E N T I A L sucks like a squeezed lemon.
You would be surprised how much taxes can squeeze out of a squeezed lemon. (forget the drama and go write yourself a happy ending, whatever that may be) <!– greetz frenzy ;- ;- :- :– another raving loonie. … can it be?
there is only one of you, that is exactly enough. but the name is a funny coincidence. <!– greetz frenzy ;- ;- :- :–
Response:
I worry about Twittering One … God help those with ADD …. As of 2006 A.D. ; ‘that’ is more or less the state of the art.
We all need God’s help, don’t we?
Response:
I worry about Twittering One …
We worry about our loved ones, when they are in trouble. I am concerned that those who are taking care of her will come to realize and accept that T1, just has plain, ordinary AD(H)D. I am worried that they will come to the conclusion that there isn’t very much which they can do for her because of this. … I am worried that both sides will end up feeling frustrated and despondent because of the ineffectualness of "such". From my own limited ‘ experience’; mental health care facilities; just aren’t set up to deal with AD(H)D. It confuses them, deeply. …
Some are confused, yes. Some are annoyed that stimulants interact with normal methods to treat normal depression or normal psychosis. But some understand and care. I am very worried that Twittering One just has AD(H)D for real.
Yes, Attention Deficit Disorder. But there is another aspect to this. We all need attention, real attention, from people who really care. That attention deficit may be more important to Twittering One than the one that can be treated with medications. Reality will speak for itself. It will be hard to ignore. At least, I have that much "faith & respect" in my own MHP’s. I "do" trust them inherently. God help those who ‘ don’t respect ‘ someone with AD(H)D. There will be "Hell" to pay, I PROMISE YOU.
Yes, you are angry. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – A very concerned, RL P.S. " Tortises all the way down * ( B. Russell ? ) "Turtles all the way down" refers to a infinite regression belief about the nature of the universe (see Cosmology). See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turtles_all_the_way_down Perhaps, most believe that RL is a heavily FUBARed twit. ( ! or & or ‘ period ‘ ) What anyone might think of me, MY OWN REALITY IS LIKE THUS: It’s " Prisoner’s Dilemma ", all the way down … It’s " Prisoner’s Dilemma ", all the way down … It’s " Prisoner’s Dilemma ", all the way down … It’s " Prisoner’s Dilemma ", all the way down … It’s " Prisoner’s Dilemma ", all the way down … It’s " Prisoner’s Dilemma ", all the way down … It’s " Prisoner’s Dilemma ", all the way down … It’s " Prisoner’s Dilemma ", all the way down … It’s " Prisoner’s Dilemma ", all the way down … It’s " Prisoner’s Dilemma ", all the way down … It’s " Prisoner’s Dilemma ", all the way down … It’s " Prisoner’s Dilemma ", all the way down …
only if you make youself a prisoner… See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prisoner’s_dilemma IMO, T1 is in deep shit and won’t get luck. Damn it.
you are her luck We both need help.
help yourself – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am dead. … I’m just a stupid, crazy, fuck. I no longer care. I shall go beserk. Need a lawyer, T1? See below: ‘ as an Officer of the Court. Once he knew for certain that Fleming was guilty, he was OBLIGATED to report that fact to the court. If he had dropped the case and it could be proved later that he knew about Fleming’s guilt but hadn’t taken this whistle blowing action, he was disbarment bait. … ‘ Or …. I freely admit that the stimulants which I use can throw me strongly into a severe OCD state. Of and by itself; if that is all that there is considered … it isn’t a good idea. It is easy to forget that this severe OCD ‘tight-assed’ lock up is NOT the whole story. Rather, it is an end state. … a stable critical point … a pit that one falls into and stays in. What is *MOST SIGNIFICANT* and forgotten is the bigger picture of "how" a person ARRIVED and "what" needs to be done to DEPART the paralyzed morass. This ‘falling’ into a severe OCD condition … and ESCAPING from the "same" is the essential key. Stimulants are very likely to create this problem !!!!! (This *POSTING* is a very important NODE. .. It’s worth coming back at it; again and again. I shall do so. ) Why do I take stimulants?
I often ask myself that same question. I only use them since two years but something makes me think I need them. Yes they work well, but… Oh. It’s to become more like my dear wife. ( who IMO is OCD ) … It is to be less ADD and more neutral. … Amazing, eh.
Sounds like a loving husband. If only you were not maried, you would saddle your white stallion and rescue Twittering One and let her become the love of your life. But that is impossible… …good plot. Hey everyone ! I am drunk. I don’t care any more.
So, you knocked yourself out. I am, useless .. I wish that I wasn’t Everything is irrelevent for me, now.
and you are useless once again… Great dramatic potential! (forget the drama and go write yourself a happy ending, whatever that may be) <!– greetz frenzy ;- ;- :- :–
Response:
I worry about Twittering One …
God help those with ADD …. As of 2006 A.D. ; ‘that’ is more or less the state of the art. Shit happens and then we die. The End.
Response:
I worry about Twittering One … I am concerned that those who are taking care of her will come to realize and accept that T1, just has plain, ordinary AD(H)D. I am worried that they will come to the conclusion that there isn’t very much which they can do for her because of this. … I am worried that both sides will end up feeling frustrated and despondent because of the ineffectualness of "such". From my own limited ‘ experience’; mental health care facilities; just
aren’t set up to deal with AD(H)D. It confuses them, deeply. … I am very worried that Twittering One just has AD(H)D for real. Reality will speak for itself. It will be hard to ignore. At least, I have that much "faith & respect" in my own MHP’s. I "do" trust them inherently. God help those who ‘ don’t respect ‘ someone with AD(H)D. There will be "Hell" to pay, I PROMISE YOU. A very concerned, RL P.S. " Tortises all the way down * ( B. Russell ? ) "Turtles all the way down" refers to a infinite regression belief about the nature of the universe (see Cosmology). See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turtles_all_the_way_down Perhaps, most believe that RL is a heavily FUBARed twit. ( ! or & or ‘ period ‘ ) What anyone might think of me, MY OWN REALITY IS LIKE THUS: It’s " Prisoner’s Dilemma ", all the way down … It’s " Prisoner’s Dilemma ", all the way down … It’s " Prisoner’s Dilemma ", all the way down … It’s " Prisoner’s Dilemma ", all the way down … It’s " Prisoner’s Dilemma ", all the way down … It’s " Prisoner’s Dilemma ", all the way down … It’s " Prisoner’s Dilemma ", all the way down … It’s " Prisoner’s Dilemma ", all the way down … It’s " Prisoner’s Dilemma ", all the way down … It’s " Prisoner’s Dilemma ", all the way down … It’s " Prisoner’s Dilemma ", all the way down … It’s " Prisoner’s Dilemma ", all the way down … See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prisoner’s_dilemma IMO, T1 is in deep shit and won’t get luck. Damn it. We both need help. I am dead. … I’m just a stupid, crazy, fuck. I no longer care. I shall go beserk. Need a lawyer, T1? See below: ‘ as an Officer of the Court. Once he knew for certain that Fleming was guilty, he was OBLIGATED to report that fact to the court. If he had dropped the case and it could be proved later that he knew about Fleming’s guilt but hadn’t taken this whistle blowing action, he was disbarment bait. … ‘ Or …. I freely admit that the stimulants which I use can throw me strongly into a severe OCD state. Of and by itself; if that is all that there is considered … it isn’t a good idea. It is easy to forget that this severe OCD ‘tight-assed’ lock up is NOT the whole story. Rather, it is an end state. … a stable critical point … a pit that one falls into and stays in. What is *MOST SIGNIFICANT* and forgotten is the bigger picture of "how" a person ARRIVED and "what" needs to be done to DEPART the paralyzed morass. This ‘falling’ into a severe OCD condition … and ESCAPING from the "same" is the essential key. Stimulants are very likely to create this problem !!!!! (This *POSTING* is a very important NODE. .. It’s worth coming back at it; again and again. I shall do so. ) Why do I take stimulants? Oh. It’s to become more like my dear wife. ( who IMO is OCD ) … It is to be less ADD and more neutral. … Amazing, eh. Hey everyone ! I am drunk. I don’t care any more. I am, useless .. I wish that I wasn’t Everything is irrelevent for me, now. As my ex shrink-a-dink said …. FOAD, RL. O.K shrink-a-dink. Yes sir. IMDb user comments for …And Justice for All (1979) I doubt you will ever see as thorough an indictment of the American legal system as you are brought in the film And Justice For All. Too often the object of that legal system has been terribly lost in the process. This film has become my favorite Al Pacino role. I don’t think he was ever better on the screen as Arthur Kirkland, an attorney who cares maybe too much for his clients both for his career and his own mental health. During the course of And Justice For All, Pacino has two clients who for reasons I won’t go into here, do not get their proper day in court and both stories end tragically. The clients are Robert Christian as the cross dressing Ralph Agee and Thomas G. Waites as Jeff McCullaugh and both players give stunning performances. The hardest audience heart out there will feel their pain. Their stories are mixed in with Pacino’s running feud with a malevolent judge played by John Forsythe. John Forsythe in this film is not the John Forsythe of Dynasty or Bachelor Father or the disembodied employer of three shapely female private eyes. As it turns out this law and order judge thinks he’s quite above the law. And he involves Pacino in his effort to prove his innocence after he’s accused of rape. Life does have a funny way of imitating art and later on the New York State Chief Judge of the Court of Appeals, Sol Wachtler, was brought down in a similar scandal to what Forsythe is accused of here. Jack Warden is another judge operating out of that same Baltimore courthouse that Forsythe does. He’s quite a whack job himself, sitting on a window ledge eating his lunch, wearing a concealed revolver under his judicial robes. It’s a crime for the rest of us to do that, but he’s another judge who feels himself above the law. Pacino has some very tender scenes with Lee Strassberg who plays his grandfather and Sam Levene who is Strassberg’s friend at the nursing home they reside it. They’re all such good players that you don’t even think while you’re watching them that this is a reunion of Michael Corleone and Hyman Roth. His scenes with them are his link to a world beyond his chosen profession. The tragedy of And Justice For All is not so much the personal tragedies of Christian and Waites, bad as they are. It is the arrogant abuse of the rules and procedures of our legal system by the very men who are a bound by it as Pacino is. Pacino finds himself so boxed in that the only way he can see justice done is blow up his own career in a now legendary courtroom climax scene. In the post Watergate Era, And Justice For All found its audience. And its message is still a timely one. Was the above comment useful to you? 2 out of 2 people found the following comment useful :- Much more than a comedy, 14 December 2004 9/10 Author: saul-22 from Montreal, Canada This is not a review: ‘And Justice for all’ has been reviewed to death here below: as comedy; as a tour-de- force acting performance by Al Pacino; as an entertainment and as a musical showcase. I was hugely entertained by this movie but in a different way. This is a personal evaluation of a landmark movie directed by Norman Jewison and written by Barry Levinson & Valarie Curtin. The film reflected the rage that many felt against the failed Criminal-Justice system of 25-yrs ago. Since then, Judges have been reigned in somewhat, and DNA technology has freed thousands, many even from death row. What still persists is law-enforcement’s inability to admit a mistake. Officialdom will move heaven and earth to stand firm on any previous decision; as if to admit error would undermine the legal edifice and bring the law into disrespect. The opposite is true of course. The whole world knows that mistakes are made in adjudicating the relations between people and if law enforcement could admit this fact with grace, the whole legal system would run more smoothly, in fact an order of magnitude smoother and more efficiently. And thus the rage. I would like to start at the end. With titles running, Arthur Kirkland, Baltimore lawyer, is sitting, bewildered and despairing on the steps of the Baltimore Court House; he has just blown the career he loved. His rage at the phony and corrupt criminal-justice system has led him to betray the client he was sworn to defend and he will surely be disbarred. The trial he has been ejected from will certainly be declared a mistrial and a vicious criminal may go free. The affair he was having with Gail Packer, a thing of the past. The writers had no doubt about the story they were telling. It’s a story about justice denied to all but those who can get the best legal representation and that means money. It is a story of a system where judges have become so arrogant and crazed by their own power of life or death that they have lost all contact with the world around them. Without a modicum of respect for the rights of those that come before them for justice, sometimes carelessly and sometimes with malice they meddle heedlessly in peoples lives causing havoc and dismay. The plea-bargaining system also comes in for its share of bashing. In the lobbies and antechambers of the CourtHouse we see lawyers and prosecutors haggling over the penalties to be meted out in exchange for a guilty plea. These are almost biblical scenes of temple desecration. Judge Henry T. Fleming played by John Forsyth is the metaphor for evil in this movie. His aloofness and arrogance and his repetition of the words ‘I don’t care’ convey the awesomeness of his depravity. He really doesn’t care about the people who come before him or their lawyers or the rest of the World for that matter. In this he is the distilled essence of evil. As the story evolves we realize that this man is more criminal than those who appear before him and all ironies are complete. In the penultimate scene, the ‘You are out of order’ scene; Judge Fleming, accused rapist, and Kirkland’s client gazes sternly and … read more »
Response:
Question:
Read an article awhile ago about ADD and Autism being linked and running in families. Can’t seem to find it currently. Anybody have any resources? Thanks n
Response:
Read an article awhile ago about ADD and Autism being linked and running in families. Can’t seem to find it currently. Anybody have any resources?
I don’t have an article at my fingertips, but there have been a number of studies that discussed this issue. Have you checked PubMed to look at the studies themselves? In the meantime, for those interested in the autism-ADHD link, I found this new study which looked at the similarities between PDD, an autism spectrum disorder, and ADHD, food for thought: "Are pervasive developmental disorders and attention-deficit/hyperactivity disorder distinct disorders?" http://tinyurl.com/fueth Nancy Unique, like everyone else
Response:
Question:
I have been on: Cylert, Ritalin, Dexedrine, Adderall, Strattera, Concerta…I definitely notice when I’m off meds (if I run out of my Rx) that my severe ADD is alive and well, but it seems like a catch-22: if you’ve never in your life been able to function properly without ADD getting in the way (misreading people’s body language–socially; losing jobs due to inconsistent performance–mentally; low self-esteem b/c of people not understanding your ADD–emotionally)….HOW DO YOU KNOW WHEN MEDS ARE WORKING? HOW DO YOU KNOW IF YOUR ADD SYMPTOMS ARE IN CHECK???
Slow down. Relax. Have some faith in yourself and some of your fellow kin, eh? Welcome back. Stay a while …. We missed you. RL ( I got to run outside and barbqueue dinner … back later! )
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have been on: Cylert, Ritalin, Dexedrine, Adderall, Strattera, Concerta…I definitely notice when I’m off meds (if I run out of my Rx) that my severe ADD is alive and well, but it seems like a catch-22: if you’ve never in your life been able to function properly without ADD getting in the way (misreading people’s body language–socially; losing jobs due to inconsistent performance–mentally; low self-esteem b/c of people not understanding your ADD–emotionally)….HOW DO YOU KNOW WHEN MEDS ARE WORKING? HOW DO YOU KNOW IF YOUR ADD SYMPTOMS ARE IN CHECK??? Slow down. Relax. Have some faith in yourself and some of your fellow kin, eh? Welcome back. Stay a while …. We missed you. RL ( I got to run outside and barbqueue dinner … back later! )
You know what I can’t stand about ADD babybluesky? The writhing twisting agony of suspended thought. It is utterly unbearable, IMO. Cordially RL
Response:
I have been on: Cylert, Ritalin, Dexedrine, Adderall, Strattera, Concerta…I definitely notice when I’m off meds (if I run out of my Rx) that my severe ADD is alive and well, but it seems like a catch-22: if you’ve never in your life been able to function properly without ADD getting in the way (misreading people’s body language–socially; losing jobs due to inconsistent performance–mentally; low self-esteem b/c of people not understanding your ADD–emotionally)….HOW DO YOU KNOW WHEN MEDS ARE WORKING? HOW DO YOU KNOW IF YOUR ADD SYMPTOMS ARE IN CHECK??? Slow down. Relax. Have some faith in yourself and some of your fellow kin, eh? Welcome back. Stay a while …. We missed you.
Some statistics …. ‘ English is spoken as a first language by more than 300 million people throughout the world, and used as a second language by many millions more. One in five of the world’s population speaks English with a good level of competence, and within the next few years the number of people speaking English as a second language will exceed the number of native speakers. … ‘ http://www.askoxford.com/globalenglish/?view=uk Let’s suppose the are 10 million English speaking, hardcore ADD types with access to the internet. Let’s suppose that the are 1 million hardcore ADD types who know about Usenet ( ‘Google’ is ASAD’s friend ) And the Raving Loonie is wasting his Friday night to sincerly answer you. … Get back here "babybluesky" and let’s have some fun. Of course; I almost forgot … " Am I for real ? " I guess not. Get it? EVERYONE WITH ADD RE-ACTS LIKE SHIT.
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – And the Raving Loonie is wasting his Friday night to sincerly answer you. … Get back here "babybluesky" and let’s have some fun. Of course; I almost forgot … " Am I for real ? " I guess not. Get it? EVERYONE WITH ADD RE-ACTS LIKE SHIT. You’re real, but that doesn’t mean everyone is. Who knows if she EVEN HAS ADD?
And pigs might fly. Impatient like a scram jet hyper hyper sensitive Tensile as tempered and rolled steel. She posted a bunch of questions about a bunch of other meds for a bunch of other conditions on a bunch of other mental health sites and never mentioned ADD anywhere but here. Today all her posts are gone. All of them. Maybe she’s a troll. Think about that before you spend too much emotional energy on her.
She is no troll. IMO, that is almost certain. As for the emotional thing and "me" re-acting? Sigh. … ADD. She’ll be back. Don’t worry.
Wouldn’t it be nice to see people loose their ADD hangups, eh? Cordially, the Raving Loonie
Response:
<snip You’re real, but that doesn’t mean everyone is. Who knows if she EVEN HAS ADD? She posted a bunch of questions about a bunch of other meds for a bunch of other conditions on a bunch of other mental health sites and never mentioned ADD anywhere but here. Today all her posts are gone. All of them. Maybe she’s a troll. Think about that before you spend too much emotional energy on her. She’ll be back. Don’t worry.
Perhaps she didn’t feel that ADD was relevant in any group except ASAD. Who knows? She certainly mentioned her "comorbidities" here the last times she posted.
Response:
I have been on: Cylert, Ritalin, Dexedrine, Adderall, Strattera, Concerta…I definitely notice when I’m off meds (if I run out of my Rx) that my severe ADD is alive and well, but it seems like a catch-22: if you’ve never in your life been able to function properly without ADD getting in the way (misreading people’s body language–socially; losing jobs due to inconsistent performance–mentally; low self-esteem b/c of people not understanding your ADD–emotionally)….HOW DO YOU KNOW WHEN MEDS ARE WORKING? HOW DO YOU KNOW IF YOUR ADD SYMPTOMS ARE IN CHECK???
Since ADHDers may be poor judges of their own behavior, they probably need to get a reality check from others: co-workers, friends, family, etc. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am currently on Concerta and Strattera. I thought both were working well for me. But I lost another job–granted, I only took it for one full month while I was at the job, though, after switching from Adderall. I was let go b/c of inconsistent work performance. It was a high-pressure, fast-paced environment. My boss and another guy were total jackasses, but that’s beside the point. They knew about my ADD and didn’t care, just berated me for any small mistakes I made. I was devastated to lose the job, b/c I had been breaking my neck to be careful and push myself and get all my work done. Obviously, high intelligence and ADD often go hand in hand, so I don’t need to tell anyone here how smart/bright/brilliant I am. I just am so discouraged. I just left my therapist of 11 years, b/c I felt like, at this point, I should be getting something more out of my sessions, and she hasn’t helped one bit. Will cognitive behavior therapy help with the missed social cues? Is there a magic pill that helps people who’ve been unresponsive to a ton of other ADD meds?
Alas, there is no "magic" in pill form or otherwise. The meds don’t just fix everything that ADHDers find problematic. What they may be able to do, however, is make it easier for you to work on fixing the problem yourself. Problems with social skills, for example. Meds won’t magically make them disappear. You need to actively work on developing social skills. I don’t know if cognitive therapy would help with that issue, but there may be support groups in your area that help people develop appropriate social skills such as reading non-verbal cues, not interrupting, not monopolizing the conversation, not walking away in the middle of a conversation, etc. You mentioned your problems with remembering to have your meds filled in another post. Taking your ADHD meds obviously didn’t help you remember to get a new prescription. You’ve got to work at developing a reminder system. I would really appreciate some advice…or something….b/c it’s discouraging and I’m starting to despair that I will ever make the most of my talents and brains…I am already looking for a different type of work environment, which will be a big help. But in general, I want to feel like I don’t have ADD anymore!!! Or at least, not feel the negative aspects of it, in such a way that they control my life!!!
Do you do any kind of volunteer work? The reason I’m asking is that I can see several possible benefits for you in getting actively involved in some kind of voluteering: Volunteering doing something you enjoy will help you feel good about yourself. There’s nothing like helping others in need to give you a sense of purpose and self-worth. Plus, helping others who are worse off than you are will help you put your own problems into perspective and get your mind off them for a while. Volunteering may help you develop some of the skills you now may lack. You may also discover new talents or interests which may lead to a new job. It may also help you find some like-minded friends and develop a larger social circle. As a result, your social life may improve, and your job networking circle too. Nancy Unique, like everyone else
Response:
Not a troll. Just saw something on TV about our "electronic fingerprints"–I didn’t think anyone would be around on the holiday weekend to answer my posts and didn’t want to leave personal info up on the boards.
You need to realize something. You may remove your messages from Googlegroups, but it doesn’t remove them from the people who use real newsreaders (I use Agent). I’ve got my retention set for 30 days, so everything posted here stays here for a month. Many, many other people do the same thing. If you’re worried about anonymity I’m afraid you’re SOL in today’s information age. Don’t post to usenet at all (although that cat is kinda out of the bag already). — Ann e-mail address is not checked
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Not a troll. Just saw something on TV about our "electronic fingerprints"–I didn’t think anyone would be around on the holiday weekend to answer my posts and didn’t want to leave personal info up on the boards. You need to realize something. You may remove your messages from Googlegroups, but it doesn’t remove them from the people who use real newsreaders (I use Agent). I’ve got my retention set for 30 days, so everything posted here stays here for a month. Many, many other people do the same thing. If you’re worried about anonymity I’m afraid you’re SOL in today’s information age. Don’t post to usenet at all (although that cat is kinda out of the bag already).
Including where you, "babybluesky", are posting from, btw ;-) ( Your "posting" IP is is listed when you use Google Groups online ) Cordially, RL
Response:
Question:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It wasn’t a dark and stormy night when Caitriona Mac Fhiodhbhuidhe It wasn’t a dark and stormy night when Caitriona Mac Fhiodhbhuidhe <snipped of stuff to reply to later, after I get back from picking up TF from work – he blew a head gasket on Monday Please tell me this gasket was vehicular in nature! Yep.
Question:
I’m male, 26. I weigh about 190 pounds. I was diagnosed with ADD and mild autism when I was 5 or 6. I have improved alot since I was little. But I’ve always struggling with with concentration, focus, processing and retaining information. Since high school, I’ve jumped from job-to-job – some lasted a month, others lasted a few years that I barely held onto by the skin of my teeth. This is the primarily the cause of alot of my anxiety and depression right now. I’m seeing a specialist who treats ADD/ADHD. I trust him and he seems to be knowledgeable. He precribed me on ‘Adderall XR’ for my ADD. I started taking it May 7th with a dosage of 10 mgs. I’ve went up 10 mgs every day till I was sure to notice a difference. I’m at 50 mgs now. I’m definitely noticing side affects, dry mouth, decreased appetite, etc. However, I’m not noticing any difference as far as attention, processing, focusing in general. I’m trying really hard to hold out but I’m sooo…. at my wits end with this. I feel like my life has pretty much been a stale-mate since graduating high school 8 years ago. I’m ready to get better and I realize it’s takes time. I’ve emailed my doctor about the adderall and he said that I should notice a difference either right away or more subtle and to keep going up. I’ll have to monitor myself for 2 weeks then go in for a check-up with my doc. I should mention that i recently lost a job on the 5th, and have been unemployed since then. Honestly, I have been very inactive since then. I’m not sure but I think this might be why I haven’t noticed much difference. Any thoughts, opinions, at all?
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m male, 26. I weigh about 190 pounds. I was diagnosed with ADD and mild autism when I was 5 or 6. I have improved alot since I was little. But I’ve always struggling with with concentration, focus, processing and retaining information. Since high school, I’ve jumped from job-to-job – some lasted a month, others lasted a few years that I barely held onto by the skin of my teeth. This is the primarily the cause of alot of my anxiety and depression right now. I’m seeing a specialist who treats ADD/ADHD. I trust him and he seems to be knowledgeable. He precribed me on ‘Adderall XR’ for my ADD. I started taking it May 7th with a dosage of 10 mgs. I’ve went up 10 mgs every few days till I was sure to notice a difference. I’m at 50 mgs now. I’m definitely noticing side affects, dry mouth, decreased appetite, etc. However, I’m not noticing any difference as far as attention, processing, focusing in general. I’m trying really hard to hold out but I’m sooo…. at my wits end with this. I feel like my life has pretty much been a stale-mate since graduating high school 8 years ago. I’m ready to get better and I realize it’s takes time. I’ve emailed my doctor about the adderall and he said that I should notice a difference either right away or more subtle and to keep going up. I’ll have to monitor myself for 2 weeks then go in for a check-up with my doc. I should mention that i recently lost a job on the 5th, and have been unemployed since then. Honestly, I have been very inactive since then. I’m not sure but I think this might be why I haven’t noticed much difference. Any thoughts, opinions, at all?
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m male, 26. I weigh about 190 pounds. I was diagnosed with ADD and mild autism when I was 5 or 6. I have improved alot since I was little. But I’ve always struggling with with concentration, focus, processing and retaining information. Since high school, I’ve jumped from job-to-job – some lasted a month, others lasted a few years that I barely held onto by the skin of my teeth. This is the primarily the cause of alot of my anxiety and depression right now. I’m seeing a specialist who treats ADD/ADHD. I trust him and he seems to be knowledgeable. He precribed me on ‘Adderall XR’ for my ADD. I started taking it May 7th with a dosage of 10 mgs. I’ve went up 10 mgs every day till I was sure to notice a difference. I’m at 50 mgs now. I’m definitely noticing side affects, dry mouth, decreased appetite, etc. However, I’m not noticing any difference as far as attention, processing, focusing in general. I’m trying really hard to hold out but I’m sooo…. at my wits end with this. I feel like my life has pretty much been a stale-mate since graduating high school 8 years ago. I’m ready to get better and I realize it’s takes time. I’ve emailed my doctor about the adderall and he said that I should notice a difference either right away or more subtle and to keep going up. I’ll have to monitor myself for 2 weeks then go in for a check-up with my doc. I should mention that i recently lost a job on the 5th, and have been unemployed since then. Honestly, I have been very inactive since then. I’m not sure but I think this might be why I haven’t noticed much difference. Any thoughts, opinions, at all?
I have ADD (inattentive). I started on Adderall a few months ago at the tender age of 52. ;-) It had taken that long for someone to realize I wasn’t just lazy and irresponsible. *sigh* The first day I was on it I felt like someone had hit me in the head with a velvet mallet. Everything slowed down, and I had had no idea that I had been running fast! That first week I started noticing that I could start, work on, and complete tasks. It was amazing. No more paralysis that kept me from putting plans into action. I could also think someone was a jerk but not communicate it to them! That really helped my office work relations. :-P The thing is, I didn’t notice any benefits until I tried doing stuff. Have you tried doing some of the things that have been hard for you in the past? You may not notice the beneficial effects unless you do. I’m on a very low dose (10 mg XR twice a day), and it wasn’t until after three months that I started noticing loss of appetite and trouble sleeping — although the trouble sleeping may be more from the extra caffeine I’m ingesting to stay alert. The Adderall makes me drowsy. For me they shouldn’t call it "speed" but "lassitude." ;-) Dunno if this helps, but I’m glad you’re posting and asking. It may be that you need a different med. Not everyone is wired the same way, and not all of us with funky wiring respond the same way to the same meds. Good luck, and keep posting! Priscilla, ADDult
Response:
The thing is, I didn’t notice any benefits until I tried doing stuff. Have you tried doing some of the things that have been hard for you in the past? You may not notice the beneficial effects unless you do.
I think that might be right. Try doing some stuff and see if it goes better. Also, ask other people if they see a difference. Adders aren’t always the best at self assessment.
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m male, 26. I weigh about 190 pounds. I was diagnosed with ADD and mild autism when I was 5 or 6. I have improved alot since I was little. But I’ve always struggling with with concentration, focus, processing and retaining information. Since high school, I’ve jumped from job-to-job – some lasted a month, others lasted a few years that I barely held onto by the skin of my teeth. This is the primarily the cause of alot of my anxiety and depression right now. I’m seeing a specialist who treats ADD/ADHD. I trust him and he seems to be knowledgeable. He precribed me on ‘Adderall XR’ for my ADD. I started taking it May 7th with a dosage of 10 mgs. I’ve went up 10 mgs every few days till I was sure to notice a difference. I’m at 50 mgs now. I’m definitely noticing side affects, dry mouth, decreased appetite, etc. However, I’m not noticing any difference as far as attention, processing, focusing in general. I’m trying really hard to hold out but I’m sooo…. at my wits end with this. I feel like my life has pretty much been a stale-mate since graduating high school 8 years ago. I’m ready to get better and I realize it’s takes time. I’ve emailed my doctor about the adderall and he said that I should notice a difference either right away or more subtle and to keep going up. I’ll have to monitor myself for 2 weeks then go in for a check-up with my doc. I should mention that i recently lost a job on the 5th, and have been unemployed since then. Honestly, I have been very inactive since then. I’m not sure but I think this might be why I haven’t noticed much difference. Any thoughts, opinions, at all?
I’m taking short-acting Focalin now and I like it, but it’s not a panacea. I think I get more benefit from exercising strenuously three to four times a week. Neither alone is really enough to make me productive — I need both. I’m in nursing school right now, and I’ve also found that when I’m on a break from school, I’m terribly unproductive, I think because I let my schedule provide structure for my life, so with nothing pressing to do, I get nothing done. -Patti
Response:
Question:
LOL! Ok- so that’s what the psychologist at the pain centre feels after a 45 minute appointment: I was too focused it seems….. http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/06/29/duckrabbit.jpg I’d be worried if I had a rabbit resembling that!
And there I was, imagining it to be a duck. … Cordially, RL
Response:
LOL! Ok- so that’s what the psychologist at the pain centre feels after a 45 minute appointment: I was too focused it seems. AAAAARRRRRRRGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHH.
My reaction exactly. Sigh.
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – LOL! Ok- so that’s what the psychologist at the pain centre feels after a 45 minute appointment: I was too focused it seems. I take it that you were not on any ADD meds at the time. Nope, just 0.25mg of IR Xanax(panic disorder): I’d forgotten to renew my Xanax XR prescription and Monday the doc’s office was shut. I have *tried* Ritalin but wasn’t comfortable with the eerie quietness in my head.
And you don’t have ADD. *snort* <sorry Priscilla, who falls asleep on amphetamines
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – LOL! Ok- so that’s what the psychologist at the pain centre feels after a 45 minute appointment: I was too focused it seems. AAAAARRRRRRRGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHH. It used to be possible to purchase cluebats from userfriendly.org, but they seem to be discontinued. I refer folks to this URL when obviously necessary: http://www.hasbro.com/forms/orderform.cfm?prod=Clue&sku=00045 One of these days I’m going to order some spare card decks to give out to the clueless at appropriate times!
Heh. Bob, you may have noticed that my brain tends to work in rather strange ways. And, sometimes my brain makes odd connections–especially when I read a page from the bottom up, as I sometimes do. I clicked on your URL, and saw the order form which included: red die, envelopes, and weapons. My mind started traveling along this path: OK. red dye, envelopes…red dye is used by banks…but why the envelopes? for the bank to put the money and red dye in, before it hands over the money to a bank robber? But what about the weapons? Would a bank just order "weapons" online like that? And why would the bank need cards, to tell the banker, "Thanks. We appreciate your business, please call again."? Then, after puzzling over this for a few seconds, I finally realized what the site was selling. Duh, Nancy. Nancy Unique, like everyone else
Response:
LOL! Ok- so that’s what the psychologist at the pain centre feels after a 45 minute appointment: I was too focused it seems. AAAAARRRRRRRGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHH. My reaction exactly. Sigh.
There’s hope yet: the pain centre’s take on pain is that they aren’t concerned with the "why" or "how" of it, just how to handle the symptoms as well as possible. Maybe they’ll be able to stretch that to cover my ADHD symptoms too, eh? Vashti
Response:
I refer folks to this URL when obviously necessary: http://www.hasbro.com/forms/orderform.cfm?prod=Clue&sku=00045 One of these days I’m going to order some spare card decks to give out to the clueless at appropriate times!
<puts away Magic(TM) cards Hmmm… might scare less people with those! Vashti
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – LOL! Ok- so that’s what the psychologist at the pain centre feels after a 45 minute appointment: I was too focused it seems. I take it that you were not on any ADD meds at the time. Nope, just 0.25mg of IR Xanax(panic disorder): I’d forgotten to renew my Xanax XR prescription and Monday the doc’s office was shut. I have *tried* Ritalin but wasn’t comfortable with the eerie quietness in my head. And you don’t have ADD. *snort* <sorry
<g Well I *had* forgotten to tell the bloke I’d er- forgotten my Xanax XR prescription too, LOL! Priscilla, who falls asleep on amphetamines
Coffee for me. Vashti
Response:
LOL! Ok- so that’s what the psychologist at the pain centre feels after a 45 minute appointment: I was too focused it seems….. http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/06/29/duckrabbit.jpg I’d be worried if I had a rabbit resembling that! And there I was, imagining it to be a duck. …
It isn’t a duck: I turned my sound way up and there was no quack to be heard. It’s a bunny alright. Deformed rabbit anyone?<g Vashti
Response:
<snipped Priscilla, who falls asleep on amphetamines Coffee for me.
You, too, eh? I can drink an entire pot and go to sleep. Kitten
Response:
It isn’t a duck: I turned my sound way up and there was no quack to be heard. It’s a bunny alright. Deformed rabbit anyone?<g
It’s a ‘duck’, Vashti. Get over it. Sheesh. Cordially, RL
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Heh. Bob, you may have noticed that my brain tends to work in rather strange ways. And, sometimes my brain makes odd connections–especially when I read a page from the bottom up, as I sometimes do. I clicked on your URL, and saw the order form which included: red die, envelopes, and weapons. My mind started traveling along this path: OK. red dye, envelopes…red dye is used by banks…but why the envelopes? for the bank to put the money and red dye in, before it hands over the money to a bank robber? But what about the weapons? Would a bank just order "weapons" online like that? And why would the bank need cards, to tell the banker, "Thanks. We appreciate your business, please call again."? Then, after puzzling over this for a few seconds, I finally realized what the site was selling. Duh, Nancy.
OK, when I get "a round tuit", I’ll send you the first card in the deck — Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L To reply, there’s no internet on Mars (yet)! <<< Kaplow Klips & Baffle: http://nira-rocketry.org/Document/MayJun00.pdf www.encompasserve.org/~kaplow_r/ www.nira-rocketry.org www.nar.org S&T is becoming this decades Steve Weaver!
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Heh. Bob, you may have noticed that my brain tends to work in rather strange ways. And, sometimes my brain makes odd connections–especially when I read a page from the bottom up, as I sometimes do. I clicked on your URL, and saw the order form which included: red die, envelopes, and weapons. My mind started traveling along this path: OK. red dye, envelopes…red dye is used by banks…but why the envelopes? for the bank to put the money and red dye in, before it hands over the money to a bank robber? But what about the weapons? Would a bank just order "weapons" online like that? And why would the bank need cards, to tell the banker, "Thanks. We appreciate your business, please call again."? Then, after puzzling over this for a few seconds, I finally realized what the site was selling. Duh, Nancy. OK, when I get "a round tuit", I’ll send you the first card in the deck
That would be great. I’ll then be able to get one of those t-shirts that say, "Unlike you, I have a clue." Nancy Unique, like everyone else
Response:
That would be great. I’ll then be able to get one of those t-shirts that say, "Unlike you, I have a clue."
MothWrangler ’speak’ … Just a wee bit of post-editing to clean things up a bit ( see below ) … That would be great. I’ll then be able to get one of those t-shirts that say, "I have a clue." :-)
)
Response:
That would be great. I’ll then be able to get one of those t-shirts that say, "Unlike you, I have a clue."
Hey, do you think that they stock a t-shirt that fits the RL? The one that says: "Unlike you, I understand what you are saying."
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Heh. Bob, you may have noticed that my brain tends to work in rather strange ways. And, sometimes my brain makes odd connections–especially when I read a page from the bottom up, as I sometimes do. I clicked on your URL, and saw the order form which included: red die, envelopes, and weapons. My mind started traveling along this path: OK. red dye, envelopes…red dye is used by banks…but why the envelopes? for the bank to put the money and red dye in, before it hands over the money to a bank robber? But what about the weapons? Would a bank just order "weapons" online like that? And why would the bank need cards, to tell the banker, "Thanks. We appreciate your business, please call again."? Then, after puzzling over this for a few seconds, I finally realized what the site was selling. Duh, Nancy. OK, when I get "a round tuit", I’ll send you the first card in the deck That would be great. I’ll then be able to get one of those t-shirts that say, "Unlike you, I have a clue."
Bob, Lest you misunderstand: the "you" on the t-shirt doesn’t refer to you. It’s just one of those goofy slogan t-shirts my kids are so fond of. After all, you will have more clues than I have, at least until you pass them all out. Nancy Unique, like everyone else
Response:
Bob, Lest you misunderstand: the "you" on the t-shirt doesn’t refer to you. It’s just one of those goofy slogan t-shirts my kids are so fond of. After all, you will have more clues than I have, at least until you pass them all out.
Re-act much, MothWrangler? You ARE the Goddess of Cluefullness … … that is who you are; … that is what you care about; … that is what you do so well; … that is your strength. I am unworthy of you. The only ‘clue’ that the RL possesses is the ‘ possibility ‘ that I *might* be able to "Understand what you are saying".
Response:
That would be great. I’ll then be able to get one of those t-shirts that say, "Unlike you, I have a clue." Bob, Lest you misunderstand: the "you" on the t-shirt doesn’t refer to you. It’s just one of those goofy slogan t-shirts my kids are so fond of. After all, you will have more clues than I have, at least until you pass them all out.
A fine example of the ‘Wizard of Oz’ Reality. * The lion who is afraid; who lacks courage … * The hydaulic, fluid belmouth of a ‘tin man’; who lacks a heart, a "pump" … * The intellectual, ever thinking, never speaking, forever procrastinating, straw headed ‘Scare-crow’ who lacks a brain … * MothWrangler, the Goddess of Cluefullness who … Bob, Lest you misunderstand: the "you" on the t-shirt doesn’t refer to you. It’s just one of those goofy slogan t-shirts my kids are so fond of. After all, you will have more clues than I have, at least until you pass them all out.
Clued into the "Wizard of Oz" yet, MothWrangler? It would be an honor and my pleasure to walk you through it … The lion is hyper-sensitive and hyper-aware on issues of courage-and-bravery. I mean lions are rilly, rilly into to fearsome, ferocious, bravery. … It’s the *only* thing that they think about, .. it’s the only thing which they care about, … Courage is what the lion DOES in life. … "Courage is what DEFINES the lion" No matter how capable or incompetent any joe-average lion might be. … a non-lion can be strongly confident in assuming/trusting that the "lion" does the ‘courage routine’ far, far, far better than a non-lion. Even hopelessly neurotic lions are far more courageous than non-lions. How come the courageous lion is a whiney, kiss-ass, crybaby, passive-aggressive martyr, eh? Why does the lion insist upon being a snivelling wimp who is completely wrapped up in himself? Heck, Baum wrote a whole book, *attempting* to explain this …. and failed miserably. Let’s not stop there, … Baum wrote books and books and books of childrens stories in a desperate attempt to get his message across and still ‘fucked up’ :- WHY IS THE LION A WHINING CRYBABY, MOTHWRANGLER? … Got a clue, eh? Sure you do. … The lion’s strenght is courage … the lion’s hypersensitivity is courage, .. the lion cares about courage. Implicitly, when it comes to any other issue the " lion " is as useless as tits on a bull. … but when it comes to ‘courage’ the lion is king. So it’s only natural that a lion doubts himself … it’s only natural that a lion is overly concerned that he doesn’t may not *quite* have sufficient courage. It’s only natural that a lion dies a thousand deaths when he discoveres that he has overestimated his own ability in the courage department *without realizing it*. In short, the lion is insecure with being himself. … Which ,of course, is ridiculous because even the most piss poor, mangey, wimpy lion is head-and-shoulders better than anyone else in the courage department. …GUARANTEED !!! It’s exactly the same way with any person. A child is insecure, unskilled, in knowing his or her ’self’. The activity of development growth and maturity is more-or-less about figuring out who one "is"; what one does well; learning how to make use of that individual skill in a broad range of situations; learning to seek out and embrace those situations for which one is best suited and avoid and/or defer with regard to those other situations for which one is a dense, thick headed klutz. … learning to accurately recognize and trust one’s own ability; .. making sure that one’s significant worthwhile ’self’ is perceived, recognized, accepted and used by the society that one lives in … And the list goes on and on and on, eh … Doubting and fearing one’s own ability is as ordinary and human as it gets. … It isn’t bull shit. The awareness is ESSENTIAL. One thing can pretty much be guaranteed, regardless and notwithstanding. … By the time a human has reached adulthood, they know what the do well … they are expert at doing that activity … they have good reason to trust their own skill in that regard. …THIS IS TRUE i . m . p . l . i . c . t . y It holds regardless and independent of what an adult might overtly and/or explicitly appreciates/recognizes. Back to the ‘Wizard of Oz’ The lion DEFINES courage. … the lion is super-sensitized to issues concerning courage … the lion is way, way, too harsh and overcritical of himself concerning issues of courage. The lion is hung up on an artifact of when he was a cub. Same story for the tin man … Same story for the Scarecrow … Same story for Dorothy .. Same story for the ‘Wizard of Oz’, himself Same story for Baum. The ‘Wizard of Oz’ is a story about losers. About people who are losers for the single, specific reason; already described … ~~~ Becoming confused by tunneling into one’s own identity <~~~ Baum’s solution? Click your heels together 3 times and reverse the perspective. Life is a real bitch. … It’s so easy to say; it’s so insanely difficult to do Worst of all, it’s utterly subjective. To be honest, Baum’s solution doesn’t solve the paradox he postulates. What Braun’s ‘failed’ solution does succeed in doing is to demonstrate: There does exist a solution to Baum’s Paradox. … only it ain’t clicking one’s heels together three times. So much for "Ruby, two shoes"… . Cordially, RL
Response:
LOL! Ok- so that’s what the psychologist at the pain centre feels after a 45 minute appointment: I was too focused it seems….. http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/06/29/duckrabbit.jpg
I’d be worried if I had a rabbit resembling that! Vashti
Response:
LOL! Ok- so that’s what the psychologist at the pain centre feels after a 45 minute appointment: I was too focused it seems. AAAAARRRRRRRGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHH. It used to be possible to purchase cluebats from userfriendly.org, but they seem to be discontinued.
I refer folks to this URL when obviously necessary: http://www.hasbro.com/forms/orderform.cfm?prod=Clue&sku=00045 One of these days I’m going to order some spare card decks to give out to the clueless at appropriate times! — Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L To reply, there’s no internet on Mars (yet)! <<< Kaplow Klips & Baffle: http://nira-rocketry.org/Document/MayJun00.pdf www.encompasserve.org/~kaplow_r/ www.nira-rocketry.org www.nar.org S&T is becoming this decades Steve Weaver!
Response:
LOL! Ok- so that’s what the psychologist at the pain centre feels after a 45 minute appointment: I was too focused it seems. Times like that I really wish I could give a running comentary of my thoughts and those distractions, you know? Next appointment his assistant will be giving me a bunch of questionaires to fill in about my mood, pain, sleep and boring stuff like that… none of those fun puzzles the neuropsych gave me years ago. Oh, and a short "IQ" test. Told him I don’t believe in their accuracy, especially with my Lost Word Syndrome – still, he said he was really interested in the results of that one since I didn’t finish secondary education yet seem intelligent. It’s not *that* rare, is it?<g The ergotherapist just talked this time about how I feel I’m coping with the pain, my activity levels(low) etc. Said we might do something fun next time… golly, how exciting! Now I might be scared of him, LOL! Vashti
Response:
LOL! Ok- so that’s what the psychologist at the pain centre feels after a 45 minute appointment: I was too focused it seems…..
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/06/29/duckrabbit.jpg ) Cordially, RL
Response:
LOL! Ok- so that’s what the psychologist at the pain centre feels after a 45 minute appointment: I was too focused it seems.
I take it that you were not on any ADD meds at the time. — Article II of the impeachment charges against President Nixon was warrantless wiretapping
Response:
LOL! Ok- so that’s what the psychologist at the pain centre feels after a 45 minute appointment: I was too focused it seems.
AAAAARRRRRRRGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHH. It used to be possible to purchase cluebats from userfriendly.org, but they seem to be discontinued. Times like that I really wish I could give a running comentary of my thoughts and those distractions, you know? Next appointment his assistant will be giving me a bunch of questionaires to fill in about my mood, pain, sleep and boring stuff like that… none of those fun puzzles the neuropsych gave me years ago. Oh, and a short "IQ" test. Told him I don’t believe in their accuracy, especially with my Lost Word Syndrome – still, he said he was really interested in the results of that one since I didn’t finish secondary education yet seem intelligent. It’s not *that* rare, is it?<g
And he equates education level with intelligence? Seems to me that he exemplifies the lack of correlation. The ergotherapist just talked this time about how I feel I’m coping with the pain, my activity levels(low) etc. Said we might do something fun next time… golly, how exciting! Now I might be scared of him, LOL! Vashti
– –John to email, dial "usenet" and validate (was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
Response:
LOL! Ok- so that’s what the psychologist at the pain centre feels after a 45 minute appointment: I was too focused it seems. AAAAARRRRRRRGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHH. It used to be possible to purchase cluebats from userfriendly.org, but they seem to be discontinued.
<g I’d make do with a clue stick! Of *course* I was focused: this was the first time I’ve spoken with this man and I’m interested in getting into this pain course they’re offering. Times like that I really wish I could give a running comentary of my thoughts and those distractions, you know? Next appointment his assistant will be giving me a bunch of questionaires to fill in about my mood, pain, sleep and boring stuff like that… none of those fun puzzles the neuropsych gave me years ago. Oh, and a short "IQ" test. Told him I don’t believe in their accuracy, especially with my Lost Word Syndrome – still, he said he was really interested in the results of that one since I didn’t finish secondary education yet seem intelligent. It’s not *that* rare, is it?<g And he equates education level with intelligence? Seems to me that he exemplifies the lack of correlation.
I’m not sure if he does, he did seem to feel IQ tests usually depended on formal education to provide meaningful results or something along those lines. I’ve been given an IQ test in the past but didn’t finish it: just skipped to the bits I liked, you know? This short test is meant to take about 30 minutes. Vashti
Response:
LOL! Ok- so that’s what the psychologist at the pain centre feels after a 45 minute appointment: I was too focused it seems. I take it that you were not on any ADD meds at the time.
Nope, just 0.25mg of IR Xanax(panic disorder): I’d forgotten to renew my Xanax XR prescription and Monday the doc’s office was shut. I have *tried* Ritalin but wasn’t comfortable with the eerie quietness in my head. Vashti
Response:
Next page
Previous page