Filed under: Ritalin for ADD and ADHD
Question:
I posted a msg here a few weeks ago, because I had been prescribed Adderall XR. See *snippet* below. I started at 10. I’m at 70 mgs now. I’m definitely feeling side-affects. Weight-loss, dry mouth etc. However, I’m not noticing any difference as far as benefits increased concentration, focus, mood etc. I have asked a couple people if they see any difference, including my gf who knows I have ADD and they don’t notice any changes. I was diagnosed with mild BiPolar 2 by my doctor for which he prescribed ‘Trileptal’. That seemed to help my moods. I was told by my doc to track the med for 2 weeks when I was sure I had reached a dose that worked – He said I should notice a difference either right away or more subtle and to keep going up, I was at 50 mgs. I just started tracking it a couple days ago although I have not noticed a difference. I did email him and let him know. I think it’s gotten to a point where if I had noticed a difference it would’ve been by now. I don’t really see the point of going up to 80. 70 is alot, and I’m skinny enough Any thoughts, opinions? *OLD MESSAGE* I was diagnosed with ADD and mild autism when I was 5 or 6. I have improved alot since I was little. But I’ve always struggling with with concentration, focus, processing and retaining information. Since high school, I’ve jumped from job-to-job – some lasted a month, others lasted a few years that I barely held onto by the skin of my teeth. This is the primarily the cause of alot of my anxiety and depression right now. I’m seeing a specialist who treats ADD/ADHD. I trust him and he seems to be knowledgeable. He precribed me on ‘Adderall XR’ for my ADD. I started taking it May 7th with a dosage of 10 mgs. I’ve went up 10 mgs every day till I was sure to notice a difference. I’m at 50 mgs now. I’m definitely noticing side affects, dry mouth, decreased appetite, etc. However, I’m not noticing any difference as far as attention, processing, focusing in general. I’m trying really hard to hold out but I’m sooo…. at my wits end with this. I feel like my life has pretty much been a stale-mate since graduating high school 8 years ago. I’m ready to get better and I realize it’s takes time. I’ve emailed my doctor about the adderall and he said that I should notice a difference either right away or more subtle and to keep going up. I’ll have to monitor myself for 2 weeks then go in for a check-up with my doc. IAny thoughts, opinions, at all?
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I posted a msg here a few weeks ago, because I had been prescribed Adderall XR. See *snippet* below. I started at 10. I’m at 70 mgs now. I’m definitely feeling side-affects. Weight-loss, dry mouth etc. However, I’m not noticing any difference as far as benefits increased concentration, focus, mood etc. I have asked a couple people if they see any difference, including my gf who knows I have ADD and they don’t notice any changes. I was diagnosed with mild BiPolar 2 by my doctor for which he prescribed ‘Trileptal’. That seemed to help my moods. I was told by my doc to track the med for 2 weeks when I was sure I had reached a dose that worked – He said I should notice a difference either right away or more subtle and to keep going up, I was at 50 mgs. I just started tracking it a couple days ago although I have not noticed a difference. I did email him and let him know. I think it’s gotten to a point where if I had noticed a difference it would’ve been by now. I don’t really see the point of going up to 80. 70 is alot, and I’m skinny enough Any thoughts, opinions?
I know that different people respond to different meds. Perhaps it’s time to try something else? Priscilla, ADDult, Adderall XR 2 x 10 mg
Response:
I’m in the same boat as you. I was on Ritalin when I was younger and have been on Adderall for 3 months, first med since going back to doctor and admitting to myself that smoking weed and 3 Energy Drinks a day weren’t helping. I’ve had no issues wanting to smoke grass or take caffeine anymore, but I’m taking 2 30’s a day and am curious why you are up to 70 with 10 MG pills. The 30’s just kick my ass unless I eat a bite and take it half an hour later. If I take it on an empty stomach then I’m hosed, I’m so focused all day no one even talks to me. People are noticing differences in my case. I’m much more serious, not nearly as funny, which is my reason for quitting when I was younger, I wanted to be life of party again. Now that I’m married, and it’s getting hard for this marriage to work because my symptoms in relationships are coming to a head again. It’s doesn’t seem fair that I am this way, and I’m tired of hurting people with my lashing out and mood swings. However, since I quit taking the adderal, I’m feeling the depression and misundertanding people alot. I’ve even considered getting some drugs that I haven’t used in years again, perhaps the adderal just kicked something in that is pushing the addiction buttons again, which makes me wonder how I can ever beat this cycle. I may lose my wife over this crap, which doesn’t surprise me, I have lost alot because of who I am and how I don’t understand how to stop the cycle. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I posted a msg here a few weeks ago, because I had been prescribed Adderall XR. See *snippet* below. I started at 10. I’m at 70 mgs now. I’m definitely feeling side-affects. Weight-loss, dry mouth etc. However, I’m not noticing any difference as far as benefits increased concentration, focus, mood etc. I have asked a couple people if they see any difference, including my gf who knows I have ADD and they don’t notice any changes. I was diagnosed with mild BiPolar 2 by my doctor for which he prescribed ‘Trileptal’. That seemed to help my moods. I was told by my doc to track the med for 2 weeks when I was sure I had reached a dose that worked – He said I should notice a difference either right away or more subtle and to keep going up, I was at 50 mgs. I just started tracking it a couple days ago although I have not noticed a difference. I did email him and let him know. I think it’s gotten to a point where if I had noticed a difference it would’ve been by now. I don’t really see the point of going up to 80. 70 is alot, and I’m skinny enough Any thoughts, opinions? *OLD MESSAGE* I was diagnosed with ADD and mild autism when I was 5 or 6. I have improved alot since I was little. But I’ve always struggling with with concentration, focus, processing and retaining information. Since high school, I’ve jumped from job-to-job – some lasted a month, others lasted a few years that I barely held onto by the skin of my teeth. This is the primarily the cause of alot of my anxiety and depression right now. I’m seeing a specialist who treats ADD/ADHD. I trust him and he seems to be knowledgeable. He precribed me on ‘Adderall XR’ for my ADD. I started taking it May 7th with a dosage of 10 mgs. I’ve went up 10 mgs every day till I was sure to notice a difference. I’m at 50 mgs now. I’m definitely noticing side affects, dry mouth, decreased appetite, etc. However, I’m not noticing any difference as far as attention, processing, focusing in general. I’m trying really hard to hold out but I’m sooo…. at my wits end with this. I feel like my life has pretty much been a stale-mate since graduating high school 8 years ago. I’m ready to get better and I realize it’s takes time. I’ve emailed my doctor about the adderall and he said that I should notice a difference either right away or more subtle and to keep going up. I’ll have to monitor myself for 2 weeks then go in for a check-up with my doc. IAny thoughts, opinions, at all?
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m in the same boat as you. I was on Ritalin when I was younger and have been on Adderall for 3 months, first med since going back to doctor and admitting to myself that smoking weed and 3 Energy Drinks a day weren’t helping. I’ve had no issues wanting to smoke grass or take caffeine anymore, but I’m taking 2 30’s a day and am curious why you are up to 70 with 10 MG pills. The 30’s just kick my ass unless I eat a bite and take it half an hour later. If I take it on an empty stomach then I’m hosed, I’m so focused all day no one even talks to me. People are noticing differences in my case. I’m much more serious, not nearly as funny, which is my reason for quitting when I was younger, I wanted to be life of party again. Now that I’m married, and it’s getting hard for this marriage to work because my symptoms in relationships are coming to a head again. It’s doesn’t seem fair that I am this way, and I’m tired of hurting people with my lashing out and mood swings. However, since I quit taking the adderal, I’m feeling the depression and misundertanding people alot. I’ve even considered getting some drugs that I haven’t used in years again, perhaps the adderal just kicked something in that is pushing the addiction buttons again, which makes me wonder how I can ever beat this cycle. I may lose my wife over this crap, which doesn’t surprise me, I have lost alot because of who I am and how I don’t understand how to stop the cycle.
Have you considered talking to a professional? Or trying a 12 step program? Priscilla
Response:
Of course! 2 DUI’s will get you the gammat of therapy. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m in the same boat as you. I was on Ritalin when I was younger and have been on Adderall for 3 months, first med since going back to doctor and admitting to myself that smoking weed and 3 Energy Drinks a day weren’t helping. I’ve had no issues wanting to smoke grass or take caffeine anymore, but I’m taking 2 30’s a day and am curious why you are up to 70 with 10 MG pills. The 30’s just kick my ass unless I eat a bite and take it half an hour later. If I take it on an empty stomach then I’m hosed, I’m so focused all day no one even talks to me. People are noticing differences in my case. I’m much more serious, not nearly as funny, which is my reason for quitting when I was younger, I wanted to be life of party again. Now that I’m married, and it’s getting hard for this marriage to work because my symptoms in relationships are coming to a head again. It’s doesn’t seem fair that I am this way, and I’m tired of hurting people with my lashing out and mood swings. However, since I quit taking the adderal, I’m feeling the depression and misundertanding people alot. I’ve even considered getting some drugs that I haven’t used in years again, perhaps the adderal just kicked something in that is pushing the addiction buttons again, which makes me wonder how I can ever beat this cycle. I may lose my wife over this crap, which doesn’t surprise me, I have lost alot because of who I am and how I don’t understand how to stop the cycle. Have you considered talking to a professional? Or trying a 12 step program? Priscilla
Response:
Question:
Hi all… Is there a good site that has referral information on doctors who treat ADD/ADHD? Would be helpful if anyone knew a psychiatrist or psychologist, or both, in Phoenix Metro area, of Arizona?
Response:
Hi all… Is there a good site that has referral information on doctors who treat ADD/ADHD? Would be helpful if anyone knew a psychiatrist or psychologist, or both, in Phoenix Metro area, of Arizona?
Well, you could start at www.chadd.org. Look also in the appendexis of some well known books on ADD: Driven to Distraction by Dr’s Ned Hallowell and John Ratey. There’s also You Mean I’m not Lazy, Stupid or Crazy?! by Kate Kelly and Peggy Ramundo. There’s that book my Thom Hartmann – I think it’s called The ADDed Dimension. Also, try google. I used keywords 
hoenix, psychiatrist, ADHD – and the results look promising. I can do more digging if you like – just ask 
-stan
Response:
Hi all… Is there a good site that has referral information on doctors who treat ADD/ADHD? Would be helpful if anyone knew a psychiatrist or psychologist, or both, in Phoenix Metro area, of Arizona? Well, you could start at www.chadd.org.
http://namiscc.org/News/2002/Fall/DEAonRitalin.htm CHADD, non-profit organization, which promotes the use of Ritalin, also receives a great deal of money from the drug manufacturer of Ritalin. CHADD does not inform its members of the abuse problems of Ritalin. CHADD portrays the drug as a benign, mild stimulant that is not associated with abuse of serious side-effects. Statements by CHADD are inconsistent with scientific literature. The International Narcotics Control Board expressed concern that CHADD is actively lobbying for the use of Ritalin in children. http://brainwavecenter.com/library/dea/dea3.htm It has recently come to the attention of the DEA, that Ciba-Geigy (the manufacturer of the methylphenidate product marketed under the brand named Ritalin) contributed $748,000 to CHADD from 1991 to 1994. 26 The DEA has concerns that the depth of the financial relationship with the manufacturer was not well-known by the public, including CHADD members that have relied upon CHADD for guidance as it pertains to the diagnosis and treatment or their children. A recent communication from the United Nations International Narcotics Control Board (INCB), expressed concern about non-governmental organizations and parental associations in the United States that are actively lobbying for the medical use of methylphenidate for children with ADHD. The INCB further stated that "financial transfer from a pharmaceutical company with the purpose to promote sales of an internationally controlled substance would be identified as hidden advertisement and in contradiction with the provisions of the 1971 Convention (Article 10, para 2)." In 1993 and 1994 when Ciba-Geigy warned of an impending shortage of Ritalin, CHADD was active in having its members write their Congressional Representatives to complain about the situation. In letters to members and interviews with the media, CHADD officials also were active in perpetuating concerns that a shortage of Ritalin was imminent. The DEA received more than 135 inquiries from Congressional Representatives. In these communications, CHADD routinely referred to a "Ritalin shortage" as opposed to a "methylphenidate shortage." The relationship between Ciba-Geigy and CHADD raises serious concerns about CHADD’s motive in proselytizing the use of Ritalin through the use of the brand name as opposed to the generic name methylphenidate in its literature. In conjunction with the American Academy of Neurology, CHADD has submitted a petition to reschedule methylphenidate from Schedule II to Schedule III under the Controlled Substances Act. Ciba-Geigy stands to benefit from a change in scheduling of methylphenidate. However, CHADD denies that the financial contributions received from Ciba-Geigy have any relationship to the scheduling petition. Look also in – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – the appendexis of some well known books on ADD: Driven to Distraction by Dr’s Ned Hallowell and John Ratey. There’s also You Mean I’m not Lazy, Stupid or Crazy?! by Kate Kelly and Peggy Ramundo. There’s that book my Thom Hartmann – I think it’s called The ADDed Dimension. Also, try google. I used keywords hoenix, psychiatrist, ADHD – and the results look promising. I can do more digging if you like – just ask -stan
Response:
Hi all… Is there a good site that has referral information on doctors who treat ADD/ADHD? Would be helpful if anyone knew a psychiatrist or psychologist, or both, in Phoenix Metro area, of Arizona?
In addition to CHADD recommended in another post, which has a professional directory on its site, check the directory at Terry Matlen’s site, ADD Consults http://addconsults.com/ Nancy Unique, like everyone else
Response:
Hi all… Is there a good site that has referral information on doctors who treat ADD/ADHD? Would be helpful if anyone knew a psychiatrist or psychologist, or both, in Phoenix Metro area, of Arizona? In addition to CHADD recommended in another post, which has a professional directory on its site, check the directory at Terry Matlen’s site, ADD Consults <snip spam
The truth about CHADD. http://namiscc.org/News/2002/Fall/DEAonRitalin.htm CHADD, non-profit organization, which promotes the use of Ritalin, also receives a great deal of money from the drug manufacturer of Ritalin. CHADD does not inform its members of the abuse problems of Ritalin. CHADD portrays the drug as a benign, mild stimulant that is not associated with abuse of serious side-effects. Statements by CHADD are inconsistent with scientific literature. The International Narcotics Control Board expressed concern that CHADD is actively lobbying for the use of Ritalin in children. http://brainwavecenter.com/library/dea/dea3.htm It has recently come to the attention of the DEA, that Ciba-Geigy (the manufacturer of the methylphenidate product marketed under the brand named Ritalin) contributed $748,000 to CHADD from 1991 to 1994. 26 The DEA has concerns that the depth of the financial relationship with the manufacturer was not well-known by the public, including CHADD members that have relied upon CHADD for guidance as it pertains to the diagnosis and treatment or their children. A recent communication from the United Nations International Narcotics Control Board (INCB), expressed concern about non-governmental organizations and parental associations in the United States that are actively lobbying for the medical use of methylphenidate for children with ADHD. The INCB further stated that "financial transfer from a pharmaceutical company with the purpose to promote sales of an internationally controlled substance would be identified as hidden advertisement and in contradiction with the provisions of the 1971 Convention (Article 10, para 2)." In 1993 and 1994 when Ciba-Geigy warned of an impending shortage of Ritalin, CHADD was active in having its members write their Congressional Representatives to complain about the situation. In letters to members and interviews with the media, CHADD officials also were active in perpetuating concerns that a shortage of Ritalin was imminent. The DEA received more than 135 inquiries from Congressional Representatives. In these communications, CHADD routinely referred to a "Ritalin shortage" as opposed to a "methylphenidate shortage." The relationship between Ciba-Geigy and CHADD raises serious concerns about CHADD’s motive in proselytizing the use of Ritalin through the use of the brand name as opposed to the generic name methylphenidate in its literature. In conjunction with the American Academy of Neurology, CHADD has submitted a petition to reschedule methylphenidate from Schedule II to Schedule III under the Controlled Substances Act. Ciba-Geigy stands to benefit from a change in scheduling of methylphenidate. However, CHADD denies that the financial contributions received from Ciba-Geigy have any relationship to the scheduling petition. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Nancy Unique, like everyone else
Response:
Jan Drew wrote; CHADD, non-profit organization, which promotes the use of ___, also receives a great deal of money from the ___ manufacturer of ___. CHADD does not inform its members of the ___ problems of ___. CHADD portrays the ___ as a benign, mild ____ that is not associated with ____ of serious ____. Statements by CHADD are inconsistent with scientific literature.
Could one substitute a political party such as Democrat, Republican, Liberal, Conservative, Green, Raving Loonie … for CHADD? How clever. Cordially, RL
Response:
Jan Drew wrote; CHADD, non-profit organization, which promotes the use of ___, also receives a great deal of money from the ___ manufacturer of ___. CHADD does not inform its members of the ___ problems of ___. CHADD portrays the ___ as a benign, mild ____ that is not associated with ____ of serious ____. Statements by CHADD are inconsistent with scientific literature.
The truth about CHADD. http://namiscc.org/News/2002/Fall/DEAonRitalin.htm CHADD, non-profit organization, which promotes the use of Ritalin, also receives a great deal of money from the drug manufacturer of Ritalin. CHADD does not inform its members of the abuse problems of Ritalin. CHADD portrays the drug as a benign, mild stimulant that is not associated with abuse of serious side-effects. Statements by CHADD are inconsistent with scientific literature. The International Narcotics Control Board expressed concern that CHADD is actively lobbying for the use of Ritalin in children. http://brainwavecenter.com/library/dea/dea3.htm It has recently come to the attention of the DEA, that Ciba-Geigy (the manufacturer of the methylphenidate product marketed under the brand named Ritalin) contributed $748,000 to CHADD from 1991 to 1994. 26 The DEA has concerns that the depth of the financial relationship with the manufacturer was not well-known by the public, including CHADD members that have relied upon CHADD for guidance as it pertains to the diagnosis and treatment or their children. A recent communication from the United Nations International Narcotics Control Board (INCB), expressed concern about non-governmental organizations and parental associations in the United States that are actively lobbying for the medical use of methylphenidate for children with ADHD. The INCB further stated that "financial transfer from a pharmaceutical company with the purpose to promote sales of an internationally controlled substance would be identified as hidden advertisement and in contradiction with the provisions of the 1971 Convention (Article 10, para 2)." In 1993 and 1994 when Ciba-Geigy warned of an impending shortage of Ritalin, CHADD was active in having its members write their Congressional Representatives to complain about the situation. In letters to members and interviews with the media, CHADD officials also were active in perpetuating concerns that a shortage of Ritalin was imminent. The DEA received more than 135 inquiries from Congressional Representatives. In these communications, CHADD routinely referred to a "Ritalin shortage" as opposed to a "methylphenidate shortage." The relationship between Ciba-Geigy and CHADD raises serious concerns about CHADD’s motive in proselytizing the use of Ritalin through the use of the brand name as opposed to the generic name methylphenidate in its literature. In conjunction with the American Academy of Neurology, CHADD has submitted a petition to reschedule methylphenidate from Schedule II to Schedule III under the Controlled Substances Act. Ciba-Geigy stands to benefit from a change in scheduling of methylphenidate. However, CHADD denies that the financial contributions received from Ciba-Geigy have any relationship to the scheduling petition. Could one substitute a political party such as Democrat, Republican, Liberal, Conservative, Green, Raving Loonie … for CHADD?
No. Irrelevant. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – How clever. Cordially, RL
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Jan Drew wrote; CHADD, non-profit organization, which promotes the use of ___, also receives a great deal of money from the ___ manufacturer of ___. CHADD does not inform its members of the ___ problems of ___. CHADD portrays the ___ as a benign, mild ____ that is not associated with ____ of serious ____. Statements by CHADD are inconsistent with scientific literature. The truth about CHADD. http://namiscc.org/News/2002/Fall/DEAonRitalin.htm CHADD, non-profit organization, which promotes the use of Ritalin, also receives a great deal of money from the drug manufacturer of Ritalin. CHADD does not inform its members of the abuse problems of Ritalin. CHADD portrays the drug as a benign, mild stimulant that is not associated with abuse of serious side-effects. Statements by CHADD are inconsistent with scientific literature. The International Narcotics Control Board expressed concern that CHADD is actively lobbying for the use of Ritalin in children. http://brainwavecenter.com/library/dea/dea3.htm It has recently come to the attention of the DEA, that Ciba-Geigy (the manufacturer of the methylphenidate product marketed under the brand named …
[snipped for brevity] Could one substitute a political party such as Democrat, Republican, Liberal, Conservative, Green, Raving Loonie … for CHADD? No. Irrelevant.
Always a fight the ‘focus of awareness’, eh … Where shall we direct our gaze? I have ADD. Stimulants such as Ritalin, help to direct the focus of my attention. That’s what drugging kiddies is all about. )))) Cordially, RL
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi all… Is there a good site that has referral information on doctors who treat ADD/ADHD? Would be helpful if anyone knew a psychiatrist or psychologist, or both, in Phoenix Metro area, of Arizona? Well, you could start at www.chadd.org. http://namiscc.org/News/2002/Fall/DEAonRitalin.htm CHADD, non-profit organization, which promotes the use of Ritalin, also receives a great deal of money from the drug manufacturer of Ritalin. CHADD does not inform its members of the abuse problems of Ritalin. CHADD portrays the drug as a benign, mild stimulant that is not associated with abuse of serious side-effects. Statements by CHADD are inconsistent with scientific literature. The International Narcotics Control Board expressed concern that CHADD is actively lobbying for the use of Ritalin in children. http://brainwavecenter.com/library/dea/dea3.htm It has recently come to the attention of the DEA, that Ciba-Geigy (the manufacturer of the methylphenidate product marketed under the brand named Ritalin) contributed $748,000 to CHADD from 1991 to 1994. 26 The DEA has concerns that the depth of the financial relationship with the manufacturer was not well-known by the public, including CHADD members that have relied upon CHADD for guidance as it pertains to the diagnosis and treatment or their children. A recent communication from the United Nations International Narcotics Control Board (INCB), expressed concern about non-governmental organizations and parental associations in the United States that are actively lobbying for the medical use of methylphenidate for children with ADHD. The INCB further stated that "financial transfer from a pharmaceutical company with the purpose to promote sales of an internationally controlled substance would be identified as hidden advertisement and in contradiction with the provisions of the 1971 Convention (Article 10, para 2)." In 1993 and 1994 when Ciba-Geigy warned of an impending shortage of Ritalin, CHADD was active in having its members write their Congressional Representatives to complain about the situation. In letters to members and interviews with the media, CHADD officials also were active in perpetuating concerns that a shortage of Ritalin was imminent. The DEA received more than 135 inquiries from Congressional Representatives. In these communications, CHADD routinely referred to a "Ritalin shortage" as opposed to a "methylphenidate shortage." The relationship between Ciba-Geigy and CHADD raises serious concerns about CHADD’s motive in proselytizing the use of Ritalin through the use of the brand name as opposed to the generic name methylphenidate in its literature. In conjunction with the American Academy of Neurology, CHADD has submitted a petition to reschedule methylphenidate from Schedule II to Schedule III under the Controlled Substances Act. Ciba-Geigy stands to benefit from a change in scheduling of methylphenidate. However, CHADD denies that the financial contributions received from Ciba-Geigy have any relationship to the scheduling petition.
"The noblest of all dogs is the hot-dog; it feeds the hand that bites it." ~ Laurence J Peter ~
Response:
Question:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It wasn’t a dark and stormy night when Caitriona Mac Fhiodhbhuidhe It wasn’t a dark and stormy night when Caitriona Mac Fhiodhbhuidhe <snipped of stuff to reply to later, after I get back from picking up TF from work – he blew a head gasket on Monday Please tell me this gasket was vehicular in nature! Yep.
Question:
Did any of you ever use amantadine for treating ADD/ADHD? If yes, what were your experiences? I’d like to know because I just started on Relatine MR, but it makes me a little nervous and am curious about alternatives. Best regards, Francis
Response:
Did any of you ever use amantadine for treating ADD/ADHD? If yes, what were your experiences?
I’m sorry, I’ve not heard of that med. Is it also known under a different name perhaps? I’d like to know because I just started on Relatine MR, but it makes me a little nervous and am curious about alternatives.
You mean Ritalin? You’re not from Belgium are you, I’ve only seen Belgian’s writing "Relatine". Maybe I’m missing something but I can’t place the "MR", is that a slow release or regular release? Vashti
Response:
I’m from Belgium yes. The medication is called "Rilatine Modified Release 20 mg". I’m not sure whether compares to Ritalin SR or Ritaline LA.
Response:
Amantadine is mentioned in the book "Delivered from Distraction" by Hallowell. It’s an antiviral medicin that also happens to stimulate the production of dopamine. In this book a certain Dr William Singer is claimed to have treated 400 patients with amantadine with excellent results. Amantadine would have many advantages: – lasts 24 hours – helps with executive functioning (people get started instead of procrastinating) – no abuse potential – not a controlled substance – fewer side effects than stimulant meds – helps symptoms related to sensory integration disorder, which often occur in people who have ADD
Response:
I’m from Belgium yes. The medication is called "Rilatine Modified Release 20 mg". I’m not sure whether compares to Ritalin SR or Ritaline LA.
Ok, now I *really* feel like moving over there! I’ve not heard of that being released here in The Netherlands yet, Concerta arrived here a few years ago but isn’t covered under most normal insurance… those deciding which meds to cover decided Concerta "doesn’t have any added benefit over Ritalin". 
Thanks for the post about Amantadine, sounds like a med that needs looking into further. Oh, another med we don’t have here is Reboxetine… can’t recall the other name it’s known under but I’ve heard of ADHDers in Belgium trying it out, it’s supposed to work in a similar manner as Strattera but it’s been available for quite a while. Vashti
Response:
Question:
How does it look? I haven’t had the mental energy to figure out if this client has that ability or find one that does myself yet, just recall I used to do the same with Xnews way back when in my Windows days. Well, it’s only been a few minutes so far. I’ll come back and see what happens after a few hours.
Hope it works for you. I liked the method cause it would still let me read regulars who occasionally reply to crossposts I’d rather not see. In the case of such threads that aren’t crossposted I’d set up a filter to block them and replies to them, can’t recall how right now. I have a global filter against posts x-posted 5 or more times (IIRC), but this one just filters against anything with that one newsgroup included. I’m not sure if it’s actually working.
IIRC OE only allows crossposts to a certain group to be filtered if one first *subscribes* to that group, I could be wrong since OE was longer ago than Xnews was. Being subscribed to a group won’t force one to read it thank goodness. If your global x-post filter is set at 5 I’d change it to three: for some reason that seems to be the magic number though I can’t remember ever having seen anything worthwile x-posted to more than 2 groups. Vashti
Response:
I am wondering if any adult here is actually having good long term results from treatment(s) for ADHD/ADD?
OK, I’ll answer, although I feel a bit ordered about. I have had really good results from generic Ritalin – I take 40 mg a day and have for several years. I also take antidepressants for depression and it all seems to work well together. How about you?
Response:
Vic, like me, has been diagnosed with adult AD/HD. He comes to a newsgroup supposedly offering ’support’, then he asks a few open questions in what is clearly an attempt to start a dialogue. And you jump on him for it.
Well, I did answer him, but I can see why he got the reception he did. He was barking orders at us. You ask for help by asking, not instructing.
Response:
Vic, like me, has been diagnosed with adult AD/HD. He comes to a newsgroup supposedly offering ’support’, then he asks a few open questions in what is clearly an attempt to start a dialogue. And you jump on him for it. Well, I did answer him, but I can see why he got the reception he did. He was barking orders at us. You ask for help by asking, not instructing.
I’ve known Vic for a while, so I guess I’ve got used to his style. Trust me, he’s one of the good guys. — Beo
Question:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My gp /doctor is suggesting prozac for me for depression. I am worried – I take dexedrine with ritalin (my doc does not know this – he think i take ritalin alone) (I think there’s an interaction – what should I do?) I have read some articles that prozac is used to treat ADHD in some people. This I find fascinating … perhaps affecting seretonin could be really helpful to some of use. DOES ANYONE HAVE ANY INFO OR EXPERIENCE, PLEASE!?
ANOTHER UPDATE Day 3 on (generic) prozac evening: I am feeling REALY REALLY REALLY happy, it’s un-natural – doing stuff I enjoy doing & getting pleasure from it. I’ve had 1-to-1 sesions with a psychiatrists every week for the past few weeks – this has helped me resolve some issues. (this sort of happiness is starting to remind me of how happy I was when I took ecstasy – stopped about 2 years ago) (happiness MAINLY because my concentration has improved *VASTLY* .. who knows why? because depression made concentration worse? or maybe prozac even helps with ADHD.. no.. surely this would be well documented..) (btw – this happiness is probably just ‘normal’.. well I can’t believe I was so apprehensive about taking this.)
Response:
Guys , I am still pretty shocked at the profound effect of fluoxetine on my attention span The ritalin wore off hours ago (I took the one 10mg ritalin pill about 10 hours ago) and my concentration is very good. I am actually studying degree level neurobiology and it’s going really well… I have been doing some googling, and I found this: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&… (1: J Am Acad Child Adolesc Psychiatry. 1991 Sep;30(5):762-7 Treatment of ADHD with fluoxetine: a preliminary trial)
Response:
ANOTHER UPDATE Day 3 on (generic) prozac evening: I am feeling REALY REALLY REALLY happy, it’s un-natural – doing stuff I enjoy doing & getting pleasure from it. I’ve had 1-to-1 sesions with a psychiatrists every week for the past few weeks – this has helped me resolve some issues. (this sort of happiness is starting to remind me of how happy I was when I took ecstasy – stopped about 2 years ago)
Is there any possibility you are going manic? This seems a bit extreme.
Response:
I tried Prozac, it made me allergic and anxious. I tried Celexa, it made me happy, but no help with cogntion. I tried Ritalin with Dex, it made me break out in a terrible rash. I tried Ritalin and Celexa, it made me break out in a terrible rash. I tried Wellbutrin, it made me motiviated, but elevated my BP, and makde my hair fall out. I tried Adderall, it made me moody with irregular heart beat. I tried Dexadrine, it works very well, and it is transparent, no adverse events, other than rebound fatigue. I take a relatively low dose, ~ 17.5 mg/day. I exercise regularly, spincycle, running, and yoga. I have no trouble sleeping. I need an ADD physician ASAP in NYC. Suggestions? My name is Virginia Hooper. I still live in New York City. But I almost died. I filed reports of abuse with the New York State Office of Physician Conduct. They are giving me the run-around. I think they are likely guilty of criminal activity. No joke.
Response:
Ps. I heard a news report yesterday commenting on the fact if there is any kinkd of Domestic Violence in a household, likely, the children are abused, too. There was Domestic Violence in my house when I was a child, but my parents NEVER abused me. My extended family DID abuse me, emotionally, and took advantage of me financially, after my parents died.
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – ANOTHER UPDATE Day 3 on (generic) prozac evening: I am feeling REALY REALLY REALLY happy, it’s un-natural – doing stuff I enjoy doing & getting pleasure from it. I’ve had 1-to-1 sesions with a psychiatrists every week for the past few weeks – this has helped me resolve some issues. (this sort of happiness is starting to remind me of how happy I was when I took ecstasy – stopped about 2 years ago) Is there any possibility you are going manic? This seems a bit extreme.
It’s a bit quick too: normally one would expect a response to an SSRI to take roughly 2-6 weeks to appear. Got to say that when I tried Effexor XR I felt what to me seemed "unnaturally" cheerful after a few weeks, I made an emergency appointment with my doc just in case but it wasn’t mania, just the relief I suppose along with the extra energy maybe? It wore off soon enough but it’s best checked out IMO. Vashti
Response:
I don’t know if this was caused by my particular chemistry, or if it has anything to do with the meds themselves, but I do know it’s something to watch for. Numbness isn’t a lot better than depression. But if flouxetine (generic Prozac) *only* prevents the reuptake of Seretonin I can’t see it being a problem… (well that’s the theory anyway)
Few if any drugs simply do just the one specific thing which is their labelled purpose. Fluoxetine, for example, has effects on depression which far outlast what it does to serotonin re-uptake, so there’s clearly more than that going on, although AFIAK considerable research has failed to discover what. And it has some immediate mild stimulant effects which take effect before the serotonin re-uptake could have started having effects, so there’s something else going on there too. — IPAB, Informatics, JCMB, King’s Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK [http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/]
Response:
I have read some articles that prozac is used to treat ADHD in some people. This I find fascinating … perhaps affecting seretonin could be really helpful to some of use. DOES ANYONE HAVE ANY INFO OR EXPERIENCE, PLEASE!?
My understanding is that this off-label use of Prozac was exploiting its immediate mild stimulant side-effects rather than its effects on serotonin, hence the different dosage regime in this use compared to its use as an antidepressant. — IPAB, Informatics, JCMB, King’s Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK [http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/]
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – ANOTHER UPDATE Day 3 on (generic) prozac evening: I am feeling REALY REALLY REALLY happy, it’s un-natural – doing stuff I enjoy doing & getting pleasure from it. I’ve had 1-to-1 sesions with a psychiatrists every week for the past few weeks – this has helped me resolve some issues. (this sort of happiness is starting to remind me of how happy I was when I took ecstasy – stopped about 2 years ago) Is there any possibility you are going manic? This seems a bit extreme. It’s a bit quick too: normally one would expect a response to an SSRI to take roughly 2-6 weeks to appear.
Not the stimulant side-effects which AFAIK is what are being exploited in its off-label use to treat ADD. Got to say that when I tried Effexor XR I felt what to me seemed "unnaturally" cheerful after a few weeks, I made an emergency appointment with my doc just in case but it wasn’t mania, just the relief I suppose along with the extra energy maybe? It wore off soon enough but it’s best checked out IMO.
I found in the short term that St John’s Wort improved my concentration and my natural tendency to shrink from social contact with people I don’t know well, but in the longer term it stopped helping because I became so happy and carefree that I stopped caring about keeping up with boring responsibilities like paying bills — IPAB, Informatics, JCMB, King’s Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK [http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/]
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – ANOTHER UPDATE Day 3 on (generic) prozac evening: I am feeling REALY REALLY REALLY happy, it’s un-natural – doing stuff I enjoy doing & getting pleasure from it. I’ve had 1-to-1 sesions with a psychiatrists every week for the past few weeks – this has helped me resolve some issues. (this sort of happiness is starting to remind me of how happy I was when I took ecstasy – stopped about 2 years ago) (happiness MAINLY because my concentration has improved *VASTLY* .. who knows why? because depression made concentration worse? or maybe prozac even helps with ADHD.. no.. surely this would be well documented..) (btw – this happiness is probably just ‘normal’.. well I can’t believe I was so apprehensive about taking this.)
You know, I don’t want to put a damper on this. It’s perfectly normal to feel uplifted when a heavy weight’s been removed. You might be feeling exactly that, and should be happy with that and revel in it. But, two things that you need to be aware of: 1) if everything is working normally, this might not last. Be ready for that. Doctors accept that it takes up to twelve weeks to fully assess the effects of an antidepressant, and 2) if you have bipolar disorder, SSRIs will be likely to make you swing manic. Please, keep seeing your psychiatrist every week. Bipolar disorder and ADHD can look similar. Good luck; I hope the good news continues. — Everything I needed to know in life I learned in Kindergarten. Like: Beauty has a beginning, and an ending, but always lives beyond its span, in the hearts of many.
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Guys , I am still pretty shocked at the profound effect of fluoxetine on my attention span The ritalin wore off hours ago (I took the one 10mg ritalin pill about 10 hours ago) and my concentration is very good. I am actually studying degree level neurobiology and it’s going really well… I have been doing some googling, and I found this: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&… (1: J Am Acad Child Adolesc Psychiatry. 1991 Sep;30(5):762-7 Treatment of ADHD with fluoxetine: a preliminary trial)
UPDATE ON PROZAC: Thanks to everyone for their replies – No longer getting ‘extreme’ happiness for no reason – Think the happiness was due to me being able to focus, not being depressed etc. – I’m more sociable – But yesterday my whole body felt weak and I was very faint (may have nothing to do with the medication though) – This ‘morning’ when I woke up I couldn’t move (but could be a normal morning..) – Possibly causing insomnia – Possibly – don’t feel hungry as much My focus had improved loads though.. being depressed (to that level) is AWFUL. I am certain that prozac is helping relieve ADHD symptoms.. Thing is I am mixing drugs AM – Prozac, 5mg Ritalin, 2.5mg Dexedrine (all at the same time) PM – 5mg Ritalin, 2.5mg Dexedrine (all at the same time) EVENING – 10mg Ritalin
Response:
2) if you have bipolar disorder, SSRIs will be likely to make you swing manic. Please, keep seeing your psychiatrist every week. Bipolar disorder and ADHD can look similar.
Thanks for the info.
Response:
My gp /doctor is suggesting prozac for me for depression. I am worried – I take dexedrine with ritalin (my doc does not know this – he think i take ritalin alone) (I think there’s an interaction – what should I do?) I have read some articles that prozac is used to treat ADHD in some people. This I find fascinating … perhaps affecting seretonin could be really helpful to some of use. DOES ANYONE HAVE ANY INFO OR EXPERIENCE, PLEASE!?
Response:
My gp /doctor is suggesting prozac for me for depression. I am worried – I take dexedrine with ritalin (my doc does not know this – he think i take ritalin alone) (I think there’s an interaction – what should I do?)
Get a referral to a psychiatrist and *tell* him you’re taking the dexedrine… ideally you should also tell your GP, he needs to know which meds you are using and even nutritional supplements can interact with prescribed meds. A psychiatrist is in a better position to help you with your depression and ADHD. I have read some articles that prozac is used to treat ADHD in some people. This I find fascinating … perhaps affecting seretonin could be really helpful to some of use. DOES ANYONE HAVE ANY INFO OR EXPERIENCE, PLEASE!?
What I’ve heard of those prescribed Prozac it sounds a bit like my experience with Effexor XR: I felt less pressure to achieve everything at once and was had less trouble getting started on tasks. It might help your ADHD *via* easing your depression? Please do let your doc know what’s going on, he can’t properly treat you otherwise, ok? Vashti
Response:
My gp /doctor is suggesting prozac for me for depression. I am worried – I take dexedrine with ritalin (my doc does not know this – he think i take ritalin alone) (I think there’s an interaction – what should I do?)
If you have already started prozac, this may or may not be the interaction you expect. The more medication you use, the more interactions are possible… I have read some articles that prozac is used to treat ADHD in some people. This I find fascinating … perhaps affecting seretonin could be really helpful to some of use. DOES ANYONE HAVE ANY INFO OR EXPERIENCE, PLEASE!?
I got serotonin syndrom from lexapro. Which has about the same symptoms as ADHD only 10 times worse.
Response:
My gp /doctor is suggesting prozac for me for depression. I am worried – I take dexedrine with ritalin (my doc does not know this – he think i take ritalin alone) (I think there’s an interaction – what should I do?)
I think this is a pretty common combination actually. I have read some articles that prozac is used to treat ADHD in some people. This I find fascinating … perhaps affecting seretonin could be really helpful to some of use. DOES ANYONE HAVE ANY INFO OR EXPERIENCE, PLEASE!?
I have a friend with ADD who only takes Paxil, and feels it helps her ADD (it definitely helps her comorbid depression).
Response:
My gp /doctor is suggesting prozac for me for depression. I am worried – I take dexedrine with ritalin (my doc does not know this – he think i take ritalin alone)
I’m torn between being as harsh as the situation warrants, and holding back so as not to frighten you off. Do you realize how bad an idea it is if your doctor doesn’t know things that are affecting your health? Do I want to know how you’re obtaining dexadrine if you’re not getting it from your doctor? And, if you’re getting it from another doctor, do you realize both are likely to cut you off if they find out you’re hiding what meds you’re taking from any of your doctors? On the other hand, doctors *do* tend to trust other doctors’ judgment. If you tell one doctor that another has prescribed X, it’s generally okay. (I think there’s an interaction – what should I do?) I have read some articles that prozac is used to treat ADHD in some people. This I find fascinating … perhaps affecting seretonin could be really helpful to some of use. DOES ANYONE HAVE ANY INFO OR EXPERIENCE, PLEASE!?
SSRIs helped me manage my depression, but they always ended up leaving me numb, emotionally feeling. It was tricky for me to notice this; I wasn’t deep in the pits, but I wasn’t out of the pits, either. They’d work great at first, but then, slowly, the numbness would set in. I don’t know if this was caused by my particular chemistry, or if it has anything to do with the meds themselves, but I do know it’s something to watch for. Numbness isn’t a lot better than depression. — Everything I needed to know in life I learned in Kindergarten. Like: Beauty has a beginning, and an ending, but always lives beyond its span, in the hearts of many.
Response:
I don’t know if this was caused by my particular chemistry, or if it has anything to do with the meds themselves, but I do know it’s something to watch for. Numbness isn’t a lot better than depression. —
Thanks for the advice But if flouxetine (generic Prozac) *only* prevents the reuptake of Seretonin I can’t see it being a problem… (well that’s the theory anyway) (I dread to think what feeling ‘numb’ is like) I’ve heard the first two weeks are the most dangerous, because people that were suicidal (but didn’t have enough drive to do it) stop being lethargic and commit suicide. I used to take ecstasy, that was great – loved the seretonin rush (as well as the euphoria) . But I’m older now, and I don’t go clubbing anymore (e.g. Gatecrasher, Ministry of Sound, Fabric, Turnmills, Trance Energy).. I would never take an E on my own! To answer your question about dexedrine – I am using dexedrine that was left over from a previous doctor (I am not seeing more than one doctor). I really find that ritalin WITH dexedrine works wonders (as does another guy who posts on here using the nickname ‘Raving Loonie’ – who is not, infact a raving loony, but a perfectly sane and nice guy.. )
Response:
My gp /doctor is suggesting prozac for me for depression. I am worried – I take dexedrine with ritalin (my doc does not know this – he think i take ritalin alone) (I think there’s an interaction – what should I do?) I have read some articles that prozac is used to treat ADHD in some people. This I find fascinating … perhaps affecting seretonin could be really helpful to some of use. DOES ANYONE HAVE ANY INFO OR EXPERIENCE, PLEASE!?
UPDATE I said I was to start generic prozac and was really apprehensive. Well it’s day two, in the evening.. and I’m feeling really happy (OR perhaps it’s ‘normal’ which feels like happy to me as I’ve been depressed for so long) It’s like.. before I couldn’t motivate myself to move so that I could go to the kitchen and actually get food… (Background: some domestic violence & stuff in the family got me quite down…. nothing to do with ADHD) anyway.. it’s kind of weird being happy for no reason.. well, atleast I can finally get on with life..
Response:
Question:
Quinine ~ ?
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have read the full text of the study. While I do think it’s possible that standard therapeutic doses of amphetamine can cause neurotoxicity, this study does not provide conclusive evidence. Here’s why: 1. George Ricaurte (the lead researcher) is well known for his anti-drug ideology. He is not dishonest or a fraud, but I suspect that if the study showed a lack of neurotoxicity he would probably not publish it. 2. George Ricaurte took part in the following two studies: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&… http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&… Both studies contrast the neurotoxicity of amphetamine (Adderall) with the non-neurotoxicity of methylphenidate (Ritalin). First, these drugs are competitors in the ADD/ADHD market. Second, Dr. Ricaurte once spoke at a conference sponsored by the manufacturer of Ritalin. Third, the 1997 study listed above is one of the few studies (if any) he has published showing a lack of, rather than the presence of, neurotoxicity in the drug being studied. The fact that none this information was disclosed in the 2005 study is suspicious. 3. The choice of quinine solution as a drug delivery vehicle is puzzling. There is some evidence to suggest that it increases the effects and toxicity of amphetamines: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&… http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&… http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&… 4. The dosages were measured in base, rather than salt. This is misleading, because Adderall dosage is usually measured in salt. Thus, the dose that was given towards the end of the baboon studies, 1.0 mg/kg of base twice a day, translates to 1.6 mg/kg of salt twice a day. For a 100lb child that would be roughly 75mg of Adderall twice a day. Or 150mg of Adderall XR once per day. Even the smaller doses given in the squirrel monkey studies would translate to 90mg of Adderall XR once per day. This is 50% more than the maximum recommended daily dose. 5. Certain things were not made very clear. He alludes but does not specifically say that the amphetamine mixture used in the study is equivalent to Adderall. He should have pointed out the specific amounts of each substance in the mixture to clarify this. Adding to the confusion is the dose measurement in terms of base rather than salt. Does he mean the combined d and l-amphetamine bases or just the d-amphetamine base? Also, the exact amount of quinine ingested by the baboons is not given. It would help enourmously if all drug studies included a chart of CAS registry numbers and corresponding moles of the substance given to each test subject. 6. The third study on squirrel monkeys showed a far less pronounced neurotoxic effect despite doses that were similar to the baboon studies. No attempt was made to address this discrepancy. 7. The quoted therapeutic blood level of 100-150ng/ml is based on very limited evidence. These are the only studies referenced: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&… http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&… I don’t have access to the full texts, but I can see that one study used significantly larger doses than the other. Despite this, they both reported similar blood levels, which means that one of the studies is flawed, or that plasma level of amphetamine can vary so widely it is not a useful measure. Even without this evidence it is well known that plasma level is a poor way to compare drug exposure. He shouldn’t have drawn conclusions based on plasma levels. 8. Some of the measurements were done 2 weeks after stopping the amphetamine, others were done 4 weeks after. This is inconsistent, but no explanation is given. Furthermore, the term "damage" in the title of the study would be interpreted by most laymen as meaning "irreversible". Measuring the neurotoxicity only four weeks after the cessation of treatment does not tell us whether the damage is irreversible or not. In conclusion, this study is flawed and its results should be disregarded. I would like to see more research done on this subject as soon as possible. When interpreting future studies, bear in mind that the only parties likely to sponsor such research are pharmaceutical companies or anti-drug advocates.
George Ricaurte is pathetic RL
Response:
I have read the full text of the study. While I do think it’s possible that standard therapeutic doses of amphetamine can cause neurotoxicity, this study does not provide conclusive evidence. Here’s why: 1. George Ricaurte (the lead researcher) is well known for his anti-drug ideology. He is not dishonest or a fraud, but I suspect that if the study showed a lack of neurotoxicity he would probably not publish it. 2. George Ricaurte took part in the following two studies: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&… http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&… Both studies contrast the neurotoxicity of amphetamine (Adderall) with the non-neurotoxicity of methylphenidate (Ritalin). First, these drugs are competitors in the ADD/ADHD market. Second, Dr. Ricaurte once spoke at a conference sponsored by the manufacturer of Ritalin. Third, the 1997 study listed above is one of the few studies (if any) he has published showing a lack of, rather than the presence of, neurotoxicity in the drug being studied. The fact that none this information was disclosed in the 2005 study is suspicious. 3. The choice of quinine solution as a drug delivery vehicle is puzzling. There is some evidence to suggest that it increases the effects and toxicity of amphetamines: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&… http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&… http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&… 4. The dosages were measured in base, rather than salt. This is misleading, because Adderall dosage is usually measured in salt. Thus, the dose that was given towards the end of the baboon studies, 1.0 mg/kg of base twice a day, translates to 1.6 mg/kg of salt twice a day. For a 100lb child that would be roughly 75mg of Adderall twice a day. Or 150mg of Adderall XR once per day. Even the smaller doses given in the squirrel monkey studies would translate to 90mg of Adderall XR once per day. This is 50% more than the maximum recommended daily dose. 5. Certain things were not made very clear. He alludes but does not specifically say that the amphetamine mixture used in the study is equivalent to Adderall. He should have pointed out the specific amounts of each substance in the mixture to clarify this. Adding to the confusion is the dose measurement in terms of base rather than salt. Does he mean the combined d and l-amphetamine bases or just the d-amphetamine base? Also, the exact amount of quinine ingested by the baboons is not given. It would help enourmously if all drug studies included a chart of CAS registry numbers and corresponding moles of the substance given to each test subject. 6. The third study on squirrel monkeys showed a far less pronounced neurotoxic effect despite doses that were similar to the baboon studies. No attempt was made to address this discrepancy. 7. The quoted therapeutic blood level of 100-150ng/ml is based on very limited evidence. These are the only studies referenced: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&… http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&… I don’t have access to the full texts, but I can see that one study used significantly larger doses than the other. Despite this, they both reported similar blood levels, which means that one of the studies is flawed, or that plasma level of amphetamine can vary so widely it is not a useful measure. Even without this evidence it is well known that plasma level is a poor way to compare drug exposure. He shouldn’t have drawn conclusions based on plasma levels. 8. Some of the measurements were done 2 weeks after stopping the amphetamine, others were done 4 weeks after. This is inconsistent, but no explanation is given. Furthermore, the term "damage" in the title of the study would be interpreted by most laymen as meaning "irreversible". Measuring the neurotoxicity only four weeks after the cessation of treatment does not tell us whether the damage is irreversible or not. In conclusion, this study is flawed and its results should be disregarded. I would like to see more research done on this subject as soon as possible. When interpreting future studies, bear in mind that the only parties likely to sponsor such research are pharmaceutical companies or anti-drug advocates.
Response:
Question:
Philip ( only one *l* 
…as you are only one you. and we are only us wes (?) and i am only one me, and they are onl…. fuggit… can we just CUM TAGETHER, DADDY? ~tah tah tah tah tannnnnnnnnnnnnnnnya !
Response:
Totally disagree here with GAD. Generalized anxiety disorder is like being hyped up on adrenalin. No rationalization can undo that. Its great to know what happened in the past and what may have caused your adrenaline response to go off the wall and how to minimize it but Cognitive therapy will not replace the physical transference to a calmer state for some with gad.. Breathing techniques have never helped me, Cigs might do it although obviously in the long run its actually a stimulant and harmful , ritalin or drugs to counter hyperactivity and stress might help although I never tried em and life style changes might help. and do help but it takes everything out of you just to reduce stress . The only thing I might one day try is the anti hyper activity drugs that are oddly enough, stimiulants like ritalin although the name itself is enough to run from.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Its great to have this group here. I love the help and advice yall give. I tought I was the only person in the world that had Panic-Anxiety. Its comforting to know there are other people out there that can help. Panic-Anxiety is one mother of a disorder, and meds help, but sharing ones feeling about it is helpful too. And in the long run it’s very much recommended to do CBT (Cognitive Behavioural Therapy). If your anxiety/panic is somewhat stabilized by medication that’s the moment to start CBT which may even get you off meds in the future (and then again maybe it won’t but you’ll learn how to deal with anxiety from another point of view and as PAD is supposed to be both biological and psychological in nature the smart money is on treating then both. Moroever CBT is a *tool for living* which far transcends anxiety disorders). Read up on CBT at: www.cognitive therapy.com http://panicdisorder.about.com/od/therapycbt/ Philip ( only one *l*
Response:
me? it makes me sleep.
I broke out in hives(probably from the combination with Effexor) and found my brain to be eerily quiet, maybe that’s something I could get used to but it felt unpleasant at the time. Vashti
Response:
"start out with tylenol.. (it’s’ah "gateway" drug, yanno.)" LOL !
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You’ll know, one way or the other, if you take any of that, within about 3 hours. BAM, BABY ! … and then ya gotchur self in’ah whole heap of anuther mess. i KNOW this cuz my tat artist skeezed a couplah adderal from me… and lo’n b’hold? he didn’t have ADHD… and even tho he ripped my ass OFF, there i was givin’ tha boy xanax so his anxiety level would dissipate. ok… i can hear it now, i’m now’an illegal drug distributor… ::shakin’ head:: me? it makes me sleep. you? you’d be in’ah "catch 22 "…. and BEGGIN’ sumbody ta western union ya or email ya some benzos… count on it. but hey ! try it… this could be fun ! nah, i wouldn’t wish that on ya, Steve. start out with tylenol.. (it’s’ah "gateway" drug, yanno.) ~tanya
Response:
Man, I’ve been waiting this long to hear that you’d "consider" trying some kind of medicine and it has turned out to be speed that you chose? Are you fairly sure you have adult ADD/ADHD ?
LOL: at a normal starting dose Ritalin is hardly speed, more like a couple of cups of coffee in pill form but then *cleaner*.(Easier to dose than coffee too) Maybe you could get some psychometric testing done (like a couple of decent self-report scale questionnaires or something) ?
A thorough neuro-psych evaluation would work. I say this because you REALLY won’t like the way those drugs feel if you don’t genuinely have ADHD. They have a paradoxical calming/focusing effect on the ADHD people, but they don’t tend to calm anyone else, especially if they’re already stressed, for whatever reason.
It’s not so much that they have a paradoxical effect, stimulants aid focus for everyone… the reason they seem to calm ADHDers is that they can finally direct their focus/attention for a change. Some docs will use response to Ritalin as a diagnostic aid which is plainly silly since anyone using a stimulant will be more focussed. You’ll know, one way or the other, if you take any of that, within about 3 hours.
<g After about three hours you’ll likely have passed the peak and should be setting your alarm for the next dose, for me Ritalin worked for about 2.5 hours and then rebound chaos would happen. Vashti
Response:
You’ll know, one way or the other, if you take any of that, within about 3 hours.
BAM, BABY ! … and then ya gotchur self in’ah whole heap of anuther mess. i KNOW this cuz my tat artist skeezed a couplah adderal from me… and lo’n b’hold? he didn’t have ADHD… and even tho he ripped my ass OFF, there i was givin’ tha boy xanax so his anxiety level would dissipate. ok… i can hear it now, i’m now’an illegal drug distributor… ::shakin’ head:: me? it makes me sleep. you? you’d be in’ah "catch 22 "…. and BEGGIN’ sumbody ta western union ya or email ya some benzos… count on it. but hey ! try it… this could be fun ! nah, i wouldn’t wish that on ya, Steve. start out with tylenol.. (it’s’ah "gateway" drug, yanno.) ~tanya
Response:
Totally disagree here with GAD. Generalized anxiety disorder is like being hyped up on adrenalin. No rationalization can undo that.
well lord know belle ain’t rational, so maybe i can make sum sense uvit. i ain’t got GAD, but tha term "general" leads me to believe it’s not a specific event, a specific trigger, a specific situation, but a constant (or semi-constant) feeling of anxious periods, extensive. possibly triggered, i really dunno. in my head i liken it to a "balloon bursting" as opposed to the "balloon slowly losing air"… there’s a big difference, the events are mutually exclusive, as is the outcome. (a burst baloon becomes a once whole entity, now in many pieces, as opposed to the slow loss of air balloon becoming wilted and worn out.) ok.. that was dumb, but analogies come to me without forethought, i don’t think i had ta point that out tho. Its great to know what happened in the past and what may have caused your adrenaline response to go off the wall and how to minimize it but Cognitive therapy will not replace the physical transference to a calmer state for some with gad.. Breathing techniques have never helped me, Cigs might do it although obviously in the long run its actually a stimulant and harmful , ritalin or drugs to counter hyperactivity and stress might help although I never tried em and life style changes might help. and do help but it takes everything out of you just to reduce stress . The only thing I might one day try is the anti hyper activity drugs that are oddly enough, stimiulants like ritalin although the name itself is enough to run from.
<<<<<<<<<<gasp ya mean you’d CONSIDER medication? wow…… yer loosinin’ up’ah bit, there ! KUDOS ! ~tanya
Response:
Man, I’ve been waiting this long to hear that you’d "consider" trying some kind of medicine and it has turned out to be speed that you chose? Are you fairly sure you have adult ADD/ADHD ? Maybe you could get some psychometric testing done (like a couple of decent self-report scale questionnaires or something) ? I say this because you REALLY won’t like the way those drugs feel if you don’t genuinely have ADHD. They have a paradoxical calming/focusing effect on the ADHD people, but they don’t tend to calm anyone else, especially if they’re already stressed, for whatever reason. You’ll know, one way or the other, if you take any of that, within about 3 hours. G
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Totally disagree here with GAD. Generalized anxiety disorder is like being hyped up on adrenalin. No rationalization can undo that. Its great to know what happened in the past and what may have caused your adrenaline response to go off the wall and how to minimize it but Cognitive therapy will not replace the physical transference to a calmer state for some with gad.. Breathing techniques have never helped me, Cigs might do it although obviously in the long run its actually a stimulant and harmful , ritalin or drugs to counter hyperactivity and stress might help although I never tried em and life style changes might help. and do help but it takes everything out of you just to reduce stress . The only thing I might one day try is the anti hyper activity drugs that are oddly enough, stimiulants like ritalin although the name itself is enough to run from. Its great to have this group here. I love the help and advice yall give. I tought I was the only person in the world that had Panic-Anxiety. Its comforting to know there are other people out there that can help. Panic-Anxiety is one mother of a disorder, and meds help, but sharing ones feeling about it is helpful too. And in the long run it’s very much recommended to do CBT (Cognitive Behavioural Therapy). If your anxiety/panic is somewhat stabilized by medication that’s the moment to start CBT which may even get you off meds in the future (and then again maybe it won’t but you’ll learn how to deal with anxiety from another point of view and as PAD is supposed to be both biological and psychological in nature the smart money is on treating then both. Moroever CBT is a *tool for living* which far transcends anxiety disorders). Read up on CBT at: www.cognitive therapy.com http://panicdisorder.about.com/od/therapycbt/ Philip ( only one *l*
Response:
Its great to have this group here. I love the help and advice yall give. I tought I was the only person in the world that had Panic-Anxiety. Its comforting to know there are other people out there that can help. Panic-Anxiety is one mother of a disorder, and meds help, but sharing ones feeling about it is helpful too. Thank You Phillip
Response:
Its great to have this group here. I love the help and advice yall give. I tought I was the only person in the world that had Panic-Anxiety. Its comforting to know there are other people out there that can help. Panic-Anxiety is one mother of a disorder, and meds help, but sharing ones feeling about it is helpful too.
And in the long run it’s very much recommended to do CBT (Cognitive Behavioural Therapy). If your anxiety/panic is somewhat stabilized by medication that’s the moment to start CBT which may even get you off meds in the future (and then again maybe it won’t but you’ll learn how to deal with anxiety from another point of view and as PAD is supposed to be both biological and psychological in nature the smart money is on treating then both. Moroever CBT is a *tool for living* which far transcends anxiety disorders). Read up on CBT at: www.cognitive therapy.com http://panicdisorder.about.com/od/therapycbt/ Philip ( only one *l* – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –
Response:
Question:
Garry: I was not aiming anything specific at you or anyone really. I just get angry and start ranting like I know any better. Sometimes it can be thought provoking but I did not intend it to be hurtful or targeted toward you.
Yeah, I had the feeling that was the idea, I too have ended up posting and ending up talking about things that just come up in my mind instead of responding. Sometimes I come up with something interesting, that helps me a bit or that sheds a little light on a puzzle but often, I end up being flamed for getting off topic or rambling. There was another post in here somewhere discussing the paradoxical effect that drugs have on ADHDers. That word and meaning "Paradoxical" describes this post well. As I said I was not intending to target anyone specific I was just ranting but it is interesting how I can see clearly now that my tact was lost to some other part of me and you or others could take offense to my words.
Yeah, Fortunately, you spoke of things that I didn’t mention, it was a good clue to me and likely others, that it was a post about something having to do with you instead of me. I remember, I used to have this friend and his family in my life, he wasn’t really a friend, but a manipulator and emotional predator. This man or shall I call him a monster, suffered a lot of physical pain, and instead of learning the lesson of pain (To have compassion and empathy for others in pain.) he became cruel and took out his anger on others, and became the consumate hitler reincarnate and a foremost demoralizer. So I could really agree, that some folks that try to mold us into their standard with emotional abuse, need to be have a tattoo on their forehead that identifies them as monsters. I do have some deep anger issues right now but I am trying hard to deny them so I can lash out at some other poor soul. :) There are some things I seem to refuse to face. But part of me is tied to these things and I am afraid to let go and possibly lose myself completely.
/nods.
Response:
Garry: I was not aiming anything specific at you or anyone really. I just get angry and start ranting like I know any better. Sometimes it can be thought provoking but I did not intend it to be hurtful or targeted toward you. There was another post in here somewhere discussing the paradoxical effect that drugs have on ADHDers. That word and meaning "Paradoxical" describes this post well. As I said I was not intending to target anyone specific I was just ranting but it is interesting how I can see clearly now that my tact was lost to some other part of me and you or others could take offense to my words. I do have some deep anger issues right now but I am trying hard to deny them so I can lash out at some other poor soul. :) There are some things I seem to refuse to face. But part of me is tied to these things and I am afraid to let go and possibly lose myself completely.
Response:
The numbers I stated were just numbers that popped into my attention at the time – interesting how that happens. I did specifically state that I was not sure if they (the numbers) were real. I did not even begin to make it sound like I was quoting anyone. My mother was told that my brother had ADHD and he was even treated for it for about two or three months, according to my mother. It is a rather high percentage or probability that others in the family have the same thing isn’t it. I am the only one in my blood family that has ADHD as per the DSM iv and questionaire which I answered with the help of my wife. It was quite an eye opener for me scoring in the 90% probability for the memory and hyperactivity portions and 80% in the others. Afterward, I read many books and did some research into possible causes and some ways to help myself to deal with it and "overcome its affects." I accepted it rather easily since I was so desparate to determine why so many things had failed in my life. My wife "A" type refused to allow me to believe I was disabled by this and expected that I would somehow recover or snap out of it someday. Perhaps she thought that reading about it and popping pills would solve it. To her, when I explained how it works and how it affects me in my personal version of ADHD that is, I was just using it as a crutch or trying to get special attention or in some cases special get out of jail free cards so I could have other things easier. All I was doing was educating her as to what I had found, and how I could use some things to help me catch the bad habits before I did that terrible thing again, I was expressing to her that I was growing with it and adapting to it. I bought books and books of material in many cases the books had plenty of material for her to read so she could understand me better. She never read them. She continually misinterpreted everything as though I was just trying to take advantage. After 17 years of marriage and no reading of any books on her part she decided to leave me. I was diagnosed with ADHD two and a half years ago. She left me after two years of denial that I had the disorder even though she helped me answer the questions. My mother "denial type" never told me about my brother having been diagnosed with it. I dropped out of high school after the 9th grade. So after I failed five semesters in a row for my senior classes in college trying to be a BSEE. You would think a mother might just come out and say something along the lines "You might get yerself tested for ADHD or some learning disorder er somethin’." Maybe at least a hint you know? Nope! After failing so many times you begin to get a bit down you know. You get desperate. And, you get all over yourself for not being able to get-er-done. You know something is wrong but you have no idea what. I was seeing a psychologist for depression when she suggested taking home the questionaire. After learning about the possible genetics of it and all the traits etc. I diagnosed my whole family with ADHD. They are all in denial – not one went to be screened for it. From my perspective I was trying to help them understand themselves a bit. In the same way I told them about my high lipids and fatty liver condition I had five years earlier – my dad had a heart attack at 55 and lived with a congenital heart failure for another 20 then died of a stroke. When I questioned my mother about any of us kids having any nervous conditions – Ding ding ding ding ding ding ding ding I hit the jackpot. "Well…yes, your brother – the one most like me – was taking ritalin for ADD for a short while." She never bothered reading about it way back when and is still just as clueless and in denial. She had a real charming way about her. Her idea of nurture was food at the table for dinner – that was the only time I saw her, that I remember. The rest of the time the five of us were raising ourselves. I like to use the term "Raised by Wolves" I got through it. I continue to survive. Nancy, none of the stuff above is targeted toward you I am just telling a story is all. Same goes for any other mothers reading this. I would say this to all mothers and fathers in general. ADHD and your son or daughter having it is not about you. If you are wondering whether to provide drug treatment or strict scheduling etc. The answer is YES. Unless you have this disorder you have no idea of how it affects your son or daughter internally. Give them everything there is to give them in the form of drugs and learning skills to deal with their issues. They can decided for themsleves later if they want to be off of it. Also, it may take different forms as they grow so they may need a dynamic treatment for quite some time. Just by being here you are making light year leaps toward the right thing to do for your children – when compared to my parents anyway. Cheers to you for that.
Response:
Everytime I think of just doing what everyone else does and fake it; just doing what I have to to get the job or whatever, I close my eyes and roll them to the back as I deny its existence once again. I am not failing; life is failing me. I used to struggle and question myself – why was I this way or what caused me to do that? I made many changes to overcome some behaviors. I became tolerant and understanding. I made so many changes and questioned so many things that I became some one else. The balance must be true in all aspects of life no matter how knowledgeable. Being good must come with being bad. Tolerant and understanding in kind comes with spite and cold rejection. You cannot be wise without spatting off some bullshit either. If you want to get to heaven you’ve got to raise a little hell (I don’t know if that is true but the line in the song sounds good doesn’t it?). In the big equation of everything and nothing it only has to balance, there are no rules as to the type, scope, time, and weight. This, after many years of pondering, means to me, that the path to get there can be new and unique so long as there is an opposing path as well. Since you must include all that there ever was and all that will ever be, time is not a factor in your life, only in the big equation. So, you can choose anything, anyway, anytime, and any path. On the radar screen that is the universe we don’t even blip. Wasting the planet can be repeated a billion times and still nothing will be decried. No new rules will suddenly appear! No boundaries will be placed. No cage will keep. No one will be there to solve it. This particular rendering doesn’t suit me. Actually, the world doesn’t belong here. I would rather see it in a different light. -Standing next to a mountain, I’ll chop it down with the edge of my hand-
Response:
Well I was thinking – my first problem – that with so many people in the world getting or being diagnosed with ADHD. And, with statistics that say as much as 70% (not sure if that is a real number) of the population could have ADHD.
Whose statistics are those? Where did you get that 70% number? Nancy Unique, like everyone else
Response:
Is this condition/disorder/syndrome/state/disease/psychosis/pathology/ real? Could it be a nervous condition which is actually a natural resistance to being forced into a world that is exceedingly stressful? Isn’t it really that the world around us has sped up so fast and so large in scope that our minds just aren’t prepared from a anthropological perspective to handle the pressures and demands required to succeed in the new definition of success?
In hindsight, my son’s ADHD symptoms were apparent since birth. We just didn’t recognize them as being linked and having a "name" until he was a teenager. I don’t think that the demands of my son’s infancy and childhood were all that exceedingly stressful or pressure filled. Nancy Unique, like everyone else
Response:
Everyone always wants the gold at the end of the rainbow; the happy ending to the tragic story. Giving people hope, tricking them into beleiving something new will happen and everything will be fine, "just you wait and see!" That’s bullshit!
So, you are saying that there is no hope, that when I say that I found a way around one small portion of my problems with ADHD I am relating an hallucination, that did not happen or that I am lying outright. Thats pretty stinky stuff to to quote your last two words above. I don’t mean this in a flamey way. I totally agree tho, giving false hope is a rotton carrot to offer. Is my post reminding you of some bad experience with someone offering false hope, and you are pidgeonholing me with them or taking out your anger on me? You might note, that there is no site where I collect payment for what I related in this post. Since, its all free, the only cost is time to try it. I never said it would work for you, I merely said that something I did seemed to help. Isn’t relating what has helped us deal with ADHD or whatever it is, a large part of what this NG is all about? I’ve been on Adderall and Strattera. I am not sure either works any better than too much coffee and cocaine. But, one thing I am beginning to realize is that nothing will replace the dead or somehow crossed-up pathways in the brain.
The two meds above didn’t seem to do much for me as well. Straterra made me so sick to my stomach all the time, that I finally collapsed on the floor because my blood sugar plummeted. Maybe you don’t believe me. Once you realize you have ADHD or some other nervous system disorder – loss of brain matter included – there is no pill or mechanism that will replace it. You may as well develop a self image of a disabled person. You may as well think of it just the same as not having a limb or sliced nerve in your leg or whatever. All the pills men and all the pills horses aint gonna ever put you back together again.
That is what I was taught as well but I am not talking about reviving dead pathways, I am talking about routing around them. Stroke victims go to physical therapy to re-learn motor skills by practicing which the doctors say works because it teaches non-damaged areas of the brain to take over. There is also recent research that was mentioned in a book named "Bipolar a new hope." that mentioned that they found that some meds used to treat it actually caused regrowth, and regeneration, even replacement of dead neurons. I felt a bit astonished about it. You are not an egg, you are a human being, you are smarter than an egg in a fairy story that falls off a wall. Don’t believe in false hopes, but neither give up all hope. Both extremes are quite harmful. The first is fantasy, the other is defeatist. The sooner you realize that the sooner you will make changes in your life that you can deal with and quit trying to compete with Johnsons. Get your head out of the fake and into the real. At some point you will realize that you made a big mistake trying to change your life to follow everyone else.
I find this slightly demeaning that you imply that I am out of touch with reality, but life is a learning experience, what we accept as reality right now, will likely be differerent from what we will believe ten years down the road, so I guess being told I am wrong isn’t so bad. There is nobody else I am trying to follow. What I try to conform to and fail a lot is trying to be calm, rid myself of arrogance, to accept the rotton, and try to be at peace with others and do what I think is right. If you have some one in your life that expects you to adapt and keep up – lose them – you might as well be throwing money into a wishing well.
Oh far worse than that. Being determined to succeed, when the goal is beyond reach, is just a short path to defeat. It comes down to you vs. the world. Learn how to make your own way for you. Once you get that rhythm going your happiness will follow in the same lines.
Good advice. You don’t have to listen of course but changing and adapting to some other persons image or view of the perfect life – or life adapted for you – is not anywhere close to happiness. Never ever compromise your happiness or your dreams for some one else; anything less is dellusional.
Who is this other person you are talking about. Now, I’m beginning to wonder if you are talking about me at all, or talking about someone who is demanding things from you. Of course you need to have realistic goals for your self too but you won’t know what those are until you bang your head against the wall a few hundred times. Then you will begin to understand what you can’t have.
Reminds me of my favorite rejoinder to folks who would say "It’s easy! Just pay attention!" Oh gods, that would fry my hide when I heard that, because it implies that the only reason I have not accomplished what they are telling me is easy is because I’m stupid!" My rejoinder is to say "In order to start paying attention, I have to notice I’m not paying attention, and I’ve found it like trying to notice that I am unconscious. Have you had any success in this area?" that usually shuts em up, or often opens up their eyes to how utterly crummy and difficult having ADHD is. You sound, hurt, you sound like you’ve given up hope to some extent. Perhaps you have found serenity, contentment and happiness in choosing to accept your current condition and giving up any hope of improvement. If this works for you than more power to you. Many have said, that happiness lies in being content with what is, instead of what may be. Cheers.
Response:
Well I was thinking – my first problem – that with so many people in the world getting or being diagnosed with ADHD. And, with statistics that say as much as 70% (not sure if that is a real number) of the population could have ADHD. And, with the diagnoses of such a thing being relatively new in the Medical world. Is this condition/disorder/syndrome/state/disease/psychosis/pathology/ real? Could it be a nervous condition which is actually a natural resistance to being forced into a world that is exceedingly stressful? Isn’t it really that the world around us has sped up so fast and so large in scope that our minds just aren’t prepared from a anthropological perspective to handle the pressures and demands required to succeed in the new definition of success? Could we be reacting to our present and our future outlook as it is so bleak and overwhelmingly unnatural? In essense is ADHD a biological "fatal error" that just hasn’t been rebooted yet? Instead we just keep plowing through – denying our real wants and our freedoms – popping pills, glitch after glitch until we are deep in the mud bog. I am not a beleiver in the old saying "If you can’t beat ‘em join ‘em!" I am far to self aware and my world is not what it was when it was first presented to me for me to allow myself to stoop to such lows. No, I do not like what I see. No, I will not become what you want me to be. No, you cannot force me. I need a much more natural rhythm. I need a place with more space to breathe and less demand to produce. Give me a guitar and I will filter the noise into a pleasing melody. Give me some time and I will illustrate the horizon. Give me an outlet. Provide me some personal growth. Let me live… Having understood the request and knowing the outcome for doing so, I just say no. Place me in the reject bin. I’d rather die knowing I made the only choice afforded to me than to try to be happy. Trying to do anything sucks because trying is all you can do – you never acheive anything but the try. At least with giving up I know I actually acheived it – my one personal accomplishment – give up. I did that! That…MF…is mine…I own it. Well, okay I asked some questions and I expressed some feelings and opinions then I gave up. X
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Well I was thinking – my first problem – that with so many people in the world getting or being diagnosed with ADHD. And, with statistics that say as much as 70% (not sure if that is a real number) of the population could have ADHD. And, with the diagnoses of such a thing being relatively new in the Medical world. Is this condition/disorder/syndrome/state/disease/psychosis/pathology/ real? Could it be a nervous condition which is actually a natural resistance to being forced into a world that is exceedingly stressful? Isn’t it really that the world around us has sped up so fast and so large in scope that our minds just aren’t prepared from a anthropological perspective to handle the pressures and demands required to succeed in the new definition of success? Could we be reacting to our present and our future outlook as it is so bleak and overwhelmingly unnatural? In essense is ADHD a biological "fatal error" that just hasn’t been rebooted yet? Instead we just keep plowing through – denying our real wants and our freedoms – popping pills, glitch after glitch until we are deep in the mud bog. I am not a beleiver in the old saying "If you can’t beat ‘em join ‘em!" I am far to self aware and my world is not what it was when it was first presented to me for me to allow myself to stoop to such lows. No, I do not like what I see. No, I will not become what you want me to be. No, you cannot force me. I need a much more natural rhythm. I need a place with more space to breathe and less demand to produce. Give me a guitar and I will filter the noise into a pleasing melody. Give me some time and I will illustrate the horizon. Give me an outlet. Provide me some personal growth. Let me live… Having understood the request and knowing the outcome for doing so, I just say no. Place me in the reject bin. I’d rather die knowing I made the only choice afforded to me than to try to be happy. Trying to do anything sucks because trying is all you can do – you never acheive anything but the try. At least with giving up I know I actually acheived it – my one personal accomplishment – give up. I did that! That…MF…is mine…I own it. Well, okay I asked some questions and I expressed some feelings and opinions then I gave up. X
There probably isn’t a single person who has ADHD or been told they have it, who has not asked or even beaten themselves up with such questions. Personally, it doesn’t matter to me if it is real or not. Its like this — I go through the various alleys in my life, and suddenly, something invisible about the size of a garbage truck mentally slams into me and knocks my mind about 30 feet way leaving me in a bloody mental heap, broken, bleeding, bruised and feeling utterly defeated. I’ve lost count of how many times that this has happened, that I could have been blasted back anywhere between 3000 to 100,000 times for all I know. All that matters to me, is that something slammed me, crushed me and left me in a bloody heap. I don’t care if nobody believes it exists, because I have the gaping wounds on my psyche to prove it. I laugh at the scoffer! Whether you believe it or not, is ok with me, because I too, suspect that ADHD has become the latest fad diagnosis, the latest handy "Out" for the doctor who wants to get done, charge his or her patient and then move on, who wants to do the quick fix instead of looking further. I think there is something.wrong, because of the outrageous severity of it. Like nobody I have ever heard of, instead of forgetting things and then remembering later, I would forget things and never remember. This was not forgetting, this was amnesia!!! When I was a kid, I had a security blanket, and I was like Linus in the peanuts cartoon – could not live a moment without my blanket. One day, I forgot I had a blanket, it vanished out of my world for an hour, then I remembered, then I immediately forgot I forgot, till over 40 years later, I suddenly remembered. No effect exists without a cause, and a person does not forget huge and important parts of their lives permanently or for many decades for no reason. This is NOT normal. I think you are on the right track about giving up. Struggling, by it’s very definition is disruptive. Give you a simile I will … I had a horrible head injury that obliterated many neural pathways to my memory. For years, I would get into a titanic struggle with my memory trying to remember something, over dead pathways. The result was always the same. I lost the struggle, I would scramble the memory, and fry things even more in the storm of violent efforts to recall. To this day I have memories of being in two places at the same time that were miles apart!! I have gaps in my memory created when the fight to recall, destroyed the memory utterly. All those memories gone, likely forever. One day someone said stop fighting, stop struggling and just concentrate, without effort on the intention of remembering, and your subconscious will respond and fetch it for you. It worked!! Normally, I would either recall immediately, or struggle and never recall, but for the first time in 40 years, I recalled something, without the titanic struggle. Its slower than molasses but it works. Applying the same thing to life, and other areas can get the same or similar results.
Response:
Everyone always wants the gold at the end of the rainbow; the happy ending to the tragic story. Giving people hope, tricking them into beleiving something new will happen and everything will be fine, "just you wait and see!" That’s bullshit! I’ve been on Adderall and Strattera. I am not sure either works any better than too much coffee and cocaine. But, one thing I am beginning to realize is that nothing will replace the dead or somehow crossed-up pathways in the brain. Once you realize you have ADHD or some other nervous system disorder – loss of brain matter included – there is no pill or mechanism that will replace it. You may as well develop a self image of a disabled person. You may as well think of it just the same as not having a limb or sliced nerve in your leg or whatever. All the pills men and all the pills horses aint gonna ever put you back together again. The sooner you realize that the sooner you will make changes in your life that you can deal with and quit trying to compete with Johnsons. Get your head out of the fake and into the real. At some point you will realize that you made a big mistake trying to change your life to follow everyone else. If you have some one in your life that expects you to adapt and keep up – lose them – you might as well be throwing money into a wishing well. It comes down to you vs. the world. Learn how to make your own way for you. Once you get that rhythm going your happiness will follow in the same lines. You don’t have to listen of course but changing and adapting to some other persons image or view of the perfect life – or life adapted for you – is not anywhere close to happiness. Never ever compromise your happiness or your dreams for some one else; anything less is dellusional. Of course you need to have realistic goals for your self too but you won’t know what those are until you bang your head against the wall a few hundred times. Then you will begin to understand what you can’t have.
Response:
Fair enough… but did you ever hear the Buddhist maxim that life is pain? It is… until we learn to overcome that pain, until we learn to love, to feel compassion and happiness and even joy, despite the pain that life encompasses. It’s not easy to find out how to do this because, again, life is pain. But there is an answer, and there is a path you can find, if you seek it long enough and have enough faith that you can find it. That faith… that’s important, because if you don’t really think that your path is out there, you’ll give up trying to find it when the going gets too hard.
These are beautiful words, John, and probably sum up the stumbling I’ve done over the years. — Ann e-mail address is not checked
Response:
Well I was thinking – my first problem – that with so many people in the world getting or being diagnosed with ADHD. And, with statistics that say as much as 70% (not sure if that is a real number) of the population could have ADHD. And, with the diagnoses of such a thing being relatively new in the Medical world.
Well, "relatively new" is one of those wonderful terms that can mean anything or nothing. It’s been noticed for a long time. The highest estimates of folks with ADHD that I’ve seen are about 10%. I’m not as current on the literature as I once was, but even the 10% strikes me as including people who are on the border. Is this condition/disorder/syndrome/state/disease/psychosis/pathology/ real?
Yes. Could it be a nervous condition which is actually a natural resistance to being forced into a world that is exceedingly stressful?
No. The world *is* exceedingly stressful, but I’m betting that part of the stresses you perceive come from having ADHD. This is one of the hardest things from the inside of having a problem… understanding normal. I was 27 before I realized that ordinary people could be happy, without being caught by surprise, that it wasn’t normal to go through the day in a sleepy haze. I had always wondered how people could cheerfully go *anywhere* for *eight full hours* and not have nightmares about keeping themselves awake, aware, and alert. I have inattentive ADHD; it could have been mistaken for narcolepsy. Isn’t it really that the world around us has sped up so fast and so large in scope that our minds just aren’t prepared from a anthropological perspective to handle the pressures and demands required to succeed in the new definition of success? Could we be reacting to our present and our future outlook as it is so bleak and overwhelmingly unnatural? In essense is ADHD a biological "fatal error" that just hasn’t been rebooted yet? Instead we just keep plowing through – denying our real wants and our freedoms – popping pills, glitch after glitch until we are deep in the mud bog.
I sympathize with what you’re saying. The thing is, the most important part of my life is understanding me, and the universe, and my place in it. I’m living a very laid back life, because I’m between jobs. Without Adderall, I can’t accomplish the things that *I* want to, the things that are important to *me*. I can’t meditate; I can’t settle down and get writing done; I can’t keep a good ponder going for long enough to reach the end. Sometimes, sure, I’m having a good day and I can meditate without adderall, write without it, and ponder deeply for a long time… but those good days are too few and far between. I am not a beleiver in the old saying "If you can’t beat ‘em join ‘em!" I am far to self aware and my world is not what it was when it was first presented to me for me to allow myself to stoop to such lows. No, I do not like what I see. No, I will not become what you want me to be. No, you cannot force me. I need a much more natural rhythm. I need a place with more space to breathe and less demand to produce. Give me a guitar and I will filter the noise into a pleasing melody. Give me some time and I will illustrate the horizon. Give me an outlet. Provide me some personal growth. Let me live…
Fair enough… but did you ever hear the Buddhist maxim that life is pain? It is… until we learn to overcome that pain, until we learn to love, to feel compassion and happiness and even joy, despite the pain that life encompasses. It’s not easy to find out how to do this because, again, life is pain. But there is an answer, and there is a path you can find, if you seek it long enough and have enough faith that you can find it. That faith… that’s important, because if you don’t really think that your path is out there, you’ll give up trying to find it when the going gets too hard. Of course, it could be that I’m talking bullshit, that there *is* no path. It could be that you’ll struggle to find a path that will make you happy in vain. The question you’d have to ask yourself is if you’d really be happier, not searching for the path, just because I might be wrong about its existence. John Palmer — Everything I needed to know in life I learned in Kindergarten. Like: Beauty has a beginning, and an ending, but always lives beyond its span, in the hearts of many.
Response:
Question:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – In article There are some studies that show many kids with ADHD did just as well and had fewer side effects when using a placebo in conjunction with half as much of their normal ADHD medicine. So how can you say they don’t work? That means they didn’t have AD[H]D to begin with. — A few minutes ago I attempted to give a flying fsck, but the best I could do was to watch it skitter across the floor. (Anthony de Boer)
Response:
In article There are some studies that show many kids with ADHD did just as well and had fewer side effects when using a placebo in conjunction with half as much of their normal ADHD medicine. So how can you say they don’t work? That means they didn’t have AD[H]D to begin with.
Not necessarily, it may mean that they were overmedicated to begin with and reducing the dose _without_ the placebo would have worked as well. — –John to email, dial "usenet" and validate (was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
Response:
There are some studies that show many kids with ADHD did just as well and had fewer side effects when using a placebo in conjunction with half as much of their normal ADHD medicine. So how can you say they don’t work?
If you send me a check I’ll send you some placebos. They work great! _g
Response:
The 15mg yellow placebos are the best IMO!
You should try the new extra strength placebos that I bought from an email I got last month… — Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L To reply, there’s no internet on Mars (yet)! <<< Kaplow Klips & Baffle: http://nira-rocketry.org/Document/MayJun00.pdf www.encompasserve.org/~kaplow_r/ www.nira-rocketry.org www.nar.org It had become an universal and almost uncontroverted position in the several States, that the purposes of society do not require a surrender of all our rights to our ordinary governors; that there are certain portions of right not necessary to enable them to carry on an effective government, and which experience has nevertheless proved they will be constantly encroaching on, if submitted to them; that there are also certain fences which experience has proved peculiarly efficacious against wrong, and rarely obstructive of right, which yet the governing powers have ever shown a disposition to weaken and remove. Of the first kind, for instance, is freedom of religion; of the second, trial by jury, habeas corpus laws, free presses. — Thomas Jefferson
Response:
Do you believe there are alternate treatments for ADHD that are effective in controlling behaviors other that Ritalin? Such as placebos or behavioral conditioning?
I recall that the NIMH statement on ADHD endorses certain behavioral conditioning techniques. And they endorse the meds that have FDA approval. Other than that, you can chase the more recent research findings.
Response:
The 15mg yellow placebos are the best IMO! You should try the new extra strength placebos that I bought from an email I got last month…
Be careful you don’t overmedicate with those. You might experience some nasty side effects, including placebo psychosis. Nancy Unique, like everyone else
Response:
In article There are some studies that show many kids with ADHD did just as well and had fewer side effects when using a placebo in conjunction with half as much of their normal ADHD medicine. So how can you say they don’t work? That means they didn’t have AD[H]D to begin with. Not necessarily, it may mean that they were overmedicated to begin with and reducing the dose _without_ the placebo would have worked as well.
The placebo effect for ADHD has an effect size of 0.3: http://users.rcn.com/peregrin.enteract/add/swansn.txt Ritalin has a effect size of 0.8 on top of the placebo effect. So you could cut the Ritalin dose till the effect size was only 0.5 and take up the slack with a placebo. But the placebo effect as measured can be an effect of the whole experimental setup, so could well go away if you just tried it at home. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – — –John to email, dial "usenet" and validate (was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – In article There are some studies that show many kids with ADHD did just as well and had fewer side effects when using a placebo in conjunction with half as much of their normal ADHD medicine. So how can you say they don’t work? That means they didn’t have AD[H]D to begin with. Not necessarily, it may mean that they were overmedicated to begin with and reducing the dose _without_ the placebo would have worked as well.
There *was* a control group of children whose medication dosage was reduced without receiving the placebo, and according the the study results, those controls didn’t experience the same ability to manage their ADHD symptoms as the children receiving the placebo. Here’s the webmd article about the study: http://aolsvc.health.webmd.aol.com/content/article/64/72381.htm I did a quick search of PubMed and Google Scholar to look for the actual study, but couldn’t find a published version. Don’t know if that means the study wasn’t published in a peer reviewed journal or if my search wasn’t adequate. Nancy Unique, like everyone else
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – In article There are some studies that show many kids with ADHD did just as well and had fewer side effects when using a placebo in conjunction with half as much of their normal ADHD medicine. So how can you say they don’t work? That means they didn’t have AD[H]D to begin with. Not necessarily, it may mean that they were overmedicated to begin with and reducing the dose _without_ the placebo would have worked as well. There *was* a control group of children whose medication dosage was reduced without receiving the placebo, and according the the study results, those controls didn’t experience the same ability to manage their ADHD symptoms as the children receiving the placebo. Here’s the webmd article about the study: http://aolsvc.health.webmd.aol.com/content/article/64/72381.htm I did a quick search of PubMed and Google Scholar to look for the actual study, but couldn’t find a published version. Don’t know if that means the study wasn’t published in a peer reviewed journal or if my search wasn’t adequate.
It was a talk. And on page 2 it says "Megerian says that while the study results suggest improvement with placebo, the results were not statistically significant." Could be random chance. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Nancy Unique, like everyone else
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – In article There are some studies that show many kids with ADHD did just as well and had fewer side effects when using a placebo in conjunction with half as much of their normal ADHD medicine. So how can you say they don’t work? That means they didn’t have AD[H]D to begin with. Not necessarily, it may mean that they were overmedicated to begin with and reducing the dose _without_ the placebo would have worked as well. There *was* a control group of children whose medication dosage was reduced without receiving the placebo, and according the the study results, those controls didn’t experience the same ability to manage their ADHD symptoms as the children receiving the placebo. Here’s the webmd article about the study: http://aolsvc.health.webmd.aol.com/content/article/64/72381.htm I did a quick search of PubMed and Google Scholar to look for the actual study, but couldn’t find a published version. Don’t know if that means the study wasn’t published in a peer reviewed journal or if my search wasn’t adequate. It was a talk. And on page 2 it says "Megerian says that while the study results suggest improvement with placebo, the results were not statistically significant." Could be random chance. Nancy Unique, like everyone else
It could be the "ritual effect". The process of taking the dummy drug is a ritual that prepares the individual for study or other forms of focused activity. That’s why decaf coffee can have some benefits for someone that is cutting down on caffeine intake. The brain’s reward system may even produce an increase the levels of dopamine in response to the ritual. _g
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – In article There are some studies that show many kids with ADHD did just as well and had fewer side effects when using a placebo in conjunction with half as much of their normal ADHD medicine. So how can you say they don’t work? That means they didn’t have AD[H]D to begin with. Not necessarily, it may mean that they were overmedicated to begin with and reducing the dose _without_ the placebo would have worked as well. There *was* a control group of children whose medication dosage was reduced without receiving the placebo, and according the the study results, those controls didn’t experience the same ability to manage their ADHD symptoms as the children receiving the placebo. Here’s the webmd article about the study: http://aolsvc.health.webmd.aol.com/content/article/64/72381.htm I did a quick search of PubMed and Google Scholar to look for the actual study, but couldn’t find a published version. Don’t know if that means the study wasn’t published in a peer reviewed journal or if my search wasn’t adequate. It was a talk. And on page 2 it says "Megerian says that while the study results suggest improvement with placebo, the results were not statistically significant." Could be random chance.
I *know* the article was based on a oral presentation of the results at a professional meeting, but it’s been my experience that when that occurs, often the study is also published, eventually. But the presentation was made in 2003, and still no published study. You are right about the results perhaps being due to "random chance," especially given that only 26 children were studied. More study is obviously needed. Nancy Unique, like everyone else
Response:
Here’s a theory: Part of AD(H)D is an anxiety feedback loop: you feel you’re screwng up, you don’t know why, can’t control it, that produces stress, and one characteristic of AD(H)D is stress intolerance – so you screw up more. The mere fact that you believe you are being treated is a relief, and damps down that feedback loop. The underlying AD(H)D is still there. It would be interesting to see a comparison of placebo versus Valium (only the placebo group being told they are being treated for ADHD)
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – In article There are some studies that show many kids with ADHD did just as well and had fewer side effects when using a placebo in conjunction with half as much of their normal ADHD medicine. So how can you say they don’t work? That means they didn’t have AD[H]D to begin with. Not necessarily, it may mean that they were overmedicated to begin with and reducing the dose _without_ the placebo would have worked as well. There *was* a control group of children whose medication dosage was reduced without receiving the placebo, and according the the study results, those controls didn’t experience the same ability to manage their ADHD symptoms as the children receiving the placebo. Here’s the webmd article about the study: http://aolsvc.health.webmd.aol.com/content/article/64/72381.htm I did a quick search of PubMed and Google Scholar to look for the actual study, but couldn’t find a published version. Don’t know if that means the study wasn’t published in a peer reviewed journal or if my search wasn’t adequate. Nancy Unique, like everyone else
Response:
There are some studies that show many kids with ADHD did just as well and had fewer side effects when using a placebo in conjunction with half as much of their normal ADHD medicine. So how can you say they don’t work?
First you ask if they work, then you tell us that they do work. Also, the post you made to start this thread was your first to usenet. Although I am not calling you a troll, you have engaged in a pattern which makes me wonder what else you may have up your keyboard.
Response:
In article There are some studies that show many kids with ADHD did just as well and had fewer side effects when using a placebo in conjunction with half as much of their normal ADHD medicine. So how can you say they don’t work? That means they didn’t have AD[H]D to begin with.
Meds don’t help everyone, and more is not necessarily better. It wouldn’t surprise me to find that a bunch of kids were started on a dose that was higher than they needed, and cutting their dose didn’t reduce the improvement. Response to medication is *never* proof that a person has ADHD nor is a lack of response proof that a person doesn’t have ADHD. — Everything I needed to know in life I learned in Kindergarten. Like: Beauty has a beginning, and an ending, but always lives beyond its span, in the hearts of many.
Response:
Meds don’t help everyone, and more is not necessarily better. It wouldn’t surprise me to find that a bunch of kids were started on a dose that was higher than they needed, and cutting their dose didn’t reduce the improvement. Response to medication is *never* proof that a person has ADHD nor is a lack of response proof that a person doesn’t have ADHD.
Hm. Correction provisionally accepted. I’m hardly one to talk. My dosage of desipramine, I’ve been told, is below theraputic levels. That doesn’t change it from being effective. But the point of a placebo is that it doesn’t do anything that doesn’t start in the mind, and I don’t mean "mental". — A few minutes ago I attempted to give a flying fsck, but the best I could do was to watch it skitter across the floor. (Anthony de Boer)
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – In article There are some studies that show many kids with ADHD did just as well and had fewer side effects when using a placebo in conjunction with half as much of their normal ADHD medicine. So how can you say they don’t work? That means they didn’t have AD[H]D to begin with. Meds don’t help everyone, and more is not necessarily better. It wouldn’t surprise me to find that a bunch of kids were started on a dose that was higher than they needed, and cutting their dose didn’t reduce the improvement. Response to medication is *never* proof that a person has ADHD nor is a lack of response proof that a person doesn’t have ADHD.
Well put, John.
Response:
yeah…i dont think so.
Response:
Do you believe there are alternate treatments for ADHD that are effective in controlling behaviors other that Ritalin? Such as placebos or behavioral conditioning?
Response:
In article Do you believe there are alternate treatments for ADHD that are effective in controlling behaviors other that Ritalin?
There are other meds which aren’t stimulants. — A few minutes ago I attempted to give a flying fsck, but the best I could do was to watch it skitter across the floor. (Anthony de Boer)
Response:
Do you believe there are alternate treatments for ADHD that are effective in controlling behaviors other that Ritalin?
Why would you mention only one medication that is used to treat AD/HD? There are numerous others, and, the use of straight Ritalin is on the decline because of the other meds. Such as placebos or behavioral conditioning?
Placebos do not treat anything. As for behavioral contidtioning, it may work, but without meds, you might as well chase moths.
Response:
Placebos are fantastic for treating ADD/ADHD. I usually swallow down a handful in the morning and a few more in the afternoon to help me get through the day. The 15mg yellow placebos are the best IMO! Placebo suppositories are also very good.
Response:
Placebo suppositories are also very good.
Aw, you just like sticking things in your butt. — A few minutes ago I attempted to give a flying fsck, but the best I could do was to watch it skitter across the floor. (Anthony de Boer)
Response:
Placebos are fantastic for treating ADD/ADHD. I usually swallow down a handful in the morning and a few more in the afternoon to help me get through the day. The 15mg yellow placebos are the best IMO! Placebo suppositories are also very good.
My favorite placebo comes in the pretty, young and voluptuous variety with a really sexy voice, too! As for sticking them up my butt? Well, … RL
Response:
There are some studies that show many kids with ADHD did just as well and had fewer side effects when using a placebo in conjunction with half as much of their normal ADHD medicine. So how can you say they don’t work?
Response:
In article There are some studies that show many kids with ADHD did just as well and had fewer side effects when using a placebo in conjunction with half as much of their normal ADHD medicine. So how can you say they don’t work?
That means they didn’t have AD[H]D to begin with. — A few minutes ago I attempted to give a flying fsck, but the best I could do was to watch it skitter across the floor. (Anthony de Boer)
Response:
Previous page